Tire rotation

[ScubaDadMiami]

The C-MAX is so cheap to drive that I am willing to blow the money to get The Works (an oil change and tire rotation) at the midpoint for regularly scheduled maintenance (5,000, 15,000, 25,000. . .), I've decided.  Either it will give me good tire life with even wear, or I'll waste a little money that I didn't need to spend. 

Edited December 28, 2013 by ScubaDadMiami

[wab]

Not rotating your tires is the best way to figure out that you need an alignment.

AT LEAST it was for a friend.

He missed his first rotation on his new civic, came back from a long vacation with 2 wore out tires.

They tried to deny warranty

(because he hadn’t rotated which would have moved the wearing tires to the front)

till he found a TSB about some (his) civics needing some rear suspension parts replaced, he got new tires, new parts and a 4 wheel alignment.

 

Which brings me to our cmax, IT DEFINITELY needs a front end alignment.

[fbov]

I generally replace my tires way before they officially need replacement.  The performance at 50% tread is not that great...

This is both very good advice, and completely false... depending on your goal.

 

If your goal is the best snow traction and hydroplaning resistance, replacing tires at 50% tread depth (about 2/3 of usable tread) makes sense. But that's where it ends.

 

Anyone remember the Bridgestone commercials where they compared new tires with half-worn tires to show they made a quality product? The premise was that the new tire's performance was superior to the worn tire, and if you bought into that premise, they had you hook, line and sinker. The premise is false in all but the few situations listed above.

 

Passenger car tires must be shaved to 1/2 tread depth before you stress their traction limits or you will "chunk" your tire. Think in terms of a tread block being ripped out of the tire, down to the cord. Instant trash. All it takes is one hot lap around a race track and you'll need a new set of tires, despite full tread. When I was racing, I had a tire shaver, and used it on my competition tires until vendors like Tire Rack realized there was an untapped market for shaved competition tires. At SCCA Solo II Nationals, the Goodrich truck had shavers set up next to their mounting/balancing equipment as every tire sold needed all three.

 

But competition isn't why we bought our C-Maxes, and in day-to-day driving, hydroplaning resistance trumps ultimate cornering force. However, that doesn't change the tire's performance profile vs. tread depth; worn tires have some advantages!

 

Have fun,

Frank

[fflowers]

I've rotated tires twice now (per pattern in the manual) by jacking the front end onto my two jack stands and then placing the floor jack on the structural member between the rear wheels, where the differential would be on an old car.  This gets all four wheels up at the same time.  I see no damage on this center member, but am having second thoughts about using it.  Should I be jacking each rear wheel separately at the indicated positions, or is it safe to use the center point and save a little time?

[JAZ]

Wish I knew, but you're a lot more gutsy than me...

[drdiesel1]

I've rotated tires twice now (per pattern in the manual) by jacking the front end onto my two jack stands and then placing the floor jack on the structural member between the rear wheels, where the differential would be on an old car.  This gets all four wheels up at the same time.  I see no damage on this center member, but am having second thoughts about using it.  Should I be jacking each rear wheel separately at the indicated positions, or is it safe to use the center point and save a little time?

As long as you're using a spot that won't bend anything, you're good. I use it when not using a lift. No problem.

If you're worried about it, use a wood block between the jacks lift plate and the cross-member contact points.

[SPL Tech]

I've had bad luck with tires in my last several vehicles, always from uneven wear.  The tires start to sound like snow tires.  I've had the alignment re-done, had suspension overhauled, and I've done rotations pretty regularly.  Every time I tried to make warranty claims, they always tell me that it doesn't cover uneven wear.  Mostly, I am told that I need to rotate  more often.

 

I got great tires from Costco, and I believe that they called for rotation at 6,000 miles, but I had the same issues there.  A mechanic recently told me that I should rotate every 3,000 miles, which sounds ridiculous to me.

 

The point is, I want to get it right on this car.  Is it because I was driving SUVs? (The only car I recall not having issues was a Lexus that was not an SUV style.)  Should I start paying for tire rotations before the scheduled 10,000 mile service?

 

I am not doing any kind of driving that should be the cause.

Next time tell them you rotate every 2000 miles and they wont use that as an excuse. Something does sound off. It's not hard to align a vehicle. With modern alignment machines, it's completely common to determine the exact alignment, toe and camber of your axles. No guessing "it looks straight" either it is or it is not, the machine will say either way. Not sure why they are having so much trouble. Maybe the toe, camber or alignment is changing over time. That is, they set it right, and then something happens and it's misaligned later.

[SPL Tech]

Also, I dont recommend a 10k rotation either. My VW called for 10k, and I could never get the rated lifespan of the tires, not even by running them until the belt was showing.

[fflowers]

As long as you're using a spot that won't bend anything, you're good. I use it when not using a lift. No problem.

If you're worried about it, use a wood block between the jacks lift plate and the cross-member contact points.

Thanks, drdiesel1, I'll take your advice and start using a wooden block for added protection.  Nice to know at least one other person has tried this point.

[pureenergi]

I just rotated tires with the criss-cross rear to front pattern by only lifting 2 wheels at a  time in 3 steps.  This is the first and probably only time I will do it, as Costco will be selling me their Michelin Energy Savers when their next sale rolls around in a couple months and rotating for me.

 

1.  Jack up one side, move front to rear and rear to front

2.  Jack up other side, do the same

3.  Jack up front from both sides, swap the tires across

 

I don't have a flat enough driveway or equipment to get all 4 wheels up.  This takes a little longer, but feels a little safer.  Standard safety precautions were followed - wheel chocks, I used jack stands in addition to the jacks (one heavy floor jack, one scissor jack) and put an old wheel/tire under the middle of each side of the car in case jacks failed.  I made a sweet jacking puck from a wood block where each corner fits between the "castles" on the floor jack to prevent slipping and sliding, and I cut a groove with a Sawzall in the middle to fit around the pinch weld.  Cut across the grain to prevent cracking.  Worked perfectly - better than a polyurethane puck IMHO - and free with scrap wood.  People who have jacked up the car before will recognize the "key" that got cut into the wood where there's a bulge in the pinch weld in back.

[joe]

I have had wheel alignment done at 13K and 30K and both times the front and rear wheels were not within specs.  At 13K, when I had tires rotated, I could hear a thumping so I knew it was too late for the tires so I had them rotated back which put the cupped tires on the rear which made less noise.  By 30K, the tires were getting noisier.  So, I put new tires on (Costco), and took to dealer for alignment, which it needed.  I'm not sure if 12K or once a year will be sufficient for wheel alignment with the C-Max.  I think I will, however, rotate tires more often than 12K.

[ptjones]

I find you need to rotate every 10K  and change direction every 20K. :)   Wheel alignment is a good Idea too. BTW you can't adjust camber on rear without replacing top support, it isn't adjustable.

 

Paul 

[obob]

Went to the dealer today to talk to him about the tire cupping in the back.  He said I need to pay for $75 rear axle alignment for it needs alignment.  I told him that it is not adjustable and the response from the mechanic sitting next to him is that it is adjustable.  I told him I question that.  Well after more talk he said that it may be that something is bent and that would me my cost. I was wondering if I was being set up for some bigger expense.

 

My feeling is that the tire are cupping because of a design problem and I don't want to pay for an alignment.

 

I told him from my Internet research that this is a common problem.  His response was something like Internet talk is worthless acting like the all-knowing dealer.  Perhaps Friday wasn't the best day to stop by.

Edited September 26, 2015 by obob

[SnowStorm]

obob,

 

To a degree, you are both right.  Rear toe is adjustable but camber is not (unless you call replacing control arms adjustable!).  I replaced mine because I had inside edge wear - read about it here (see whole topic).  I had lots of cupping too, also on the inside, but I had not rotated nearly often enough.  My Michelin dealer says that the undriven tires are prone to cupping (I've had it on our Fit too) and that rotating the cupped tires to the driven wheels should help but it can take thousands of miles.  They also say to rotate every 5,000 miles so that is what I'll do this time!  (Now that I've bought a set from them they do it for free. :) )  I doubt there is anything fundamentally "wrong" with the C-Max - except that an adjustment for rear camber would be nice.

 

joe,

 

From my experience, putting the cupped tires on the front may sound worse at first but they eventually quiet down - at least somewhat.  Keeping them on the back makes them get even worse.  Frequent rotations is certainly important.

[joe]

SnowStorm.  You are probably right.  I didn't keep the cupped tires on the front for very long.   But it took another 10K miles on the back before the tire noise began to grow.