My transmission broke and yours might too

[bigalpha]

2013 SEL with ~82,000 miles

Estimated >85% interstate driving

All recommended, regular maintenance performed on time

 

Started hearing a noise between 55-60 mph that was a very loud whine while under power.  Go over 60 and the noise all but disappeared, go under 55 and the noise was very faint. 

 

Soon thereafter, we experienced a noise that sounded like a bad wheel bearing.  Noticed that it was not speed dependent, did not change sound on varying speed.  Sound got much worse under power, especially while electric motor was running. 

 

Take the car in for diagnostics and they found a bad bearing in the transmission.  Apparently the bearing was under engineered (too small, maybe) and prematurely wore out.  Recommended Ford fix is installation of new transmission with re-engineered bearing and NOT to attempt to fix the damage in the broken transmission.

 

I did not experience any transmission-related problems, however I believe that issues past the noise were imminent based on how fast the noise progressed.  I did not receive any warning lights.

 

I was advised that that issue occurs in only a certain batch of CMax's but I am unsure how to tell.  It wouldn't surprise me if there comes a rash of faulty transmissions in all the cars that use these transmissions.  You may want to go talk to your service adviser (maybe one of the advisers who frequent the forum can find out for us).

 

Luckily, I have the Platinum extended warranty so there's no major cost to me.  Based solely on the complexity of hybrid systems, I would definitely recommend everyone get an extended warranty.

[Kelleytoons]

Although, as with all insurance, everyone needs to evaluate their own risks based upon all factors.

 

For example, with me putting around 8K a year on our Max, with about 20% on the highway, buying the extended warranty is fairly stupid (we are also covered by our Geico warranty but even if not...).  If I get ten years worth out of this vehicle before a major repair it might very well outlive me (and that's assuming I DO have the same transmission as you).

 

But to each his own.

[bigalpha]

Sure, and you also drive about half as much as the average person in a year.  I drive roughly three to four times as much.  However, the factory warranty runs out regardless of your mileage and given how complex, unique and intensive a hybrid system is, if you are planning on keeping your car for a while then having an extended warranty isn't such a bad idea.

In my case, I put approximately five years worth of mileage on my car in roughly two years. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by bigalpha

[Bill-N]

Look here re transmission "grinding noise":  http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/4792-tsb-14-0214-hf35-transmission-thumpingrubbing-or-grinding-noise/

[Kelleytoons]

Sure, and you also drive about half as much as the average person in a year.  I drive roughly three to four times as much.  However, the factory warranty runs out regardless of your mileage and given how complex, unique and intensive a hybrid system is, if you are planning on keeping your car for a while then having an extended warranty isn't such a bad idea.

 

In my case, I put approximately five years worth of mileage on my car in roughly two years. 

If the factory warranty of 8 years, 100K miles doesn't cover the transmission then, yes, for a lot of folks it would be worth having an extended warranty.  For me, not so much (again, because I won't get the mileage you do unless the car outlives me :>).  Which is why I said that everyone needs to evaluate this for themselves -- it certainly isn't a slam dunk to get that warranty (which is why it is priced the way it is -- believe me, the insurers understand the game far better than either you or I, and they ALWAYS win, much like Vegas.  Just like Vegas, some folks do indeed beat the house but most do not and most folks have WAY more insurance than they need, which is why those companies are in business and make lots of money).

Edited May 1, 2015 by Kelleytoons

[bigalpha]

If the factory warranty of 8 years, 100K miles

 Uh what?

[ptjones]

I have 98Kmi on my CMAX and the Trans has gone bad.  I think it  is prudent to have a warranty period for as long as you plan on owning the car. I heard replacing the Trans is about $6K. I have been monitoring my Trans Fluid temp since 90Kmi and it has been above 150*F on the FWY.  Most members seem to be 150*F or below.  I complained to my Dealer, but he said he couldn't do anything until it put out a code or made noise.  7kmi later it started to make a noise and 400mi after that I stopped at Rich FORD in Albuquerque, NM  and they verified it was the Trans going bad. I was on my way to AZ and decided to continue on another 350mi to Williams,AZ.  Five days later I started to go back home to GA, but decided to stop at Rich FORD again, because the noise had gotten much louder and I was afraid I couldn't make it home. I had 1100mi on the Trans since it started to make noise and I didn't want to get stranded out in the middle of no where.  Another benefit was Rich FORD had recently replaced a Trans in FFH so they had some experience which is very good.  FORD is paying for an Explorer Rental until the car is fixed. I will have to drive back to Rich FORD to get it.

 

What I have learned from this is:

 

1. Make sure you don't let your car get out of Warranty.

 

2. If you do mostly City driving you may never have this problem, Trans gets warmer after extended high speed driving.  I have 82% HWY driving.

 

3. The only thing that makes sense to me is that the trans pump impeller fails so Trans Fluid doesn't circulate through cooler causing TFT to go up. I believe eventually debris wear teeth and bearings.

 

4. You can test your Trans cooler lines to see if you might have a problem by reaching down from the top of ICE compartment in front of Trans to the two cooling lines coming out of Trans.  If one line is noticeably warmer than the other you are probably OK. If they are the same temp you probably have a problem.  You also use Digital IR Thermometer to do the same thing.

 

5. It may take up to 20Kmi to start to manifest symptoms.  ;)

 

Paul     

Edited May 3, 2015 by ptjones

[markd]

You didn't cover your grill did you? All that talk kind of scared me.

[Kelleytoons]

 

 

2. If you do mostly City driving you may never have this problem, Trans gets warmer after extended high speed driving.  I have 82% HWY driving.

 

 

Not only do I do mostly city, but I almost never go over 60mph so I doubt I'd ever have to worry (and even when I do drive 60mph it isn't for more than 40 minutes at a time).

 

But, folks, Paul DOES cover his grill so that might be a contributing factor.

[Kelleytoons]

 Uh what?

What Paul said -- apparently the tranny is covered by the original factory warranty of 8 years, 100K. 

 

So getting an extended warranty for the vast majority of us in order to protect the tranny isn't a good deal at all (but I admit someone in your situation who puts that many miles on will definitely benefit).

[ptjones]

It's strange , but actually the Trans runs cooler with Grill Covers on.  With the Grill Covers off the WT doesn't get above 214*F so the shutters won't open to allow air to go thru Trans Cooler. Grill Covers aren't air tight. I was seeing TFT 180*F with Grill Covers on and 190*F with lower cover off. :) 

 

Paul 

[hybridbear]

A number of Fusion owners have had failed transmissions. The hybrids don't have an auxiliary TFT pump which means fluid only circulates in the transmission when the ICE is on. The Energi has two transmission pumps, one for when the ICE is on & one for when the ICE is off.

 

Paul is right that the transmission fluid temp gets hotter on highway drives than city drives. This is because of increased friction at higher speeds. Allowing the ICE to turn off at highway speeds might create a lubrication issue.

 

The first gen FFH doesn't have issues because it has a lower maximum EV speed which keeps the transmission lubricated at high speeds.

 

Ford might have a big issue on their hands here.

[obob]

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/3094-ssm-44252-hybrids-in-taxi-service-hf35-transmission-bearing-noise/page-2?do=findComment&comment=46461

 

As I recall, sometime in 2013 they corrected the problem bearings, sometime after my C-Max was manufactured.

 

I never really believed the comment this problem was inherit in taxi driving.

Edited May 2, 2015 by obob

[ptjones]

I wonder if there is a problem with the impeller in the Trans pump? If that fails the parts from that get ground up in the planetary gears eventually and damage the bearings. In my case I think the trans lasted atleast another 10Kmi before the Trans started to make noise. I think If you where out of warranty you could change the Trans Fluid to get rid of any junk in the Trans and put new fluid in.  I would think you could go another 20K-30Kmiles before any problems started to happen, maybe longer.  I don't think temp is the problem, I think junk from pump is. IMO :)

 

Paul

[bigalpha]

What is the factory warranty? I thought it was 3/36?

[ptjones]

What is the factory warranty? I thought it was 3/36?

FORD Warranties Hybrid Parts for 8yr/100Kmi. with no deductible. :yahoo:  This is why everyone needs to check their Trans temps periodically on long trips on the FWY over an hour long.  Don't let your FORD Warranty expire while you own the car, repairs are to expensive. $6K for the Trans. :)

 

 

Paul

[bigalpha]

Is the transmission considered part if the hybrid system?

[SPL Tech]

2013 SEL with ~82,000 miles

Estimated >85% interstate driving

All recommended, regular maintenance performed on time

 

Started hearing a noise between 55-60 mph that was a very loud whine while under power.  Go over 60 and the noise all but disappeared, go under 55 and the noise was very faint. 

 

Soon thereafter, we experienced a noise that sounded like a bad wheel bearing.  Noticed that it was not speed dependent, did not change sound on varying speed.  Sound got much worse under power, especially while electric motor was running. 

 

Take the car in for diagnostics and they found a bad bearing in the transmission.  Apparently the bearing was under engineered (too small, maybe) and prematurely wore out.  Recommended Ford fix is installation of new transmission with re-engineered bearing and NOT to attempt to fix the damage in the broken transmission.

 

I did not experience any transmission-related problems, however I believe that issues past the noise were imminent based on how fast the noise progressed.  I did not receive any warning lights.

 

I was advised that that issue occurs in only a certain batch of CMax's but I am unsure how to tell.  It wouldn't surprise me if there comes a rash of faulty transmissions in all the cars that use these transmissions.  You may want to go talk to your service adviser (maybe one of the advisers who frequent the forum can find out for us).

 

Luckily, I have the Platinum extended warranty so there's no major cost to me.  Based solely on the complexity of hybrid systems, I would definitely recommend everyone get an extended warranty.

All transmissions are complex. A tranny replacement in [insert any car brand you want] is not much less expensive or less likely to require service. The tranny is protected to 100k/ 8Y anyway so your platinum investment was a complete waste of money.

[SPL Tech]

  This is why everyone needs to check their Trans temps periodically on long trips on the FWY over an hour long.

 

 

Paul

Why? Say you check it and it seems hotter to you than you think it should be. What are you going to do about it? There is nothing you can do about it. The dealer is not going to do any work on your car under the prognosis that you think the tranny might be running hot. That's not sufficient, there needs to be physical damage or a code.

Edited May 3, 2015 by SPL Tech

[bigalpha]

All transmissions are complex. A tranny replacement in [insert any car brand you want] is not much less expensive or less likely to require service. The tranny is protected to 100k/ 8Y anyway so your platinum investment was a complete waste of money.

Except it covers all the other things that are actually outside of factory warranty period.  

  

*edit* Service is different than failure.  I absolutely expect my transmission to last longer than 80,000 miles.  And if it doesn't, well that's just a pile of shit.

Edited May 3, 2015 by bigalpha

[homestead]

FORD Warranties Hybrid Parts for 8yr/100Kmi. with no deductible. :yahoo:  This is why everyone needs to check their Trans temps periodically on long trips on the FWY over an hour long.  Don't let your FORD Warranty expire while you own the car, repairs are to expensive. $6K for the Trans. :)

 

 

Paul

 

Paul, How long is the replacement transmission covered ?

[bigalpha]

I haven't found a list of items that are considered a part of the hybrid system.  Does there exist one?

[ptjones]

Why? Say you check it and it seems hotter to you than you think it should be. What are you going to do about it? There is nothing you can do about it. The dealer is not going to do any work on your car under the prognosis that you think the tranny might be running hot. That's not sufficient, there needs to be physical damage or a code.

If you take it to the Dealer and they write it up then you have something in writing about possible Trans Problem for future reference. It also gives you advance notice that probably within 10Kmi. the Trans is going to go bad. I knew that there was a good possibility on my trip to AZ the Trans was going to go bad.  I also know the Trans will go at least 1100mi once it starts to make noise. :)

 

 

Paul

Edited May 3, 2015 by ptjones

[ptjones]

Paul, How long is the replacement transmission covered ?

I will find out and Post it tomorrow, maybe 100Kmi.

 

BTW The Transmission is a lot more than a trans, it has two electric motors/generators in there too.

 

Here is a list of parts covered by Hybrid Warranty:

 

Your vehicle’s unique hybrid / electric components are covered during

the Hybrid / Electric Unique Component Coverage, which lasts for eight

years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

•

The following hybrid parts are covered during this extended coverage

period: high-voltage battery, hybrid continuously variable transmission,

Inverter System Controller (ISC), DC/DC converter, high-voltage

battery connector, battery pack fan assembly, thermistor probe, Hybrid

Battery Pack Sensor Module (HBPSM), Battery Energy Control Module

(BECM), and the PHEV onboard charger.

•

The following Focus Electric unique parts are covered during this

extended coverage period: high-voltage battery packs, high voltage

charger, DC/DC convertor, Electric Drive Module Assembly (includes

electric motor and gearbox), trans range and charge cord.

Note: Lithium-Ion Battery Gradual Capacity Loss

The Lithium-ion battery (EV battery) will experience gradual

capacity loss with time and use (similar to all lithium-ion batteries),

which is considered normal wear and tear. Loss of battery capacity

due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under

the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. See your Owner’s Manual for

important tips on how to maximize the life and capacity of the

Lithium-ion battery.

 

This is in you Owners Manual Warranty info with the car. :)

 

Paul

[plus 3 golfer]

I haven't found a list of items that are considered a part of the hybrid system.  Does there exist one?

Then, you haven't looked very hard. ;) Ford's extended warranty coverage for the hybrid system has been posted in many threads and can be found on Ford's website in the warranty documents.  :) 

 

In California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington the coverage of the components shown below may be longer than the 8 yr / 100 k miles. I'd suggest that owners in those states weigh the benefits of purchasing an extended warranty if worried about expensive hybrid parts failing as the C-Max transmission, for example, may be covered for a considerably longer period (15 years / 150 k miles) than Ford's limited new car warranty.  If not sure, send an email to Ford or perhaps your state.

 

"Your vehicle’s unique hybrid / electric components are covered during the Hybrid / Electric Unique Component Coverage, which lasts for eight years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first. • The following hybrid parts are covered during this extended coverage period: high-voltage battery, hybrid continuously variable transmission, Inverter System Controller (ISC), DC/DC converter, high-voltage battery connector, battery pack fan assembly, thermistor probe, Hybrid Battery Pack Sensor Module (HBPSM), Battery Energy Control Module (BECM), and the PHEV onboard charger."