New C-Max from dealer w/damage

[BIG ROCCO]

We have purchased 2 CMs, a '13 and a '15 - both were delivered in absolutely perfect condition.  You got a raw deal - sorry to say you may be in for a frustrating process if you want the car to be perfect.

 

I will say that both CMs exhibited the "slow" closing of the rear doors you described.  I don't consider that a defect, just a peculiarity.  I would rather it be a wee bit tight when new; after a few years the weatherstripping will probably dry out and shrink a little bit and be perfect!.  I think I read about that elsewhere on this forum and there was a recommendation to clean and then apply something to the vertical weatherstripping on the door in that area to help it slide better.  I have been using some kind of plastic/vinyl protectant - whatever is handy on the shelf in my garage...I use that on all the weatherstripping on the car, but especially in that one area.  Also, I make sure to clean the actual B-Pillar and apply paint wax to that area.    

 

The Vaseline from post # 10 might also work for this purpose.

Edited December 8, 2015 by BIG ROCCO

[stevedebi]

I didn't have any defects on my 2014 either. But I drove at least a dozen C-Max / Energi before I picked mine out.

[Adrian_L]

This post is increasingly depressing.  It sounds like you're getting pushed around by the dealership for the same reasons that you seemingly bought a car you felt "pressured" to buy.  And inexplicably you didn't walk away when the dealer didn't want to show you another car.

What I have learned in nearly 50 years on this planet?  NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO LIKE YOU!!!!!!!    Be assertive.  Be a jerk if you have to.  Demand that your damned car gets fixed and if that doesn't work go to the regional manager for Ford in the area. 

Edited December 9, 2015 by Adrian_L

[kuklachica]

Why did you give the loaner back to them? How did you get home after returning the loaner? Sounds like you could have had more leverage in this situation. Have you contacted user FordService like was suggested a number of days ago?

The dealership owner became angry because I called the state DMV (oversees dealer licensing) and hired a lawyer. Our lawyer put together a letter with our requests (documentation, repairing all defects that we found, 3rd party assessment of their repairs). After he talked with the owner's lawyer, the owner changed his mind and "allowed" us to keep the loaner until our car is done. They said last Thursday that it would be done on Friday of last week. Once they finally looked closely, they then changed it to Wednesday of this week. They will have had it for almost 2 weeks. About 66% 75% of the time we've owned it has been spent at the dealership.

 

Yes, I have been in contact with Ford since the beginning. They have been completely unhelpful. Since the dealership never called to update us on repair status, I only know third-hand through Ford what repairs were going to be completed. According to the regional rep, "...there are 2 small spots on the inside of the hatch, the right tail lamp assembly is not quite lined up and the left door is also off a little bit."  So, until I hired a lawyer, they were only going to repair these items (no mention of the dent, cockeyed hatch, etc). I sent the regional rep the list of defects and received no acknowledgement. I sent the list to the dealer and owner numerous times, no response. I went over the list with the regional rep's supervisor, he told me his department "doesn't deal with the technical mechanical stuff." I've spoken with the regional rep and her supervisor, as well as the rep in this forum. Ford took 3 days to return my calls (despite their policy of returning calls within 4 hours) and the rep here has only responded to me once (I have sent her several questions when my calls were not returned). They know that the dealership had been dragging their feet, but they say they can't do anything about it. They did a "good faith review" of the situation, and determined it does not qualify for a replacement, at this time. The regional rep said to go ahead and trade it in for another vehicle if I don't feel comfortable with/want the car. Ford undermined their reliability by sending out a vehicle that had several cosmetic and functional defects. The dealer fails to find these defects in the various inspections upon delivery to the lot, before purchase, etc. The dealer then will not do all of the repairs, fails to call us or return emails for updates, and tries to take back the loaner. Ford says they cannot do anything about any of this. And then Ford suggests I trade in the car for another one. So, they are happy to make thousands of dollars off of me because of Ford's own quality control incompetence (depreciation, plus whatever they would deduct because of all of their own defects, and a new car).  This is the worst experience I have ever had with a car, and by far the worst customer service I have ever had the misfortune of dealing with. Once this is over, I will be sure to share my experience with Ford and the dealership on BBB, yelp, google, etc. 

 

BIG R - the door doesn't close slowly; it hardly closes at all. See a video clip of it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw4qlYfTlmbGTElSNDlXS1VmRUU/view?usp=sharing

Edited December 9, 2015 by kuklachica

[Kelleytoons]

I wouldn't wait until it's over to share your issues.

 

While I don't hold out a lot of hope you will see any benefits from it, there's always a chance that the social media route will catch the eye of someone at Ford (or even the dealer -- not EVERYONE may be unscrupulous there) and help you.  As I said, I'm sure there is a Yelp and most likely a Facebook page for that particular dealer, and they are NOT going to want to see these things posted.  In any case, they may well reply there and things may escalate.

 

Dealerships are a very odd situation -- I watched a 60 Minutes report on them once and wonder how in the hell we ever allow this to continue to happen in this information age.  They are an archaic holdover with a ton of political clout and there is absolutely no other product or service in the entire world that operates with so little oversight or control on them.  I actually think that finding an honest dealership is such a rarity that you need to shout it from the mountaintops.  I also think that it's not limited to any one maker -- you happened to come across a bad Ford dealer, but I suspect there are equally bad dealers in your area for the other companies (in our town it's our Dodge dealer that is completely dishonest, but I won't bore you with the stories).

 

Perhaps some day they can be completely eliminated (there really isn't any need for a dealership anymore, not in this information age).  I don't think it will be in my lifetime, though.

[hybridbear]

the door doesn't close slowly; it hardly closes at all. See a video clip of it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw4qlYfTlmbGTElSNDlXS1VmRUU/view?usp=sharing

These cars seem to be very airtight. We've found in our Fusion Energi & Focus Electric, along with my parents' C-Max, that if all the windows are closed, it takes a good amount of force to close the doors. We've found this is true most of all in my parents' C-Max Energi. If you hear rubbing when closing the door, something we heard on our Fusion Hybrid, you can ask the dealer to adjust the door so that it closes smoothly. It took only a few minutes to fix that issue on our Fusion Hybrid. The FFH door got out of alignment because a rear seat passenger closed the door on their heavy wool coat in the winter. When the door wouldn't close, because their coat was in the way, they kept slamming the door until it closed & in the process they pushed it out of alignment. The dealer fixed it under warranty.

 

The dealership owner became angry because I called the state DMV (oversees dealer licensing) and hired a lawyer. Our lawyer put together a letter with our requests (documentation, repairing all defects that we found, 3rd party assessment of their repairs). After he talked with the owner's lawyer, the owner changed his mind and "allowed" us to keep the loaner until our car is done. They said last Thursday that it would be done on Friday of last week. Once they finally looked closely, they then changed it to Wednesday of this week. They will have had it for almost 2 weeks. About 66% 75% of the time we've owned it has been spent at the dealership.

 

Yes, I have been in contact with Ford since the beginning. They have been completely unhelpful. Since the dealership never called to update us on repair status, I only know third-hand through Ford what repairs were going to be completed. According to the regional rep, "...there are 2 small spots on the inside of the hatch, the right tail lamp assembly is not quite lined up and the left door is also off a little bit."  So, until I hired a lawyer, they were only going to repair these items (no mention of the dent, cockeyed hatch, etc). I sent the regional rep the list of defects and received no acknowledgement. I sent the list to the dealer and owner numerous times, no response. I went over the list with the regional rep's supervisor, he told me his department "doesn't deal with the technical mechanical stuff." I've spoken with the regional rep and her supervisor, as well as the rep in this forum. Ford took 3 days to return my calls (despite their policy of returning calls within 4 hours) and the rep here has only responded to me once (I have sent her several questions when my calls were not returned). They know that the dealership had been dragging their feet, but they say they can't do anything about it. They did a "good faith review" of the situation, and determined it does not qualify for a replacement, at this time. The regional rep said to go ahead and trade it in for another vehicle if I don't feel comfortable with/want the car. Ford undermined their reliability by sending out a vehicle that had several cosmetic and functional defects. The dealer fails to find these defects in the various inspections upon delivery to the lot, before purchase, etc. The dealer then will not do all of the repairs, fails to call us or return emails for updates, and tries to take back the loaner. Ford says they cannot do anything about any of this. And then Ford suggests I trade in the car for another one. So, they are happy to make thousands of dollars off of me because of Ford's own quality control incompetence (depreciation, plus whatever they would deduct because of all of their own defects, and a new car).  This is the worst experience I have ever had with a car, and by far the worst customer service I have ever had the misfortune of dealing with. Once this is over, I will be sure to share my experience with Ford and the dealership on BBB, yelp, google, etc.

Once you hire a lawyer you take away internal options within Ford to get help. That may be why you aren't getting service from Ford Corporate. Have you ever posted a pic of the dent? I don't recall seeing a pic of the dent.

 

It's not uncommon to have small manufacturing defects. Ford has a very specific paint warranty & has prepared guides for the dealers to assess paint damage & determine what is covered by warranty & what isn't. The paint guide is available here.

 

On our FFH there was a paint bubble on the trunk lid near the Hybrid emblem. I pointed it out to the dealer when we did our inspection after signing the paperwork. They made a note of it & repaired it for us under warranty.

 

What has the lawyer recommended doing?

 

Here is a decent article from Edmunds that talks about what options consumers have when they have issues with a new car purchase.

[FordService]

...

 

So, until I hired a lawyer...and the rep here has only responded to me once (I have sent her several questions when my calls were not returned)...They did a "good faith review" of the situation, and determined it does not qualify for a replacement, at this time. The regional rep said to go ahead and trade it in for another vehicle...

Hi kuklachica,

 

I had replied to your last message on the 3rd, but looking at my inbox, I see it never actually sent to you. Since you're already working with my highest point of contact (your CSM), and went through the buyback proceedings, I'm unable to assist further. I recommend continuing to work with your CSM and dealer for a resolution.

 

Meagan

[kuklachica]

 These cars seem to be very airtight. We've found in our Fusion Energi & Focus Electric, along with my parents' C-Max, that if all the windows are closed, it takes a good amount of force to close the doors. We've found this is true most of all in my parents' C-Max Energi. If you hear rubbing when closing the door, something we heard on our Fusion Hybrid, you can ask the dealer to adjust the door so that it closes smoothly. It took only a few minutes to fix that issue on our Fusion Hybrid. The FFH door got out of alignment because a rear seat passenger closed the door on their heavy wool coat in the winter. When the door wouldn't close, because their coat was in the way, they kept slamming the door until it closed & in the process they pushed it out of alignment. The dealer fixed it under warranty.

 

The door still didn't close even when we left the other doors open (I thought of it being airtight, too). Thanks for the alignment/something caught in the door idea. That makes sense. That was simple enough to explain. Why couldn't the dealer take the time to explain it to me?

 

 

Once you hire a lawyer you take away internal options within Ford to get help. That may be why you aren't getting service from Ford Corporate.

The unreturned calls were all prior to hiring a lawyer.

 

Have you ever posted a pic of the dent? I don't recall seeing a pic of the dent.

I think I have. If not, here it is again, along with one of the places worn to the primer (and clear-coated) and a close-up, detached wiring gasket, dirt in the paint. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevedebi]

The door still didn't close even when we left the other doors open (I thought of it being airtight, too). Thanks for the alignment/something caught in the door idea. That makes sense. That was simple enough to explain. Why couldn't the dealer take the time to explain it to me?

 

 

The unreturned calls were all prior to hiring a lawyer.

 

I think I have. If not, here it is again, along with one of the places worn to the primer (and clear-coated) and a close-up, detached wiring gasket, dirt in the paint. 

 

 

 

 

 

You did post them before, but not this large. Man, that is a poor manufacturing job. If I were Ford, I'd exchange it for a new one and send this back to the factory for them to ask how this could happen.

[kuklachica]

And those aren't even all of the problems. Is there supposed to be a whiny electrical sound 90% of the time when driving? You can kind of hear it faintly when you come to a stop (in the loaner) but it was nearly constant in my car.

[stevedebi]

And those aren't even all of the problems. Is there supposed to be a whiny electrical sound 90% of the time when driving? You can kind of hear it faintly when you come to a stop (in the loaner) but it was nearly constant in my car.

No, I don't notice generator whine when driving in hybrid mode. There is some on most hybrids, but I've not noticed it on my Energi. But I seldom drive on the streets in hybrid mode - my hybrid driving is almost all highway and the wind noise would predominate. I drive a couple miles of hybrid on the streets every week, proably no more.

 

Perhaps a C-Max non Energi owner could chime in here...

[BIG ROCCO]

The dealership owner became angry because I called the state DMV (oversees dealer licensing) and hired a lawyer. Our lawyer put together a letter with our requests (documentation, repairing all defects that we found, 3rd party assessment of their repairs). After he talked with the owner's lawyer, the owner changed his mind and "allowed" us to keep the loaner until our car is done. They said last Thursday that it would be done on Friday of last week. Once they finally looked closely, they then changed it to Wednesday of this week. They will have had it for almost 2 weeks. About 66% 75% of the time we've owned it has been spent at the dealership.

 

Yes, I have been in contact with Ford since the beginning. They have been completely unhelpful. Since the dealership never called to update us on repair status, I only know third-hand through Ford what repairs were going to be completed. According to the regional rep, "...there are 2 small spots on the inside of the hatch, the right tail lamp assembly is not quite lined up and the left door is also off a little bit."  So, until I hired a lawyer, they were only going to repair these items (no mention of the dent, cockeyed hatch, etc). I sent the regional rep the list of defects and received no acknowledgement. I sent the list to the dealer and owner numerous times, no response. I went over the list with the regional rep's supervisor, he told me his department "doesn't deal with the technical mechanical stuff." I've spoken with the regional rep and her supervisor, as well as the rep in this forum. Ford took 3 days to return my calls (despite their policy of returning calls within 4 hours) and the rep here has only responded to me once (I have sent her several questions when my calls were not returned). They know that the dealership had been dragging their feet, but they say they can't do anything about it. They did a "good faith review" of the situation, and determined it does not qualify for a replacement, at this time. The regional rep said to go ahead and trade it in for another vehicle if I don't feel comfortable with/want the car. Ford undermined their reliability by sending out a vehicle that had several cosmetic and functional defects. The dealer fails to find these defects in the various inspections upon delivery to the lot, before purchase, etc. The dealer then will not do all of the repairs, fails to call us or return emails for updates, and tries to take back the loaner. Ford says they cannot do anything about any of this. And then Ford suggests I trade in the car for another one. So, they are happy to make thousands of dollars off of me because of Ford's own quality control incompetence (depreciation, plus whatever they would deduct because of all of their own defects, and a new car).  This is the worst experience I have ever had with a car, and by far the worst customer service I have ever had the misfortune of dealing with. Once this is over, I will be sure to share my experience with Ford and the dealership on BBB, yelp, google, etc. 

 

BIG R - the door doesn't close slowly; it hardly closes at all. See a video clip of it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw4qlYfTlmbGTElSNDlXS1VmRUU/view?usp=sharing

 

Oh - sorry - that is totally different than what I thought you were describing.  Now that I hear it, I can tell that door and latch are obviously not aligned.  What a mess!

 

That is so blatantly defective that I do have to ask the question: I'm not saying that, in a perfect world, you shouldn't have had to, but did you not try all the doors before accepting delivery?  I can understand missing something minor like the small scratches in the paint and some of the other issues you have noticed, but this seems like a pretty obvious problem, no?

 

I actually notice a little more whine in our '15 vs. the '13

Edited December 9, 2015 by BIG ROCCO

[stevedebi]

Oh - sorry - that is totally different than what I thought you were describing.  Now that I hear it, I can tell that door and latch are obviously not aligned.  What a mess!

 

That is so blatantly defective that I do have to ask the question: I'm not saying that, in a perfect world, you shouldn't have had to, but did you not try all the doors before accepting delivery?  I can understand missing something minor like the small scratches in the paint and some of the other issues you have noticed, but this seems like a pretty obvious problem, no?

 

I actually notice a little more whine in our '15 vs. the '13

I suppose one could ask that question, but I don't think I checked all four doors of my car when I received it either. The salesman demonstrated the power hatch, so I did see that open and close, and of course the two front doors. But I don't think I checked the rear doors.

[scottwood2]

Would that not be part of the dealers 150,000 point check that they always seem to say they do for their certified cars?  Just kidding on the number but I always hear about this "Certified" selling point and then I hear people say that something was not checked. 

 

What was checked was the box next to the item on the list. 

 

I do think dealers want to do the right thing but they want profits too and take shortcuts.  I once turned down taking delivery of a car due to paint imperfections.   Refused the car and pick another one.  When I asked about having a room with good lighting to review the car I was told that they only make $7 on the sale of the car so they could not afford it.  I kept looking for her living under some bridge as with that little profit she could not afford a house but I never saw her there.  ;)

 

I have had my share of issues with dealerships but I believe that being nice really helps fix issues.  Getting mad never seems to fix issues at least for what I have seen. 

[obob]

...  I was told that they only make $7 on the sale of the car so they could not afford it.  I kept looking for her living under some bridge as with that little profit she could not afford a house but I never saw her there.  ;)

 

I have had my share of issues with dealerships but I believe that being nice really helps fix issues.  Getting mad never seems to fix issues at least for what I have seen. 

 

"Dealer holdback: This is money the manufacturer pays to the dealer only after a car is sold. It's typically 2 or 3 percent of either the invoice or the sticker price of the car. On a $20,000 car, a holdback represents $400 to $600. The holdback allows dealers to sell a car at invoice price (or even below invoice) and still make money. Most manufacturers offer holdbacks to their brands' dealers, but not all. You can check the holdback percentage before going shopping but don't try to build it into your negotiations. Dealers consider this money off limits for the purposes of price negotiation.

Dealer cash:  When a car isn't selling well, the manufacturer will sometimes offer an incentive — often as much as $2,000 — to move it off lots. That's known as dealer cash."

from http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/where-does-the-car-dealer-make-money.html

 

Also

 

" new vehicle department of a car dealership accounts for about 30 percent of a dealership's gross profits.  ...  The used vehicle department represents nearly 26 percent of a dealership's gross profit ... service and parts department, which accounts for 44 percent of the dealership's gross profits, "

 

 

As far as "being nice"  it seems like I am learning how to "play the game" and "being nice" is part of it.  ( Still a work in progress. )

Edited December 10, 2015 by obob

[stevedebi]

Would that not be part of the dealers 150,000 point check that they always seem to say they do for their certified cars?  Just kidding on the number but I always hear about this "Certified" selling point and then I hear people say that something was not checked. 

 

What was checked was the box next to the item on the list. 

 

I do think dealers want to do the right thing but they want profits too and take shortcuts.  I once turned down taking delivery of a car due to paint imperfections.   Refused the car and pick another one.  When I asked about having a room with good lighting to review the car I was told that they only make $7 on the sale of the car so they could not afford it.  I kept looking for her living under some bridge as with that little profit she could not afford a house but I never saw her there.  ;)

 

I have had my share of issues with dealerships but I believe that being nice really helps fix issues.  Getting mad never seems to fix issues at least for what I have seen. 

He bought new. That is what is so frustrating.

[MichaelM]

The dealerships being "independently owned" vs company owned has really damaged the customers ability to get problems addressed without going to the extremes of threatened or engaging in legal action. Both want to stay at arms length and point fingers at the other. Meanwhile they each say their hands are tied, even though they would 'love' to help get your issue resolved.

I truly believe the people (CSM, Service Manager, Technician, etc..) want to help but have run into such an arcane system with no ultimate solution available.

 

Some emails to try mfields@ford.com, wford@ford.com. Though again the answer may be it's really someone else's responsibility.

Edited December 10, 2015 by MichaelM

[kuklachica]

Some quick responses to recent posts:

 

-- I did not pay close attention to the doors closing at the dealership. I did have all the doors open to move stuff from one car to the C-Max (all pillows and cushions, nothing that could get caught in a door and dent the pillar). I can't remember if I closed them all or if the salesman closed some. If I did close it and had to re-close it, I didn't pay attention. It never occurred to me to have to test doors of a new car, or inspect for paint damage along every inch of the interior and exterior. Lesson learned, unfortunately.

 

-- I have been nice, but also assertive. I think that comes across negatively to some people. I definitely haven't sugar-coated anything, though. The service department had definitely been talking about us before we dropped the car off two weeks ago. When we dropped it off, the service manager said to me, "I heard you have Lyme disease." He went on to tell me that his wife has been struggling with it and is really not doing well, and her doctors have been useless. So, I shared some of my experiences battling Lyme, which, apparently, were very similar to what his wife is going through. He asked for some doctor recommendations. I compiled a list of doctors in his area and sent it to him that night. I found a couple of more names and sent them to him the next day. I also offered to answer any questions his wife might have because I know what it's like to feel scared and alone in this battle. A few days later, I sent him a few more doctors' names I had found. Tomorrow, when we get our car back, I am going to give him a book (to keep) about Lyme treatment. I hope my willingness to help shows the dealership that I am not trying to be petty. I think I have done more than what the average customer (in any store) would do if they were in this situation and treated this poorly by the owner. I am just not willing to have to "pay" for someone's incompetence (factory, or transit, or dealership). We have dealt with this same issues with our house this year (lived here for 2.5 years, only 10 years old). This summer we discovered mold INSIDE the wall of a bathroom, and, upon remediation and repair, found extensive construction defects throughout the whole house and involving every aspect of the frame. Our inspector missed the red flags, and we didn't know what to look for at the time of purchase. After dealing with that this summer, we are now very careful not to put ourselves in a similar situation again (yes, we should have caught a few of the car problems before we brought it home, but our experience with inspectors has shown that they can miss the obvious, too). Hence, my insistence on thoroughly repairing and documenting the defects/damage on our car. 

 

-- We are getting the car back tomorrow. I will definitely be inspecting every inch, driving it, and bringing it to another auto body shop (since I obviously don't know what to look for)

Edited December 11, 2015 by kuklachica

[scottwood2]

I hope they take care of the issues for you.  It is a great fun car to own.  Fingers crossed. 

[kuklachica]

Got the car back. The dent is better, door closes better. Painted areas on the hatch have runs and/or ruts (?) and are noticeable. They didn't repair the rough paint. They also gouged the area where the hatch and roof meet (and didn't repair them). I am so frustrated with this dealership. I don't know what to do at this point. They told me only three things were under warranty, and the rest was on the dealership to repair (this is consistent with what I've been hearing from Ford). So, it seems like it is out of Ford's hands? I just don't know what I should do at this point. It's so frustrating that it goes in for repairs, and comes out with new problems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[homestead]

Tell them if they refuse to repair it to your satisfaction you will ask the local news station

to do a story on the problems with your "NEW" car.