Terra clean recommended by Ford

[Adrian_L]

My wife's 2013 C-max has been problem free since we bought it in March 2014.    Recently, however, she noticed a bit of excess vibration or "shuddering" when the ICE was on for the first 5-10 minutes of her journey.   I suspected transmission or linkage problems, but after taking the car into our local dealership, apparently the transmission is fine and the problem is carbon build-up.   Ford is recommending a "terra clean".

 

I have a fair bit of experience tinkering with 60's-70's era cars, but this is beyond my scope of knowledge.   Does it sound reasonable that carbon build-up could cause initial excess vibration, but then the car runs perfectly after that?   I have to admit I'm skeptical.

[obob]

My father who used to be an auto mechanic would take a car on the road and floor it to blow the carbon out, especially if he knew the customer was really gentle with the car.    I have recently started to do something similar.  On a trip I make about once a week, toward the end (so the car is already warmed up) there is a long steep hill.  I stop at the bottom and then accelerate with about 3.75 bars (before the gauge goes yellow).  I use the hill because otherwise I would be going too fast.

 

I also have been using a fuel injector cleaner twice a year.

 

It is possible with the way I try to get good mileage carbon does build up.  I have posted once about giving the car the gas to make a light before it turns red that smoke comes out the exhaust.  That may be releasing carbon build up (though because it is white smoke I suspect it is just a huge fuel to air ratio.

Edited September 12, 2018 by obob

[Adrian_L]

Thanks for the tip.  I suspect my wife has been babying the throttle to save gas.  I guess I can't complain about a $500 repair bill that has been the only one in 4 years.

[obob]

Thanks for the tip.  I suspect my wife has been babying the throttle to save gas.  I guess I can't complain about a $500 repair bill that has been the only one in 4 years.

 

Did it eliminate the vibration ?

[Adrian_L]

Picking the car up tonight, so I'll know in a few days.

[plus 3 golfer]

 

...   Does it sound reasonable that carbon build-up could cause initial excess vibration, but then the car runs perfectly after that?   I have to admit I'm skeptical.

That's an interesting question given that ICE would likely come on above about 15-20 mph (EV only at low speeds) and then at higher speeds, higher ICE rpm to supply torque to generator and wheels.  My experience with "carbon build up" in a 2000 Passat is engine "stumbling and hesitation" and CEL flickering on / off (misfires) upon initial acceleration especially on cold engine. At cruise speed and hot engine the hesitation (misfires) stops and CEL is generally off.  VW recommended using Top Tier gas and Dealer did a free BG system cleaning.  

 

Given the way ICE operates in a hybrid and that ICE could take 5-10 minutes to reach higher operating temperature, perhaps the vibration is misfires just under the CEL threshold.  Why not just DIY with double dose of Techron.  Do you use "TopTier" gas?

[plus 3 golfer]

Well if Terraclean doesn't work, try  BG.

 

[Adrian_L]

I paid $588 for the diagnosis, clean and reprogramming.  My wife says the "shuddering" is still there, just like before.   What I suspected has now been confirmed:  Ford ran a barrage of tests and found nothing wrong.  Rather than tell me this, they recommended this terra clean thing to appease me.    However, it didn't fix the problem and I'm basically stuck with the same car, same problem and less cash.    I was reluctant to go to the dealership, because their technicians clearly lack the old-school intuition and intelligence to actually fix a problem through feel and trial-and-error.

[ptjones]

Well if Terraclean doesn't work, try  BG.

 

I liked the Music! LOL :)

 

I paid $588 for the diagnosis, clean and reprogramming.  My wife says the "shuddering" is still there, just like before.   What I suspected has now been confirmed:  Ford ran a barrage of tests and found nothing wrong.  Rather than tell me this, they recommended this terra clean thing to appease me.    However, it didn't fix the problem and I'm basically stuck with the same car, same problem and less cash.    I was reluctant to go to the dealership, because their technicians clearly lack the old-school intuition and intelligence to actually fix a problem through feel and trial-and-error.

I liked the NOS Octane Booster definitely improved gas mileage and has injector cleaner in it. Chevron Techron  has a good reputation and Lucas too.

 

Paul

[C-MaxA2]

I've used many of the previous suggestions (BG, Techron, etc.) but found Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant & Injector cleaner worked the best. Used it in our Ford Focus ZTW wagon and it cleaned things pretty well. Not expensive either (BG is ...). 

 

I'd never heard of 'Terra Clean'.  

[Adrian_L]

I'm going to drive at 6000 rpm for an hour.  Hopefully that will clear up any build up.

[jmcgliss]

I've used many of the previous suggestions (BG, Techron, etc.) but found Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant & Injector cleaner worked the best. Used it in our Ford Focus ZTW wagon and it cleaned things pretty well. Not expensive either (BG is ...). 

 

I'd never heard of 'Terra Clean'.  

 

I've been using the Lucas product this summer in our Subaru 2.5 litre turbo engines that are prone to misfire codes. It calmed everything right down.

[Adrian_L]

Thanks, I'll look into these cleaners.    Terra clean was about $200.   To answer your question, golfer--I use regular 87 octane.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Adrian_L

[plus 3 golfer]

Thanks, I'll look into these cleaners.    Terra clean was about $200.   To answer your question, golfer--I use regular 87 octane.

I believe the $200 includes the fuel induction system that injects the concentrated cleaner in the fuel rail. IMO, this is a "quick" fix but not lasting where using Top Tier gas that has higher detergent levels than required by regulation is the long term "cure" for carbon fouling and misfires. ;)  :)

[Bill-N]

FWIW, I came across this on Amazon.  Posted here just for info; I have no experience with this or any other such product.  As they say, YMMV.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2XFHX0ZR1210Q/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B000ARPVOI

[Adrian_L]

We're going to try a few tanks of premium and see what happens.   My wife hasn't complained lately so that must mean that the condition is better (I drove the car very aggressively for a few days).

[plus 3 golfer]

We're going to try a few tanks of premium and see what happens.   My wife hasn't complained lately so that must mean that the condition is better (I drove the car very aggressively for a few days).

:confused:  :confused: premium?  You need fuel with more detergent additive not higher octane. But it's your $ not mine. :)

[ptjones]

Did you try adding any of the fuel injector cleaners? I agree octane isn't going to solve the problem, but injector cleaner should. I use Premium and still use fuel injector cleaner. :)

 

Paul

[Adrian_L]

This weekend.   Injector cleaner, that is.

 

I thought premium included higher levels of detergent?  Are you saying that all octanes of say, Shell, have the same detergent levels?  

[plus 3 golfer]

This weekend.   Injector cleaner, that is.

 

I thought premium included higher levels of detergent?  Are you saying that all octanes of say, Shell, have the same detergent levels?

See below.  What one does not know is whether a marketer puts higher levels of detergent in premium than regular.  However, all grades of Top Tier must  meet TopTier detergent requirements.

 

Is TOP TIER™ only for premium gasoline or diesel? No. Premium describes a grade of fuel intended for use in performance engines with higher compression ratios, which may be damaged when using lower octane grade fuel. TOP TIER™ fuel marketers are required to use TOP TIER™ for all for all octane grades of gasoline and diesel sold at their stations. TOP TIER™ is a standard in fuel many automakers feel is necessary for acceptable engine cleanliness performance for all vehicles, regardless of octane requirements. All engines will benefit from a higher standard in cleanliness resulting in a vehicle performing as intended: noticeable in longevity, reduced down time, minimized emissions, and higher customer satisfaction.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Plus 3 Golfer

[WNY]

I just put a bottle of Techron Fuel Injector cleaner in mine. Have to give it some time to work thru. 

I have run the NOS Octane booster on long trips and it does seem to help get a few more MPG. 

I Have a long trip end of the month coming up, so getting it ready for it.

[raadsel]

I've been trying out the Lucas cleaner. I think it has done some good but much of it may be that the temperatures have been lower the last couple of weeks, so we'll see how it does longer term.

[Zathrus]

I have also started using the Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubrication & Injector Cleaner for the past 2 tanks. Have noticed ICE is quieter and appears to runs smoother (less vibration). Weather has been betting colder, so unable to easily determine if fuel economy has improved.

[Adrian_L]

Problem fixed.   
 

The vibration seemed to get better for awhile, so we didn't bother with the injector cleaner.  Then a few weeks ago, after a 30 minute drive on the highway the engine light started flashing and I experienced a rumble from under the front wheels.   Fortunately it was only 5 minutes to home.

 

OBDII indicated #3 cylinder misfiring and injector open.   I decided to replace all four injectors as they're only $40 each (Motorcraft CM-5148)   Fairly straightforward but I recommend you buy the special tool to disconnect the fuel line from the fuel rail.  They're about $5-10.

 

Car is running like new now.  Smooth as silk.  

[ptjones]

Problem fixed.   

 

The vibration seemed to get better for awhile, so we didn't bother with the injector cleaner.  Then a few weeks ago, after a 30 minute drive on the highway the engine light started flashing and I experienced a rumble from under the front wheels.   Fortunately it was only 5 minutes to home.

 

OBDII indicated #3 cylinder misfiring and injector open.   I decided to replace all four injectors as they're only $40 each (Motorcraft CM-5148)   Fairly straightforward but I recommend you buy the special tool to disconnect the fuel line from the fuel rail.  They're about $5-10.

 

Car is running like new now.  Smooth as silk.  

It would have been interesting if you have tried using the injector cleaner before replacing the injectors. :headscratch:  Maybe someone else will try it when they have problems to see if it makes a difference.

 

Paul