Expected life of HVB and cost to replace

[fbov]

1 hour ago, MaryB said:

Was considering buying a 2015 C-Max ... After reading this forum ... I have no business getting a hybrid.

Did we scare you off?

 

Sorry. Bunch of tech-types here, and we're the better for it, but it's voluntary. No need for a degree to drive the car, but if you're interested, there are more ways to play with a C-Max, than with a conventional car. If you're interested....

 

Now, the plug-in Energi model does have some issues, but they're confined to the plug-in. 

[jestevens]

I think there are only two things that make the car "different" from a practical standpoint:

 

You have to hold your foot on the brake when doing the push button start to start the engine and you press it again to shut off engine. A lot of other cars getting push button start now too.

 

For someone who has never driven a hybrid before the brakes are very touchy.  They are designed that way to help return energy to the battery, but with enough time and practice you get used to using the brake pedal to coast to a stop rather than just jamming on the brakes.

 

Other than that it drives just like any other car (that just happens to get 40MPG in a crossover.)

 

John

[homestead]

Is there a filter on the HVB fan?

[plus 3 golfer]

37 minutes ago, homestead said:

Is there a filter on the HVB fan?

No.

[SnowStorm]

Based on driving our 2013 SE for 210k miles I would certainly encourage buying a C-Max - points to make:

1. The hybrid battery doesn't fail - I can't recall hearing of a single failure and I've followed this forum constantly since 2013.  Not saying it can't happen but just not a concern.
2. Without failures there's little (if any) information on costs but there should be plenty of used battery packs available from wrecking yards should one ever be needed.
3. You don't need to analyze anything - just drive it like any other car and you'll still get great mileage.  There are little things you can do to improve mileage if you get interested but a lot of those work on any car.  As one member posted years ago, the car still cares [about saving gas] even if you don't!
4. Extreme temperatures affect all cars.  You might notice it more with a hybrid, since the mileage numbers are so much higher to start with, but you're still way ahead overall.

After owning over a dozen cars I still consider the C-Max the "best" one overall!  And after 210k miles its still enjoyable to drive and I expect to go another 100k miles.

[ptjones]

With 261k miles on MADMAX the HVB is working just fine.?

 

Paul

[AS2014]

Glad to hear about the Hybrid battery lasting a lot longer and the mileage Paul and Snowstorm got so far on their Cmax.., Forita our 2013 C Max took a dent in the tailgate the other day , but it still closes and locks ok. Was told not worth fixing tailgate because value of car is roughly $4500  because we have 124.000 miles on her. We were thinking about trading her in with a heavy heart, because we were also concern about the Hybrid battery since Forita is now seven years old. But after reading your good reports, we decided to hold on to Forita. Thanks...

Edited October 31, 2020 by AS2014

[ArizonaEnergi]

I bought my Energi in Feb 2013 and it now has about 30,000 miles on it, all in Arizona.  EV driving has dropped to about 16-17 miles from the original 22-25, and sometimes is lower with A/C use.  A big disappointment but such is the life of an early-adopter. 

 

Unless it was $200 I can't see a economic justification for replacing the HV battery.

Edited November 10, 2020 by ArizonaEnergi

[scooter_scum]

On 10/11/2020 at 8:32 AM, C-MaxA2 said:

No responses seem to suggest it doesn't occur very much... I haven't heard of anyone mentioning that on-line and that environment tends to attract more issues than compliments.  Seems to be the same for the Prius as well - rare anyone talks about a dead HVB.

Well, I'm the canary in the coal mine.  My Ford CMAX Energi was all of 11 days out of warranty and my battery has failed.  Ford is asking me to pony up $15K to replace it.  The car drivability has dropped dramatically.  START/STOP no longer works.  Engine runs all the time (coasting, at stop lights, etc).  Acceleration is very sad with out the battery boost.  Our car has 87K miles, always garage kept except for long trips.  We are in a relatively cool climate and can't understand why our battery failed except for poor engineering/quality control from Ford.  Buyer beware!!!

[C-MaxA2]

What year is your Energi?  If I think ANYTHING is a bit weird I ask my dealer rep to put it in the service record. It's come back to helping me get warranty work done for free twice now.  

[scooter_scum]

2 hours ago, C-MaxA2 said:

What year is your Energi?  If I think ANYTHING is a bit weird I ask my dealer rep to put it in the service record. It's come back to helping me get warranty work done for free twice now.  

The CMAX was purchased 11/5/2012.  It is a 2013 model year.  It was diagnosed to need a battery on 11/16/2020.  I discussed the problem months ago when I picked up my replacement 110v recharge cord.  They said my Check Engine and/or Wrench would go away with the new cord.  Of course, I did not get that in writing.  With COVID I have been trying to stay safe for everybody.  

 

11 days.... I'm just so disappointed with Ford.  I think I might go to the dealership where I bought it and beg for their help.  

[homestead]

Don't replace the battery pack.  Try to get it repaired.

[jmcgliss]

On 10/25/2020 at 7:29 PM, MaryB said:

Glad to find this forum. Was considering buying a 2015 C-Max SEL, 84k miles, 1 owner, and was excited about entering the world of hybrids for the first time. I wanted to find out more about how long the hybrid battery might last and how much it could cost to repair. After reading this forum, I think unless I have a degree in hybrid auto mechanics, I have no business getting a hybrid. I definitely don't need a car that requires daily performance analysis. Not to mention, I live in the midwest - it gets cold in the winter, and hot in the summer, neither of which sounds good for performance. Thank you for a quick lesson in reality!

 

You might consider some positives.  C-Max Hybrids drive and handle very well because the chassis is engineered and screwed together well. Reliability seems good as a used car dealership near us routinely sells C-Max Hybrids with 130,000 miles (retired from municipal or utility fleet use). Here in the Chicago area, mileage does diminish during the coldest coldest months but is at its best during the summer months (not sure how hot your area gets).  Our Hybrid SE is well-suited to my wife's 40-minute suburban commute averaging 54-56mpg in summer and 42-44 in winter.  After 35,000 miles she is at  49mpg (combined seasons and including some expressway trips).  We are seriously considering buying out our lease in May.  Keep checking ads for the right mix of age, miles driven, and price. P.S. Did I emphasize my wife not only loves driving her C-Max Hybrid - she also loves the dashboard readout that is configurable and the positive feedback?  Or you can keep it simple and just monitor overall mileage. 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by jmcgliss

[jestevens]

scooter, if you don't want to pay someone to rebuild maybe you could get a used pack from a newer model Energi for less money?

 

I used to think Tesla was the gold standard until they started shipping cars with poor panel fit and glass roof not glued in.  For $50-$100K?  ..no thanks..

 

Interesting the dealer wants to charge $15,000 as I think Toyota will install a new NiMh pack on the Prius for $5-7K.  The pack chemistry IS different but really?

 

I'm not sure that my next car will be a Ford, it might be a Toyota or the VW ID Buzz but it's a shame the C-MAX got such a bad rap, I genuinely like the car.  The Hybrid Escape looks very similar.

 

My mom wants to buy a car for retirement since her corolla has 325K+ miles (the odometer stopped counting at 299,999).  I suggested to her to test drive the C-MAX, Escape, Corolla, Camry, Prius and RAV4 Hybrids.  All are nice cars IMO.  C-MAX is by far the least expensive because it got a bad reputation early on.  I have 107K mi on mine now and no issues.

 

John

Edited December 8, 2020 by jestevens

[NRGTi]

On 10/25/2020 at 6:29 PM, MaryB said:

Glad to find this forum. Was considering buying a 2015 C-Max SEL, 84k miles, 1 owner, and was excited about entering the world of hybrids for the first time. I wanted to find out more about how long the hybrid battery might last and how much it could cost to repair. After reading this forum, I think unless I have a degree in hybrid auto mechanics, I have no business getting a hybrid. I definitely don't need a car that requires daily performance analysis. Not to mention, I live in the midwest - it gets cold in the winter, and hot in the summer, neither of which sounds good for performance. Thank you for a quick lesson in reality!

It's not that bad. Don't overthink this, like so many of our knowledgable contributors tend to do. Some of them are engineers, some are computer geeks, and optimization is their game. You don't need to set up real-time telemetry on your battery. You needn't avoid  using the plug-in feature just so it will be preserved for the next owner to use. 

 

Just follow a few simple rules: 

- Save EV miles for city  streets and lower speeds

- Don't recharge in the heat if the day

- Switch to "EV Later" mode to save the last 2-4 miles of the battery (I remember to do this only about a third of the time.)

 

My initial EV-to-empty test at 25,000 miles showed 5 KWh consumed, which would be a 2% reduction in capacity. I'm doing my 50,000 miles test soon. If I wind up with 90% capacity after four years, that's acceptable. I'll still have 18 miles of EV range remaining, which is more than any other non-plugin car. The  figure that really matters is 60: that's my overall MPG since switching to stickier, runflat tires. 

[jzchen]

MSRP of the ENERGI battery is $6322.45.  Got a discounted price @ fordparts.com selecting my selling dealer of $5690.21.  It's supposedly 508.5 lbs...

[Billyk24]

15 hours ago, NRGTi said:

It's not that bad. Don't overthink this, like so many of our knowledgable contributors tend to do. Some of them are engineers, some are computer geeks, and optimization is their game. You don't need to set up real-time telemetry on your battery. You needn't avoid  using the plug-in feature just so it will be preserved for the next owner to use. 

 

Just follow a few simple rules: 

- Save EV miles for city  streets and lower speeds

- Don't recharge in the heat if the day

- Switch to "EV Later" mode to save the last 2-4 miles of the battery (I remember to do this only about a third of the time.)

 

My initial EV-to-empty test at 25,000 miles showed 5 KWh consumed, which would be a 2% reduction in capacity. I'm doing my 50,000 miles test soon. If I wind up with 90% capacity after four years, that's acceptable. I'll still have 18 miles of EV range remaining, which is more than any other non-plugin car. The  figure that really matters is 60: that's my overall MPG since switching to stickier, runflat tires. 

My initial EV-to-empty test at 25,000 miles showed 5 KWh consumed, which would be a 2% reduction in capacity.-------5.6kWh is understood as the new capacity.  At 5.0, you have a 11% reduction in capacity.  

[NRGTi]

Thanks for that correction, Billy. Today I did my 50,000 mile test. I got 4.3 KWh out of the HVB, which works out to a 26% loss in capacity. That's not the good news I hoped for. Overall, though, the car still give exceptional economy. After the HVB was gone, it still scored in the high 40s mpg on the rest of my fast freeway trip in 95 degree temperatures. The overall fuel use, reset 10K ago when I changed tires, still hovers around 60 mpg. 

This suggests that the car might have only 50% HVB capacity at eight years old. I'll deal with that at the time, but for now, this is still of of the most efficient cars I could get. 

[A2mike]

On 6/17/2021 at 11:51 PM, NRGTi said:

Thanks for that correction, Billy. Today I did my 50,000 mile test. I got 4.3 KWh out of the HVB, 

How do you measure that? I know simply driving and then reading the display in the car will also include some regen.

My 2016 has gone up from showing 16-17 EV miles to up to 24-25 now. Could that be the way I drive or maybe the previous owner never plugged it in so the computer was estimating?

 

[fbov]

Don't discount the benefit of warm weather. Your EV range should peak when it's in the mid-70's, and drop severely once you use heat, since it's an electric heater in the Energi. 

[A2mike]

On 7/21/2021 at 6:25 PM, fbov said:

Don't discount the benefit of warm weather. Your EV range should peak when it's in the mid-70's, and drop severely once you use heat, since it's an electric heater in the Energi. 

I got the car at this time last year when it showed 16mi of EV range. It has gone up since then. I value charge from 5:00 a.m. so when I leave at 7:30, the battery probably has some heat in it. I also pre-warm the car from 240v so I never use the heat from the battery, only the ICE. I did see the EV range increase plateau for a while from Dec. through Feb. and then continue to increase to where it is today.

My question remains on how to measure the amount of power pulled from the battery. I am currently at 55k miles and would like to compare.

Thanks.

[cr08]

The common technique is to drive in EV only from a full charge and keep going until the battery is depleted and the ICE kicks on. Stop and shut off the car and the trip summary on the dash should show how many kwh you've used. 5.5kwh or thereabouts is brand new. 4-5kwh seems to be about the common level of degradation for most. This is also the most reliable way to measure battery capacity and degradation. Kwh is not going to change (at least not significantly) with weather/driving habits/etc.. The 'guess-o-meter' with the estimated miles can be all over the place however based on all those factors.

[A2mike]

So the energy from the regenerative braking does not add to the kwh used?

Any trek I take would have many stops and it will show the number of miles from braking so I am curious how that factors into the kwh used.

Does the computer know how much it put in from braking and then subtract it from the total kwh used that it shows when the car is turned off?

Would the best test be to simply drive with no stops until the engine kicked in?

Thanks.

Mike.

Edited July 31, 2021 by A2mike

[energicolo]

On 6/17/2021 at 9:51 PM, NRGTi said:

Thanks for that correction, Billy. Today I did my 50,000 mile test. I got 4.3 KWh out of the HVB, which works out to a 26% loss in capacity. That's not the good news I hoped for. Overall, though, the car still give exceptional economy. After the HVB was gone, it still scored in the high 40s mpg on the rest of my fast freeway trip in 95 degree temperatures. The overall fuel use, reset 10K ago when I changed tires, still hovers around 60 mpg. 

This suggests that the car might have only 50% HVB capacity at eight years old. I'll deal with that at the time, but for now, this is still of of the most efficient cars I could get. 

 

My Energi battery had degraded to just over 4 kWh after about 90,000 miles (6 years). Finally I saw the tips from some battery gurus on the old Energi forum (raj in particular), including leaving a smidgen of charge in the battery at all times, avoiding hot-sun charging, etc. Now that I'm at 125,000 miles and 8 years, the rate of depletion seems to have slowed--I'm now just under 4 kWh. So that's a hopeful sign.

[Billyk24]

On 7/31/2021 at 1:08 AM, energicolo said:

 

My Energi battery had degraded to just over 4 kWh after about 90,000 miles (6 years). Finally I saw the tips from some battery gurus on the old Energi forum (raj in particular), including leaving a smidgen of charge in the battery at all times, avoiding hot-sun charging, etc. Now that I'm at 125,000 miles and 8 years, the rate of depletion seems to have slowed--I'm now just under 4 kWh. So that's a hopeful sign.

How did you read tips on the old Engeri forum when it no longer exists?