CMAX Grill Cover Testing, 2-5 MPG Gain

[hybridbear]

Did that change as part of the fuel economy ECU flash? What did they change about the shutters?

That is correct. The shutters used to open every time you came to a stop as well as anytime the car was in Park. This meant that in the dead of winter when you'd stop at a red light the shutters would open. The shutters used to also open anytime the A/C was on even if the ICE was completely cold. Now they'll only partially open or will stay closed longer when the A/C is on depending on the A/C temps & ICE temps.

[ptjones]

Did that change as part of the fuel economy ECU flash? What did they change about the shutters?

Now the shutters open fully between 210-215*F depending on speed, they are either open or closed, no in between. :)

 

Paul

Edited January 15, 2015 by ptjones

[Zathrus]

Now the shutters open fully between 210-215*F depending on speed, they are ether open or closed no in between. :)

 

Paul

 

Paul,

 

Do you know approximately where 210-215*F would be on the My View temperature gauge reading (e.g. is it 2/3 way up on temperature gauge range)?  Thanks.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Zathrus

[ptjones]

It's been two days since I've filled up with Premium, temps in mid 30's front of car all taped up and highest WT 193*F and IT 83*F still my average with 118mi is 50.3mpg, speeds 35-55mph. So if the temps were in the 70's I'd be getting about 56mpg.

 

Paul,

 

Do you know approximately where 210-215*F would be on the My View temperature gauge reading (e.g. is it 2/3 way up on temperature gauge range)?  Thanks.

Unfortunately Smart Temp Gauge isn't real useful other than to see if you are over heating. It hits the middle at around 180*F and stays there to about 225*F when it starts to move up. Top line is 247*F and you will get the red triangle over heating message. :)

 

Paul

[ptjones]

I just made a trip to AZ and back and I experimented with controlling WT with heater and Lower Grill removal and reinstalling.  To start with I had all three grills covered and then added clear packing tape to cover up all joints around head lights, hood and fog lamps. So the only air getting into engine compartment was from underneath and wheel wells.  The thermostat starts to open around 180*F and is Fully open at 202*F.  Normal operating temps are 202-212*F according to FORD Hotline Assistance Request and shutters open up at 215*F with update at FWY speeds confirmed by web cam.

 

Things I learned on My  latest trip to AZ and back are I got maybe 1mpg better keeping WT in the 200*F-215*F over 220*F-230*F range (Smart Gauge WT starts to move off middle at 228*F) .

Second: Having the whole front end taped didn't change the 2mpg drop for every 10*F drop in temp.  At 20*F I was getting 39.5mpg and 40*F/43.5mpg.

Third: Tapping off top grill raised IT by +20*F-30*F vs open.

Forth: P&G is worth at least 2mpg over running ICE all the time with help from EV assist  and the WT ran cooler at FWY speeds.

 

I was hoping by keeping ICE compartment warmer it would help the drop of mpg's with outside temp drop. It may help overall mpg's, but  not the periodic 2mpg drop. :)

Paul

[SPL Tech]

I dont understand how the grills help so much. I drove in 35 degree weather this weekend and found the engine warms up enough to turn off after only a few minutes of driving. After that the vehicle drives like a normal hybrid (e.g. ICE shuts off when you press on the brake, it doesent idle).

[ptjones]

I dont understand how the grills help so much. I drove in 35 degree weather this weekend and found the engine warms up enough to turn off after only a few minutes of driving. After that the vehicle drives like a normal hybrid (e.g. ICE shuts off when you press on the brake, it doesent idle).

It only needs to get to 128*F WT to do that, it is not very efficient at that temp. Remember 202-212*F is the Operating temperature for the ICE according to FORD which would give the best MPG's. Interesting that not one person that has used Grill Covers doesn't say they work. ;)  Why don't you make some and try for your self. :)  BTW get a ScanGaugeII so you watch what is happening yourself.

Paul

Edited July 14, 2015 by ptjones

[ptjones]

I was just thinking that if you are thinking of using Packing Tape to close off the grills make sure that it is the thick clear plastic tape. The thin tape tares to easy which makes for a difficult time trying to remove it as I just found out again. LOL  You can use Goo Off, paint thinner or Car Wax to rub off the adhesive. It is a good idea to Wax the areas you are going to apply tape too to make it easier to get off. :) 

Paul 

[fbov]

... I drove in 35 degree weather this weekend...

I'll post some data once I fill in the sub-20F range, but early data says that 35F isn't really "cold" but rather on the threshold. I'm seeing MPG start to fall below the fair-weather temperature-mileage trend line at that point, but the interesting stuff is at lower temps. Stay tuned.

 

It only needs to get to 128*F WT to do that (ICE turn off, ed.)...

Yes and no. There are times when WT isn't the only criteria, though I doubt you'll ever see it.

 

I've had three cases of sub-zero overnight lows, followed by a morning commute where ICE is on well after WT is mid-gauge. It's taking at least 10 miles to warm up to normal operation. I suspect it's a battery issue; I can only EV after cycling the battery through some charge-discharge cycles, and at first, it's limited, like with a cold ICE. Very hard to EV when you only have 0.1 bar! Negative split mode is the only option, but a useful one...

 

Anyone in the northern states been following this thread? Any of you see what I'm describing? Only happens after zero-ish or lower temps, during the following morning's commute.

 

Have fun,

Frank

[ptjones]

I wonder if you could run a 120v heater in the back of your car to keep your HVB a little harm to see if you get a different result? :)  Were you able to get ICE heater installed?  Getting to middle of temp gauge means 180+*F.

 

Paul

[hybridbear]

I'll post some data once I fill in the sub-20F range, but early data says that 35F isn't really "cold" but rather on the threshold. I'm seeing MPG start to fall below the fair-weather temperature-mileage trend line at that point, but the interesting stuff is at lower temps. Stay tuned.

 

Yes and no. There are times when WT isn't the only criteria, though I doubt you'll ever see it.

 

I've had three cases of sub-zero overnight lows, followed by a morning commute where ICE is on well after WT is mid-gauge. It's taking at least 10 miles to warm up to normal operation. I suspect it's a battery issue; I can only EV after cycling the battery through some charge-discharge cycles, and at first, it's limited, like with a cold ICE. Very hard to EV when you only have 0.1 bar! Negative split mode is the only option, but a useful one...

 

Anyone in the northern states been following this thread? Any of you see what I'm describing? Only happens after zero-ish or lower temps, during the following morning's commute.

 

Have fun,

Frank

Cold HVB. See this post: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7492-understanding-the-ffh-better-with-a-scangauge/?p=74042

 

Edit:

Also see these posts, in fact, you may enjoy reading that entire thread. They're Energi themed, but the basic principles apply to the hybrid too.

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1683-obd-ii-data-for-hvb/?p=11084

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1683-obd-ii-data-for-hvb/?p=11779

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1683-obd-ii-data-for-hvb/?p=18568

Edited January 25, 2015 by hybridbear

[fbov]

Cold HVB. See this post: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7492-understanding-the-ffh-better-with-a-scangauge/?p=74042

Yep; that's it!

 

Has me wondering if I need a battery heater more than I need an engine coolant heater... Engine's warm in a few miles, while the battery's taking about 10! Maybe I ought to turn up the cabin heat so the HVB heats up faster? Learning to drive in negative split mode an awful lot, but minding the RPM (in Myview) got me over 40 MPG today (3F overnight).

 

Have fun,

Frank

Edited January 26, 2015 by fbov

[ptjones]

What about a small space heater in the car an hour before you leave in the morning? Might be a good experiment. :)

 

Paul

[SPL Tech]

a

Edited January 27, 2015 by SPL Tech

[Jbtbga]

ptjones,

I know you aren't making the covers now.  A shame, as the packing tape is bumping me up 4-5 mpg even in the cold weather.  This would be a great use for a 3D printer.   Anyone have one???

[ptjones]

ptjones,

I know you aren't making the covers now.  A shame, as the packing tape is bumping me up 4-5 mpg even in the cold weather.  This would be a great use for a 3D printer.   Anyone have one???

I would make them if I had a dozen CMAXers request them, I like helping members out, but I have to order couple sheets of LEXAN. Plus I can't get very efficient making them unless I have a dozen  or so to make. If enough members PM me I would consider making them. :)

 

Paul

[Jbtbga]

Paul,

Would you be willing to make a new topic  / post on here and ask for orders?

Joel

[ptjones]

Smart Gauge WT Gauge does change temp continuously.  I changed my mind for the Smart Gauge MyView Display to Power+Threshold/ WT gauge to get better MPG's.

:)

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Yesterday  with outside temp at 20*F I drove into town, back to the house, to work, back  to the house and then back to work.

This shows how well Grill Covers work. I used Block, Oil and Trans Heaters to start with.

1.  8.3mi.  47.9mpg

2.  11.1mi  54.6mpg

3.  2.4mi.   46mpg

4.  2.4mi.    80mpg

5.  2.4mi.    35.2mpg

For an average of about 52.5MPG :happy feet:

 

Paul

 

Paul

[Adrian_L]

I would be interested in trying out grill covers if they were substantial and I could just take them on and off like clip-on shades for glasses (only analogy I could think off).  Plexiglass, fiberglass, lexan--whatever.

 

Not crazy about using packing tape although I'm not suggesting they don't help.

[ptjones]

I would be interested in trying out grill covers if they were substantial and I could just take them on and off like clip-on shades for glasses (only analogy I could think off).  Plexiglass, fiberglass, lexan--whatever.

 

Not crazy about using packing tape although I'm not suggesting they don't help.

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:252]   I use to make the Grill Covers, but here is the info on them. I can put them on and take off in just a few seconds. :)    Paul

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:715]

 

Edited February 22, 2015 by ptjones

[ptjones]

Got First over 700mi tank this year, 717.2mi to be exact with 13.5gal.  With weather improving CMAXers you should be able to get 600+ mile tanks. If you really work at it 700+ tanks. :shift: :clapping:

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Well I finally did it!  :yahoo:  I made the lower Grill Cover automatic by connecting it to the shutters so when they open the lower Grill Cover opens.

 

Automatic Lower Grill Cover parts and fixture for making spacer rods.

Lower Grill Cover open

Lower Grill Cover open

Lower Grill Cover closed

Lower Grill Cover closed

 

 

Paul

Edited July 14, 2015 by ptjones

[Taz]

If you ever make another set of covers, count me in. I would definitely be interested. I picked up a NRG not long ago and this could help when I am not driving in the desert.

[ptjones]

If you ever make another set of covers, count me in. I would definitely be interested. I picked up a NRG not long ago and this could help when I am not driving in the desert.

Use Center Grill Cover all year, there is no need to take it off.  Lower Grill Cover I leave on until the Trans gets hot >180*F and then I pull the tape off the five holes in the cover to let more air through.  I would have to buy some more sheets of LEXAN to make anymore Grill Covers. If there was enough interest I might make some more.

 

Well my first automatic opener doesn't work very well because of the looseness of the rods and the amount air pressure on the cover. So I'm working on model 2 to cure the problems with first one. ;) 

 

Paul