ptjones

Posted Yesterday, 04:00 PM Plus 3 Golfer, on 21 May 2016 - 5:19 PM, said: I got my wife to help me video the shutter operations with WebCam, LapTop, ScanGaugeII and IPhone 6+. I have YouTube links to two videos. You can see shutters open at 215-216*F going 65 mph and close at 214*F. Also see A/C vs shutter operation when turned on and off. These videos were done with both Center and Lower Grills covered up and OT of 85*F. Needless to say my wife was a real trooper to put up with those temps and also covered up with black material to get the glare down on the Lap Top. BTW I used a piece of masking tape to make it easier to see the shutters move. Not a professional job, but I think you will get the Idea. :) Video 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ekAoVqEGjc Video 2: If you have a problem you can search you tube for 2013 CMAX Shutter Test Paul

Plus 3 Golfer said: Posted 21 May 2016 - 04:19 PM And as I said before, when I monitored with my web cam, I saw positions between closed and open. I do have a new laptop so I should be able to record the operations now. But, I believe the ForScan data and when I monitor data, I can clearly see that the inferred / commanded shutter operation does affect ECT. I just went out to the garage and verified that the ForScan app is reading the position of the grille shutters. Start car with AC OFF, grille shutters are closed. Push AC ON, and grille shutters open to 100%. This tracked the commanded and inferred grille shutter positions in ForScan. It's too much of a hassle to video record the shutters while driving. I have no doubt that ForScan is correctly reporting the grille shutter positions. Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 21 May 2016 - 06:13 PM.

ptjones Posted 21 May 2016 - 01:57 PM I know we have been this way before, but after the ECM update watching shutters with WEB Cam they only were open all the way or closed all the way, no in between. I need to get another Web Cam to monitor speed and WT. IIRC shutters would open at 210*F WT below 55mph and 215*F WT above 55mph. :) Paul Paul Jones - A true FORD man! 2013 Ford C-MAX SEL 2013 Ford Explorer Limited EcoBoost Current Record: 12/30/2014 902.2 mi. 63.8 mpg 14.13 gal. (Actual GPS: 922 mi. 68.3 mpg 13.5 gal.) QuoteMultiQuoteEdit

I decided to move shutter discussion here were it should be. Plus 3 Golfer said:C-Max Hybrid Member 1,503 postsRegion:DeclineLocationTNMy C-MAX's Year:2013My C-MAX's Color:Oxford WhiteCurrent Vehicle:2013Posted 19 May 2016 - 05:15 PM I've recorded lots of data on shutter operations and ECT. Here's my observations and facts (to set the record straight :) ).. 1) Engine coolant thermostat starts to open at around 180 F and should be fully open at 202 F (this is the spec.) 2) HVAC operation, speed, ECT, and ambient temperature determine shutter opening. 3) When AC is ON and speed is above 50 mph, the shutters immediately open to 40% and increase in opening based on ambient temperature above around 70F+. 4) When AC is ON and speed is below 50 mph, shutter opening is based on speed - increasing from 40% opening as speed decreases. 5) When AC is OFF, shutters are fully closed below around 192 F and fully open above around 212 F and can be in various states of opening between 192 F and 212 F 6) So, when ambient temperature is low (say around 32 F), it's unlikely that the ECT ever will get to 202 F (thermostat fully open) as the grille shutters will begin to operate if ECT ever makes it to around 192 F. This is where the addition of grille covers can significantly increase the operating temperature of ICE as virtually no air gets to the radiator (shutters closed below 192 F or shutters in a state of opening above 192 F and grille blocks on). Even at around 50F ambient with grille blocks, ECT rarely gets to 212 F in normal driving except when on the interstates at high speed going up long grades. I've seen ECT at 234 F at 70+ mph and around 50F ambient going up grades at 70+ mph. On relatively flat interstates, ECT would generally be around 220+- F. In summary, with grille blocks one should see an increase in FE due to higher ICE operating temperatures and due to better aerodynamics with the grille blocks (no box in front of the grille shutters, just a smooth curved surface). Here's a couple of graphs I put together a while ago showing ambient temp and speed vs grille commanded opening and AC ON and OFF operation. Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 19 May 2016 - 08:25 PM. obob and livesmith like this

Great Job! :yahoo: We need to add you to the list. :) Paul

PCM doesn't have anyway of knowing whether air is going through radiator or not . There is no feed back loop for shutter motor, one time I was trying to automate lower Grill Cover and managed to screw two of the shutters together, PCM never reported a problem. I figured out the problem myself. WT is the main mover with speed having a minor effect on shutter position( open or closed) the couple of times that I have tested shutter operations. BTW I find it difficult to get to 215*FWT with Grill Covers removed. I wish you would do a video so we could see shutter operating. If you need some help let me know, Thanks :) Paul

I don't believe this would matter, because it would be averaged out on a long trip. I talked to Garmin which they did say that GPS is alot more accurate than a automotive odometer. The support person said they do have info internally, but can't release it publicly. ;) Maybe a legal thing. I see a difference between new tires and old on my Garmin nuvi 765T. Paul

I got my wife to help me video the shutter operations with WebCam, LapTop, ScanGaugeII and IPhone 6+. I have YouTube links to two videos. You can see shutters open at 215-216*F going 65 mph and close at 214*F. Also see A/C vs shutter operation when turned on and off. These videos were done with both Center and Lower Grills covered up and OT of 85*F. Needless to say my wife was a real trooper to put up with those temps and also covered up with black material to get the glare down on the Lap Top. BTW I used a piece of masking tape to make it easier to see the shutters move. Not a professional job, but I think you will get the Idea. :) Video 1: Video 2: If you have a problem you can search you tube for 2013 CMAX Shutter Test Paul

I think we have some confusion here, I believe you are referring to wheel well cover which may not be perfectly parallel with the ground, but close enough. BTW I did bevel the edges to improve aero. Yesterday I went 140 mi. on I-85, I-285 and GA400 to Alpharetta and back. I averaged about 53 mpg for the trip and 54.1mpg/750mi. on tank. My first tank with no mods I got 47mpg so it would look like I've gained 7mpg with all my mods. :) Concerning GPS distance I checked a pretty straight section of I-40 for 400 mi. odometer and GPS gave 408.8 miles or 1.022%. When tread is worn down I have seen as low as 1.014% off, always more miles than odometer. :) Given your example the GPS value should be smaller than odometer I would think. :headscratch: Paul

1/8" Covers don't stick out as far as tires and I have 1/8" foam insulation tape under LEXAN to seal the wheel. Easy to take off and on. Also have 1/4" plastic screw going through Cover and sticking out 1 1/4" on inside to make sure Cover doesn't spin and unscrew. :) Paul

Here is my solution for now. DIYS LEXAN Wheel Covers. :) Paul

How many miles and have you changed the direction of rotation? :) Paul

I know we have been this way before, but after the ECM update watching shutters with WEB Cam they only were open all the way or closed all the way, no in between. I need to get another Web Cam to monitor speed and WT. IIRC shutters would open at 210*F WT below 55mph and 215*F WT above 55mph. :) Paul

No I don't, but I put headers and dual port manifold on it along with some arrow dynamic aids and was able to get up to 30 miles per gallon with a four speed transmission

I also agree, we miss you and wish you would come back Frank, lets have fun again. :) Paul

The thermostat starts to open at 182*F and you can watch WT go up pretty quickly and then stop when the thermostat starts to open. ;) I learned alot about the ICE operation when I installed my ScanGaugeII. It would seem everything you knew about a regular ICE you can through out the window. Hybrids are a new ballgame. :) Paul

Unfortunately this is not true and to make matters worse using the A/C keeps the fan running all the time and makes WT even cooler. City driving the ICE runs less than it does on the highway. This is the reason I developed Grill Covers which can improve MPG's up to 4 mpg. If you want to test this out for yourself get a ScanGaugeII or similar OBDII gauge and monitor ICE WT. You will see that it almost never reaches 202*F the start of ICE WT operating range. :) Paul

VIP TAXI in Phoenix has a fleet of 2013 CMAX Hybrids with upto 250k miles with no ICE problems. :) Paul

Here is a link to CMAX ENERGY Forum where their are videos describing this problem: http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/4836-my-bad-whats-your-vote-replace-2-or-4-tires/ It would appear for wet roads new tires in back assuming fronts have 50% tread, but for snowy roads you want the good ones on the front. :) Paul

I think the ICE is designed for it, with 132k mi. on mine with little to no oil usage. :) I would expect CMAX ICE to last longer, it runs half as much as Prius. We haven't heard of failed ICE on CMAX that I'm aware of. :) There are probably 250K CMAX/FFH out their now in three yrs, 8 months of being available. :) Paul

I wish someone made Solid Dish Wheels to make the car more aerodynamic. :headscratch: Curious, I had a 73 Pinto Wagon. LOL :) Paul

I personally would put new tires on the front, because the rears just follow the fronts and all the work is done with the fronts. :) Paul

Welcome, I call mine MADMAX after it hit a deer. ;) Paul

Doesn't also charge the 12v batt when you charge the HVB?

I sold a set of Grill Covers to CMAX Owner Alaska,LOL. :) Going I-20 - I-10 across Texas is about 850 miles, one day of driving. ;) Paul