HotPotato

Update: the loud grinding during left turns was (as I realized upon turning off the radio) also accompanied by a soft whomp whomp from the right front wheel, increasing with speed to an outright knock at freeway speed. Took it to dealer today and it needs a new front wheel bearing; luckily I should squeak in before the powertrain warranty ends. Kind of wondering why they didn't notice this during the test drive after the trans install, but all's well that hopefully ends well.

I wonder if your OEM tires were different from mine -- I've heard that sometimes manufacturers will fit a different tire depending on the region where the car's being shipped. Turn-in was sharper and dry grip was better with my OEM Michelins, but they lost the plot when the surface got wet. (Not really a problem in year 7 of the drought where I live.)

IT'S BACK! Dropped off the car 10/20/16, got it back 11/4/16 with a new transmission. Only problem is a rubbing when making a sharp left turn at low speed. I suspect the tech left some sort of underbody shroud incompletely attached or the like, but I can't see anything under there. Back to the dealer I go, I s'pose. It's amazing we got to this point. Here's the back story! Many times in the last year I tried to get the dealer to diagnose and fix the grinding and rubbing noises, but they blew me off every time with increasingly lame excuses per below---all of them despite attaching the TSB: "They all do that." No they don't."It didn't make any noise on the lift." Right, since I told you the noise happens when in gear and moving. And even after the second noise joined the party--the one that happened even in neutral: "We couldn't diagnose it because the engine keeps turning off." It's a hybrid, they do that; just floor the gas to restart it.And finally "Yeah, I can sure hear it but I guess the mechanic couldn't; next time make him take a ride with you." Really, they don't drive a car to diagnose a problem that happens while driving? Shouldn't you have mentioned this when I dropped it off? Oh, and: "You might just want to trade it; a transmission repair would take a while, and you won't get a loaner.". I called Ford Customer Care on 10/4/16 and asked for two things: that they have a hybrid specialist call the dealer and explain the TSB before I took it in again, and that they provide me a rental since I'd wasted enough days already. The guy was really nice. He confirmed that the TSB applied given the symptoms and build date, and gave me the name and number of a customer service person and told me she'd call me the next day. She didn't. Or any other day over the next two weeks, though I called and left messages every couple of days. All I got was a disjointed text message. So I called the main customer care line again and asked to have my case reassigned to someone else. "Can't do that," said a different and not so nice guy, "she's the regional customer service manager. Is the car at the shop now?" No, because I wanted you guys to speak to them fir--- "Car needs to be at the shop." OK, I'll take it there right away, please let me speak to my contact person first so she can let them know it's coming. "She may not pick up, but I'll try." Interminable hold ensues, and then my customer service person picks up the line. "We're getting this sorted for you right now. When you get to the dealer, ask for the service manager, his name is X, and he'll be waiting for you, and a rental will be waiting for you as well." Great, thank you! Left immediately, went to the dealer, asked to speak to the service manager as directed. "He just left." He what? Is he coming back? "Don't know, he didn't say." So I explain to the new guy and ask to have a mechanic ride with me. "I'm getting our master mechanic over here. Make the noise happen. We can't fix it for you if you don't make it happen." Eventually the mechanic comes over and gets in the car, and I take him on a nice long test drive to get an earful of all the sounds. He says nothing at all. We pull back in to the dealer, Mr. Strong Silent Type gets out silently, and my rental car is waiting. Joy! About two weeks go by with no update from the dealer. Finally I go down there and see the car on the lift. Mr. Not-The-Service-Manager greets me. "Should be ready for you tomorrow." Great! What did they do? *looks at me like I'm an idiot* "Put a new tranny in." And here we are. It was so lovely to drive the C-Max again...unlike my rental Chrysler 200, it doesn't tremble like an earthquake at idle. And now it doesn't make horrifying noises either! Well, except that left-turn thing...hopefully it will do that for the dealer. Ford: the cars you love to drive and hate to own.

I switched to Pirelli P7 AS tires, as the tire shop guy said he recommended them for all C-Max drivers. The good: they are extremely quiet, they ride softer than the Michelins, they have a long treadwear rating, their steering precision isn't bad, and they were a little cheaper than the Michelins, especially after the rebate offer. The bad: they have pitiful dry traction (whee, you can do a burnout on launch! oops, also when cornering or trying to brake!), and one of the tires is sufficiently out of round to cause an annoying vibration at all highway speeds, but not ENOUGH out of round for Pirelli to agree to replace it under warranty. A failure of quality control and accountability would be expected if I'd ordered some Hangzhou Zhongce tires on Alibaba, but not on a set of Pirellis. But the one bum donut aside, if you live somewhere there's actual weather, these could be a good choice. I was caught in an freak heavy rainstorm, and the tires were superglued to the highway at speeds that had my fellow Southern Californians slip-sliding away from their lanes. The huge grooves between the treads may not leave much rubber for dry grip, but they evacuate oceans of water and concentrate weight for wet grip. And there's lots of siping (tiny S curves cut into the treads), even on the edges of the sidewalls, so you could probably power through snow with these puppies too. They'd be a fine tire for the right climate. Just not the one where I live.

One year later to the day, I happen to pop into this thread again and ssee this post! Better late than never, me! I'll PM you.

Bluetooth gives a little less bass vs. USB, but is otherwise just fine, and certainly louder than the 3.5" jack input. The main thing that affects audio quality in Spotify isn't Bluetooth -- it's the audio quality you have your Spotify app set to. If you let it default to 96kBps, it will sound, to put it politely, sub-optimal. At max quality (320?) it will sound quite good but it will eat up your cell plan's data MB. So, if you're a paying Spotify customer, take advantage of the option to download the actual music files to your phone while you're at home on wi-fi. Similarly, I've never had stuttering as a result of Bluetooth itself, only due to a poor data connection. YMMV.

Mine has the loud obnoxious AC compressor too, and the not-very-loud coffee-can-of-rocks grind, but this new noise is more of an arrrwarrrr, waaaaarrrrrrr type sound varying with engine speed.

I'm at 53k-ish now. The rubbing/grinding noise is still there, a little louder now, and it has been joined by a loud, whiny, wavery arrrrrrrrr noise. The grinding occurs when the car is moving. The whiny arrrr is loudest by far when the ICE is on (otherwise it can't be heard when stopped). Pop the hood with the ICE on and the whine seems to be coming from somewhere beneath the inverter. People whose transmissions have failed, please tell me: 1. Are these sounds anything like what you heard when your trans went? 2. What else might these sounds be if not the trans? 3. What had to happen before your dealer would actually do something about it? The whine is so loud and obnoxious that it turns heads on the street, but apparently that's still too quiet for my dealer's mechanics to make an effort. Something tells me the used-car manager would find the noises plenty loud enough to refuse my trade on grounds of mechanical issues; perhaps I should try that tactic. Fuel economy seems to be taking a bit of a dip, but it's hard to know if that's related, with the lifetime average dropping from 38.1 to 37.7 in the time the whine has been audible.

Frank, what's going on? When you first joined the forum, you were so friendly and constructive that it was a real treat to read anything you had to say. But gradually your manner grew disdainful toward anyone whose perspective didn't mirror yours. That doesn't benefit understanding or camaraderie. When you feel like the other person's an idiot--maybe they are. Or maybe you didn't explain yourself clearly. Or maybe you're mistaken and they're correct. Or maybe the two of you aren't quite having the same conversation---maybe it's idle chit-chat and nobody needs to be right. A little humility can't hurt. Just my 2 cents. Carry on. :-)

Do you never stop to pee or eat? Because an EV with a DC fast charge connector can recharge to 80% of capacity in about 20 minutes. A 200-mile EV will have about double the size battery of a current EV, so let's say 40 minutes. The main thing now is building enough charging infrastructure that it doesn't require careful planning.

Run-flats ride notoriously hard; it's consistently reviewers' chief complaint about BMWs.

It makes no difference to me whether they deal with this by fixing the cars, scrapping them and paying off the owners, or leaving them as-is and offsetting the same amount of pollution by other means. The trouble with "fixing" is that it may affect performance, MPG, and reliability, and owners may not go for that, either refusing or reversing the updates, as in the bad old early days of smog control devices on gas-powered cars. Some offsets that have been used in the past for pollution reduction include: pay to repower old 18-wheeler trucks and near-shore boats with cleaner enginespay to install catalyzed diesel particulate traps on school buses and city busespay for exhaust scrubbers on coal power plantTo which we can now apparently add, pay to build more charging stations, and build more electric cars. May I humbly suggest some DC quick chargers at public highway rest stops in California in the stretch between San Luis Obispo and Silicon Valley, and the stretch between Marin County and the Oregon border, so that travelers in and through the Golden State need not restrict their EVs to urban use only...

Hi Andrea. I have been in that very scenario. Biggest issues are likely distance and weather. When you set out in the morning, especially if it's cold, your C-Max will fire the engine for a few miles to warm up the heater, get the catalytic converter to operating temperature, and get the hybrid battery to 50% state of charge. If you've already at your destination by the time that's done, then the benefits of a hybrid (e.g. cycling the engine off when not needed) don't really get a chance to kick in...instead, you have essentially just driven your Vibe to the office. For a while I had a very short drive to work and a very similar issue, about 23-24 mpg on my super-short commute. The MPG of an ordinary car also suffers in a short-distance cold-weather scenario, BTW. For example, my old 2006 Mazda 3, very similar to your Vibe, got about 18-19 mpg on that same short-cold route. But that's a small portion of your total lifetime driving. My Mazda had a 27.5 MPG lifetime average; my C-Max has a 37.8 MPG lifetime average. A longer shot: The C-Max was recalled at one point for a software update. If the dealer never did it, mileage will suffer a little (though the car will be a little more enjoyable to drive, frankly). If the dealer tried but failed to properly complete the update, then mileage can suffer a lot (that happened to someone on this forum). Your dealer should be able to check and, if necessary, try re-applying it. And a parting thought: Someone on this forum is always going to advocate blocking the drill and overinflating the tires, and with all due respect to hypermilers, I will not do those things because I'm certain Ford understands the car better than I do, not vice-versa. I would, however, keep the tires inflated to the pressures stated on the panel inside the driver's door frame (low tire pressure will cost you a bit of MPG). P.S. The hybrid system also means you have a lot of torque, which is fun when it's dry but can lead to needlessly triggering the traction control when it's icy (which brakes the slipping wheel). But it sounds like you're savvy and know to baby the throttle in winter anyway.

Not sure I'd want to go down in power or sit closer to a pointlessly raised floor (microvans are more useful than CUVs), but that Kia is almost shockingly good-looking. They poached Audi's former design chief and it is paying off.

Highly inaccurate in just about every way...looks like clickbait to me.

That one is supposed to be so hyper-efficient that you can power it off existing wiring, without running a dedicated power lead from the battery; and so small that you can tuck it in behind the factory stereo. I'm a little dubious about using it like that: could it really pull enough power that way, and wouldn't it add enough heat in an enclosed space to cook itself and the factory stereo? So mine is not hooked up like that. It has its own power lead, is under the seat for more air circulation, and powers only midrange and treble. It works pretty well like that. I'd be more inclined to try this one for your application -- http://www.crutchfield.com/S-P6vPbpPfzOD/p_20611DX2K4/Kicker-11DX200-4.html. It has noise rejection, so you won't get a hum when the headlights are on or whatever, plus it has cooling fins, and it has crossovers to let you easily add a sub later. Problem is, apparently it's not available any more. When I filter Crutchfield's stock of amps to affordable, modestly powered, 4-channel, class D (efficient digital) amps, they all look like the Alpine now. Shouldn't cost too much for a simple amp install; get a couple of quotes to see what's typical in your area. It's disappointing to hear that the Sony isn't that much better, but also kind of a relief that I didn't miss out. :-)

Please see my thread http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1570-has-anyone-installed-an-amplifier-in-their-c-max/ before you start down this road. The factory stereo is pre-equalized for the speakers that are installed, so upgrading the speakers makes it sound worse, not better. To overcome this, you need to spend loads of dough on a sound processor, like the Audison Bit Ten, that removes the factory EQ and lets you twiddle away weeks of your life trying to come up with a new EQ curve you like (your laptop plugs in to the Bit Ten to allow this, and Audison's white noise CD in your car's CD player and a JL Audio real-time spectrum analyzer app on your phone let you make your decisions at least somewhat based on data). You'll also need an amplifer, since the signal has to come down to line level for the processor, and aftermarket speakers need more power anyway. Finally, to feel satisfied, you'll need a subwoofer--driven by another amplifier--because these days aftermarket speakers often have less bass response, not more, than factory speakers. (The speaker companies are assuming that you're also installing a sub.) After all that, it'll sound just...okay, because there are other limitations in the factory head unit, and you can't get resolution that's not there. Another alternative is a new head unit, but that would be a pain in the arse and you'd lose Sync, Bluetooth etc. Another alternative is to plug your iPod directly into the Bit Ten, bypassing the Sync module entirely and eliminating the need to re-EQ, but then you'd need another Audison module to control volume and switch sources, so you'd lose your factory volume knob and terrestrial radio would sound weird. So here's a better idea. Keep your factory head unit and speakers. Get a good quality digital 25w x 4 amp by Kicker. Install it and call it good. The factory speakers are rated for enough wattage to handle it, and further improvements don't really pencil out on a pleasure per dollar basis. Another option: trade your car for one with the factory Sony system installed. Not kidding. Kind of wish I had done that. You can still add a sub to it, but it has the additional power needed, and better speakers with EQ set for those speakers.

Not the first Chrysler hybrid: see 2009 Dodge Durango / Chrysler Aspen Hybrid. Some of its components appear again here.

I haven't gotten my letter and that group should include my car. Has anyone gotten their letter?

Quite reasonably, you expect data and analysis rather than idle musings. Quite reasonably, I expect a friendly and constructive tone rather than a snipey one. Apparently we both made a wrong turn and wound up on the Internet, and now we’re both disappointed. I saw comedian Patton Oswalt live the other night. As he put it: “Internet comments can be summed up in one word: ‘Actually…’” I agree, I should have provided sources, so I'll do that below. I disagree that magazine or blog articles are "worthless" -- most of us on here, including me, are not scientists, so we benefit from a summary that cuts to the chase. If that means I'm susceptible to politicized misinformation, then I have to live with that...althought FWIW, when the Daily Mail and the Guardian and industry publications are all reporting a story the same way, I feel pretty comfortable with it. To be clear, nobody's alleging that everyone's using defeat devices; they're pointing out that there are startling discrepancies between test-cycle results and real-world results for NOx. Why, and what to do about it, are TBD. Manufacturers gaming European MPG/CO2 tests: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/21/eu-autos-idUSL6N0QL2DN20140821 European Commission research published last year showed that lab techniques, such as taping up car doors and windows and driving on an unrealistically smooth surface, explained around a third of a recorded drop in average EU emissions of planet-warming carbon dioxide (CO2), linked to reduced fuel consumption… [N]itrogen oxide (NOX) emissions, linked to lung disease and hundreds of thousands of early deaths, have been miscalculated to a still-greater extent than CO2 levels. "In the real world we have seen that NOX emissions are higher than indicated by the test, up to a factor 4 or 5 and exceptionally more," one EU official said. BMW X3 emissions: http://www.presseportal.de/pm/53065/3130280 (translated) As the trade magazine AUTO BILD for their latest issue 39/2015 (EVT: 09/25/2015) learned exclusively, VW is not the only automaker whose cars produce showy nitric oxide levels. Even the BMW X3 xDrive 20d has the European emission standards (Euro 6 limit) is exceeded during road tests of the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT) by more than 11 times. Thus, the car cuts even worse than the situation complained of by the US Environmental Protection Agency VW Passat. "All measured data suggest that this is not a VW-specific issue," says Peter Mock the ICCT. In tests of his institute the VW vehicles had the Euro 6 limit for the toxic nitrogen oxides (NOx) by an average of more than exceeded 22 times - determined the US Environmental Protection Agency. Ford Focus diesel emissions: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34425306 In the tests conducted for the BBC, the VW emitted 0.664g of NOx per km, which is a touch under four times the regulated limit of 0.18g under the Euro 5 rules applicable to the VW... The Ford emitted 0.422g of NOx per km, which is more than five times the regulated limit of 0.08g under the Euro 6 rules applicable to the Ford. Other automakers’ emissions: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row?CMP=twt_gu The Guardian in the UK has been reporting on real-world test results from a company called Emissions Analytics. After the latest round of checks, vehicles from Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi were found to generate far more NOx than they should. The newspaper also published similar results for Renault, Nissan, Hyundai, Fiat, Volvo, Jeep, Citroën, VW, and Audi. On average, the figures are about four times over the limit of producing the pollutant.

...

Don't judge a book by its cover or a blog by its name. The Truth About Cars is an industry blog, and much to my chagrin when they're popping my favorite bubbles, "Skepticism About Car Stories" might be a more accurate name. Among other things, they ran this excellent explanation of why the TFLCar "test mode" dyno video discussed elsewhere in this thread is a crock: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/10/tflcars-jetta-dyno-test-doesnt-show-us-test-mode/ I don't care for the Daily Mail either, but that's irrelevant; what's relevant is the researcher's findings, which come from measuring over 300 cars. "According to Tate, Mazda’s diesel engines, on average, emitted more than six times the European limit for nitrogen oxide emissions in new cars. Ford’s cars may have polluted more, but Tate said the automaker’s sample size was too small to tell." I don't see any bold claim here. I do see something that fits with the notorious and well-documented pattern of manufacturers cheating on the European MPG tests--it's hardly a stretch to imagine they'd game emissions tests too. TTAC is not endorsing dude's claim, just reporting it. But it's hardly the only hint that there's a problem here beyond VW. Recent testing has found illegal emissions levels from GM's 1.6 liter turbodiesel, BMW's X3 turbodiesel, and now Ford and Mazda diesels. More extensive testing will be needed to see if that's anomalous or indicative of a larger issue.

Comparably equipped, the cost is similar. Pluses for the Escape: more cargo room, more ground clearance, available AWD, "sporty." Minuses for the Escape: costs a lot more to fuel, rides considerably rougher, has less headroom, harder ingress/egress. I have a C-Max and my partner's family have both the 1.6 FWD and 2.0 AWD Escapes, so I've logged a lot of time in all three. Between the Escapes, the 1.6 FWD zips along nicely and gets pretty good MPG, while the 2.0 AWD isn't much faster but uses a lot more gas. Unless you have to motor over tall snowdrifts, the C-Max makes more sense and is easier to live with.

It seems like a mistake to pour those resources into a dedicated hybrid platform, when the future is already moving on to BEVs. I can only guess they're building a platform that can work for a hybrid, a plug-in hybrid, an extended-range electric vehicle, or a full battery electric vehicle. We've seen a lot of lame engineering efforts in electrification: Honda's weak Integrated Motor Assist, GM's cyncial eAssist, Hyundai's underbaked first-gen Sonata Hybrid, Toyota's halfhearted plug-in Prius, and even Ford's Energi (adding a cord doesn't turn a hybrid into an extended-range electric vehicle). So it's nice to see that carmakers are getting serious about the space at last: Hyundai/Kia's second-generation hybrid sedans and the upcoming Chevy Malibu Hybrid promise worthy competition for the desirable Fusion and Camry Hybrids, while Honda's Accord Hybrid sets a whole new bar for hybrid efficiency. The 2016 Volt outdoes the original in every way yet costs less, and loses the weird factor. And the upcoming Chevy Bolt and Tesla Model III, and to a lesser extent the upcoming refresh to the Nissan Leaf, promise a much more useful amount of battery range in all-electric motoring. A 200-mile BEV with DC fast charge capability can credibly be a family's only car in many markets.

Welcome! It's not a V8 Genesis, but it's far more solid and rewarding to drive than you'd expect of a car with a low entry price and high MPG. I think you'll be pleased with your decision.