salman

MPG is not a problem when your car does not start (infinite MPG? or zero MPG?). I don't think anyone in a buy back case has been complaining about MPG. Almost all the buy back cases have been about repeated dead 12 volt system episodes, typically at least 4 episodes and generally 4 or more repair attempts and often 30 or more says in the shop. If the problem is less than that (in # and severity), then it does not qualify under the terms of most State lemon laws. In most cases that have been reported on this forum Ford has agreed pretty readily to a buy back or exchange, which means they recognize the problem is real, that it seriously impairs use of the care, and that they would lose if they insisted the matter go to court. My own case was at long last completed today! A few months ago I changed my mind and decided to take my chances with another CMAX and then had to wait for a 2014 SE to arrive. The contractor to whom Ford outsources the final stage of the buy-back/exchange process also caused some delay . The lower level people there are not on the ball. My decision to try another CMAX was based partly on my high regard for the service manager and mechanics at the good service department I found at Airport Marina Ford in LA, and partly because I liked driving the CMax more than similar cars. Now I have a new car with a new warranty and my fingers crossed.

Louise No, I do not think anyone here has had a non-Ford mechanic or engineer work on their car, or reported any infrmation about non-Ford engineers analyzing the C-Max in general. Warranty issues would kick into play and, at this early date, everyone is still dependent on information from Ford. The idea of one of us with battery trouble donating our car to science to have its anatomy studied by an independent engineer is an attractive notion, as long as it is someone else donating their car. . . So that leaves us dependent on Ford. But there are a bunch of tips you can pick up reading these forum pages: 1) read about all the releveant Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) Ford has issued related to the 12 volt problems and make sure your service department has checked each one of them. There are relevant TSBs on the electrical grounding of the Body Control Module, water tightness of electrical connectors on the main wiring harness, and several TSBs about software related to battery charging and the shut down of electrical items. 2) evaluate whether your service department is good. If they've already checked all the TSBs they are probably good. If they check a TSB that you bring to them and report back to you with full information about what they did, then they are good. But if they have not looked up TSBs or refuse to check things in TSBs or tell you the problem is the way you drive the car, etc, then find another Ford service department. Remember that even the best service departments and mechanics are also dependent on Ford for authorizations to do warranty work and help in diagnosing problems (esp problems that tie into the complex electrical and computer systems of the C-Max). 3) Look up your state's lemon law and keep good records.

A couple of clues have been put under our noses: 1) there seem to be at least some cases of dead batteries occurring soon after doing the 13B12 firmware update. Some of these cases might be the first dead battery problem encountered by the owner, others are the first episode after a long hiatus from problems. This might suggest that there is something in the firmware update or the updating process that triggers a dead battery event. 2) this quote repeated from Tdfny is also a clue (what was the original source?) "The Battery Monitoring Sensor continuously monitors the condition and the state of charge of the 12V battery and provides the BCM with this information." The BCM is the Body Control Module that A) regulates many electronic processes and B) has TSB out on it that talks about a bad ground connection causing random electrical events, such as things turning on or off.

BullDurham If you have not already read through the 55 pages of this thread, it might be a good idea to do so. After the first few minutes you will be able to move through the pages more quickly by recognizing posts with detailed information about attempts to diagnose 12 volt problems. You can also find a lot of information by looking at the threads on TSBs for electrical and battery issues. In short, ford has TSBs out for 12 volt charging firmware, for faulty connectors on the main wiring harness, for the computer behind the infotainment display that maybe has had problems not shutting down, problems with data & phone ports that do not shut down, for bad ground connection on the Body Control Module, and maybe one or two more i am not remembering. While there may have been tweaks needed to the re-charging routine, the best deductions seem to point to a parasitic draw (a short, a routine that does not shut down, ie something that continues to draw power when it should be off). There might be more than one such problem. It can help a lot if you bring the full list of TSBs to the dealer, and also ask the dealer to check for any and all TSBs related to dead 12 volt batteries and also any related to electrical malfunctions. If the service department is good they will understand why they need to check for this stuff. If they are bad, try another dealer service department

Please post basic information here about your experience of 12 Volt battery failure after having the Customer Satisfaction 13B12 software update

Bob Would you please post your experience on a separate thread so we can track the number dead batteries after the 13B12 update has been applied? I will start the thread, titled 12 Volt Battery Failures After Customer Satisfaction 13B12 Update I hope people will only post basic info about battery failures after getting the 13B12 update and leave all discussion for other threads. That will make it easier to see the data.

Jon The Customer Satisfaction "recall" explicitly called for dealers to pay for rental cars (and ford would reimburse them). You would be within your rights to go to your dealer and to Ford Customer Service via Ashley or Ford's 800 phone number and ask them for compensation, at least for this particular round of service. If a 4th dead battery episode crosses your state's line for Lemon Law qualification, then you have a remedy. Ford seems to have a good track record in responding positively to lemon law complaints that are made on solid grounds with full documentation. The forum has sections on Lemon Law cases and also on TSBs & Recalls. Lots of information there. Some dealer service departments are better than others. Some take on the challenge of trying to solve problems, others tend to do the minimum necessary, and some are worse than that. You can switch to a different service department if you are dissatisfied. At the same time, it is not yet clear that Ford has figured out how to fix the 12 volt problems. The track record is not yet conclusive or long enough to be conclusive. Several repairs seem to have made a difference in specific cases but no one can say yet that Ford has definitively tracked down and resolved all sources of the problems. Time and experience will be the proof. Even the best dealerships and mechanics have been struggling with the 12 volt problems (the worst ones tell you it is the owner's fault, the bad ones don't struggle, the mediocre ones don't offer rental car replacements).

If you have not done so already, the first steps should be 1) review the Wisconsin lemon law, 2) review the request you submitted to Ford to make sure it met all the criteria of the lemon law, 3) ask Ford why they rejected your request. Then, if the request you made was incomplete, submit a new request. Or, if your first request was made correctly and Ford refuses to reconsider, then you should contact attorney.

There is a lot of information in the Forum section on Maintenance, TSBs, Recalls on the battery thread. In addition to the reprogramming called for in the recent "recall", there have also been problems with bad electrical connectors and bad ground wiring of the body control module, and these have possibly caused some dead 12 volt batteries. If you read through the thread you will find a list Ford TSB's telling dealers to look for these problems when confronted with symptoms like a dead 12 volt battery. You probably need to tell the dealer to check these things. You might be best served by taking your car to a different and hopefully better dealer service department. Some are better than others.

Ashley Thank you (and Ford) for making yourself accessible to the owners who have been snagged by the 12 Volt system bug and other problems. My personal experience has been that Ford has become much more responsive on the 12 Volt problems since the spring of 2013. I really appreciate that. Do you have a way to find out whether any changes have been made in the 2014 C-Max SE and SEL to try to prevent the 12 Volt problems that have hit the 2013 models? Have the issues covered by TSBs for the 2013 models been addressed for the new 2014 models? The TSB issues for the 2013 include at least the following items: proper shutdown of the information/entertainment screen computer system, proper grounding of the Body Control Module, the charging routine for the 12 volt battery, and electrical connectors on the main wiring harness that were susceptible to water intrusion. Has anything else been changed on the 2014 to address the 12 Volt battery problems? Thank you

buy back prices are determined in accordance with State law, so you need to check the law for your own State. Easy to do by googling "Lemon Law" and the name of your state. My case is still pending. No fault of Ford's. Here is the formula for California from the State Attorney General's web site: The Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act (beginning with Civil Code section 1790) provides protection for consumers who lease or buy new motor vehicles. The law requires that if the manufacturer or its representative in this state, such as an authorized dealer, is unable to service or repair a new motor vehicle to meet the terms of an express written warranty after a reasonable number of repair attempts, the manufacturer is required promptly to replace the vehicle or return the purchase price to the lessee or buyer. The purchase price that must be returned includes the price paid for manufacturer-installed items and transportation but does not include the price paid for nonmanufacturer items installed by the dealer. The lessee or buyer is completely free to choose whether to accept a replacement or a refund. Whatever the choice, the manufacturer is also responsible to pay for sales or use tax; license, registration, and other official fees; and incidental damages that the lessee or buyer may have incurred such as finance charges, repair, towing, and rental car costs. The lessee or buyer may be charged for the use of the vehicle regardless of whether the vehicle is replaced or the purchase price is refunded. The amount that may be charged for use is determined by multiplying the actual price of the new vehicle by a fraction having as its denominator 120,000 and as its numerator the number of miles traveled by the vehicle before it was first brought in for correction of the problem. For example, if the car had traveled 6,000 miles before it was first brought in for correction of the problem, the lessee or buyer could be charged 5% (6,000/120,000 = 5%) of the purchase price for usage.

I guess Ford is in fact reading the forum. I think it is safe to say we all hope the bugs can be corrected and worked out of the C-Max. It is a great design and drives wonderfully, but bugs like the 12 volt system problems have been a lot of trouble.

you could google to see if it has been posted on line. or call Ford Customer Service at their Dearbon HQ and ask them why you have not received the letter for 13B12. The letter is 2 pages and does say Ford will pay for a rental car.

You received exactly the same letter that I received. It does refer to the "Multifunction Display computer." See the paragraph on what Ford says it will do. You also have had Ford agree to a replacement/buy back. There is a thread about that. Please post about your experience there, also. It will help others who end up in the same boat. So far it seems Ford has responded reasonably well to Lemon Law requests for buy back or replacement.

That's worrisome on several fronts: 1) it does not address the problem for SEL owners, and 2) if the same curious syndrome stems from different parts or different firmware on the SE vs the SEL, that suggests either A) that Ford has fully tracked down the cause or causes of the syndrome or B) that the electronic wiring and firmware on the C-Maxs has wider weaknesses and more general flaws that produce multiple problems. Hopefully some SEL and Energi owners who have had dead 12 volts will start calling Ford to ask for information, explanations, etc.

I hope someone who takes their car in for the 13B12 Customer Satisfaction service will ask the service manager to tell them whether the "latest calibration" now has been updated since the July TSB 13-7-10. Until we get that information we will not know whether 13B12 is a new step altogether or just Ford telling everyone to get the software update called for in the older TSB. TSBs are done only when the dealer can justify reimbursement from Ford. A Customer Satisfaction Program such as this one is done for all vehicles. It is like a recall in all but name and Federal government involvement. Moreover, 13B12 is also a "Delivery Hold", which means new 2013 C-Maxs cannot be sold off a dealer's lot without 13B12 being performed first. The headliner impact cushioning recall was also a "Delivery Hold," though in that case the Feds were involved and it was a safety recall issue.

The letter refers to the "Multifunction Display", not to a 4.2 screen or to microsoft sync. The letter refers to the "C-Max Hybrid" and makes no mention of trim level. All the CMaxs have a multi-function display screen and all the trim levels have had dead 12 volt cases, even the Energi. We'll see over the next days and weeks whether the letter goes to SEL and Energi owners as well as SE owners, if owners post when they get the letter. My car is an SE (and also in the process of lemon law buy back or replacement, already agreed to by Ford). If the letter and fix is only for the SE, then that leaves a problem for SEl & Energi owners, and for Ford.

some more digging led me to this site, which says the FSA and Customer Satisfaction program is also a "Delivery Hold" on new cars: 4413 - Announcing Field Service Action 13B12 DELIVERY HOLD - Customer Satisfaction Program 13B12 - Certain 2013 C-MAX Hybrid Vehicles with 4" Multifunction Display - Check Battery and Reprogram the Front Control/Display Interface Module (FCDIM) - Refer to FMCDealer.com http://www.vrep.fordtechservice.dealerconnection.com/vdirs/oasis/oareq.asp?broadcast=ON&from=

but they are supposed to shut off automatically after some time period, no?

so everyone will get the letter. That means all owners will soon know that some non-trivial number of CMaxs have been plagued with dead batteries. I'm trying to guess how Ford is thinking about this. The letter is the right thing to do in terms of ethics, but it is bad publicity for the car. I wonder if Ford thinks this current round of re-programming is the main fix to the problem, if indeed it is a new bit of firmware as opposed to the older update.If it is not the fix and bad battery cases continue, then they'll have a real costly mess on their hands since they've alerted all owners that they know it is a real problem. Points for doing the ethically correct thing.

Just got a letter from Ford announcing Customer Satisfaction Program 13B12 to address 12 volt battery problems. This is not exactly a recall, but similar to it. For will test the battery and replace if necessary, and Ford will reprogram the "Multifunction Display computer" to correct the problem of "an electronic module" (does not say which one) that "fails to transition to 'sleep' state." It says the procedure takes half a day and that dealers are authorized to give you a rental at no charge if you need one. It is not clear form the letter whether the re-programming for the display screen is new software or the software called for by the older TSBs. But the fact they are sending out the letter shows that the problem is fairly widespread. Has everyone been getting this letter? Or just people who have brought 12 volt battery problems to the dealer for service?

jchadpete Thanks for posting a lot of helpful information. I do not think anyone else in the forum has written about a problem jumping the car from the front terminals (under the front hood) as opposed to at the battery itself in the rear of the car. One thing you mentioned caught my eye: The engineer's statement that he/she would not authorize a buy back. That is not how the decisions are made at Ford. The decisions are not made by engineers but by a special "reacquired vehicles team" that investigates the case. Also, the relevant state law in Arizona defines the terms for a buy back or replacement by the number of repair attempts (4) or days that the vehicle is out of service because it is in the shop and/or broken (30). You do have the right to keep letting Ford have another chance to fix the problem, but Ford does not have the right to refuse a buy back because they think they are about to discover the needed fix.

there are a couple of postings in the Battery section from owners of recent build C-Maxs with dead 12 volts, so the recent builds have the problem, too. if no one has access to the full FSA text then maybe CMax Philly could ask their dealer for a copy. If you tell your service manager about all the TSBs, etc, related to dead batteries then they will know you are educated on the issue. If they want to keep you as a customer then a good service manager will give you the FSA text. Good to tell them about all the TSBs. They should be checking the electrical connectors for water, the BCM ground for trouble, updating the charging firmware and also the latest FSA about that 4.2 inch screen.

Interesting. Changing it from a TSB to a FSA is probably in response to customer complaints about battery problems and possibly also a response to some dealers being reluctant to do the TSBs for fear they would not be reimbursed. We know from CMAxPhilly and a couple of other recent posts that 12 volt problems continue to happen. I find it curious that they elevated this particular TSB to a FSA, and not others. The TSB for the 4.2 screen is old and it seems it did not solve many of the 12 volt problems. Perhaps it is one of the less expensive TSBs to perform?

CmaxPa That sounds like a very reasonable repair time to me. Some problems are easy to spot. Your problem required a deeper search to identify, and then the part that needed to be replaced (which you did not identify) sounds like a length of the coolant line or a connector that is not generally expected to be replaced on a regular basis. It is not surprising that your dealer would need to order the part from Michigan. Order it one day, it ships the next day, and maybe is there to be installed on the third day, or the fourth day if you are not near a major airport or shipping center. Then a day to install. Rachel A cracked manifold? On a one year old car in the South? How did that happen. To the forum Although I think CmaxPA was wrong in his evaluation of his dealer's service and Ford's response time to ship the part, I do not think it is appropriate to respond to a post like this by making statements such as "Wow! Some people just aren't happy with anything." That's just a personalized insult and mockery. It supplies no information and does not help anyone to better understand their car or how to work with a dealer or Ford to solve problems. It probably discourages some people from posting about their problems, which hurts everyone because we may benefit from knowing that others are having problems similar to our own. It is a line that poster has used repeatedly. If I had a vote, I would vote that it is unacceptable.