raadsel

I believe most models of the Niro will come with Apple CarPlay. I suspect the LX, EX and Touring models will all have it; the FE might not; this would be in line with other 2017 Kia models, where all but the lowest trims of Apple CarPlay/Android Auto built in.

The advantage is that the electric motor doesn't have to spin as quickly because of the gearing, which means you don't need as powerful an electric motor. And FWIW, the electric motor on the Niro is built into the transmission, just that it is "behind" the transmission on the Niro vs. "in front" of the transmission on the C-Max. It is also worth noting the automatic on the Niro is a dry dual clutch transmission, which makes it efficiency closer to what you get from an eCVT. Having said that, obviously the Niro does not have the power the C-Max does. As much as we hate it, the issue is that the Prius is the car to beat in the hybrid segment, so Hyundia/Kia, with the Ioniq/Niro, seem to have had the goal of providing cars that could beat the Prius (and look and feel more like a normal car).

I replied elsewhere but I don't think your points add much. As I mentioned with the Fuelly average; you need to take into account those are non-US versions of the car driven largely since September (when it because available for purchase overseas). The results, so far, are for new cars, not yet broken in, driven in colder weather; so you would have to expect that number to be higher at this time next year. And, as for averages, that still beats the C-Max Hybrid Fuelly average by about 5 mpg -- so over 10% better fuel economy so far. The smaller electric motor is not a good comparison, as the transmission sits between the motor and the wheels -- it does not need to have as large an electric motor.

The first problem is that people won't be comparing the C-Max, as it will no longer be available. It is our basis for comparison because we have enjoyed our C-Max cars. Yes, it does appear to be 0-60 in about 9.8 seconds, so about 1.5 seconds slower than the C-Max and a bit faster than any of the Prii. The power of the electric engine does not directly compare to the C-Max because of the different transmissions. From what I've read on the subject, the C-Max electric motors are directly connected to the wheel, where as the Niro electric motor is connected to the transmission -- so the electric motor does not need to be as large.The Niro also needs a bit less power, as the Niro weighs over 500 lbs. less than the C-Max. What hurts the Niro vs. the C-Max is it's smaller 1.6L engine, though it is also one of the issues that helps the Niro get better fuel economy, and that loss (as seen in the 0-60 times) is not completely offset by the lower weight. As for fuel economy, we'll see what it looks like as people start driving it. The two issues is, since the Niro isn't sold in the US yet, so the comparison isn't with a US version of the car. Additionally, it is over a relatively short time period (the Niro has only been available a few months, so those averages were done solely during fall/winter) and a very small number of cars. Still, an average of 45 is pretty impressive, the Prius V and C-Max only average about 40 mpg. We also know the stock Niro can do 75 mpg going cross country with no modifications, we have no idea what someone, like a user here, might be able to get with minor modifications (such as grill covers). Initial reports I've seen is that the Niro feels quite sporty, even if it doesn't quite match the C-Max for speed. It will be interesting to see what they are like, once they become available in the US.

I got a chance to look at my car, since posting. I first noticed a couple of nights ago and thought maybe I was out of washer fluid, but quickly found that wasn't it when I went to add more fluid. Since it was dark, I didn't really check things out. Today, when I looked, I found that the fluid tubes had almost disconnected from the nozzles on the hood. Having pushed the tubes back onto the nozzles, it now seems to be working fine.

I'm having an issue with my windshield washer. I've been very happy, previously, when I went to use them -- they've provided a good amount of fluid and done a good job of putting the fluid on the windshield. My issue is that it is now just barely getting the fluid above the windshield wipers (when they are resting). The volume of fluid seems about the same, just that it isn't coming out hard enough to get the fluid up high enough. Any thoughts on what I can check or what the issue might be?

The Kia Niro seems to be the car that will be the closest to a "C-Max replacement." It is fairly close to the same size, both inside and out, with slightly less power (only 139 hp) but allegedly still fun to drive and with better fuel economy (51/46 mpg for the most common models). The next closest is likely the Prius V; it will be interesting to see what the next redesign of the V will look like (and what the EPA ratings will be).

I would hope the bigger advantage of battery prices dropping is that it might help hybrids/PHEVs/EVs hold onto their value better. One of the big negatives is the thousands of dollars it might cost if the battery pack fails in a used hybrid. As for the RAV 4 hybrid, my biggest issue is that it isn't really that fuel efficient, at only 34 city/31 highway -- particularly since it isn't that much larger or have any more power than the C-Max.

From what I've seen, it does appear there will be no true replacement for the C-Max. It appears there will be one body style of the Model E, just different "powertrains" -- hybrid, PHEV, and EV versions. It would appear the body style for the Model E will be similar to the Prius, though possibly a sedan rather than a hatchback (but perhaps both versions), though with the lower roof to lower drag. I think the question is if Ford will "electrify" one of their current SUV/CUVs, particularly a smaller CUV. This is why I'm so interested in the Kia Niro; it seems like it may end up as the closest car left to the C-Max, once C-Max production ends and it appears the Niro will have outstanding fuel economy for a "taller" car. Of course, my hope is that Ford either decides to continuing making something similar, hopefully based on something similar to the Euro C-Max or Grand C-Max. However, the fact that Ford updated the Euro C-Max a few years ago and we still don't see that reflected in the US C-Max (or even rumors of it) makes it appear doubtful, that the Hybrid C-Max will just be discontinued.

The Niro FE (50 mpg), EX and LX (49 mpg) have 205/60R16 tires, the Touring (43 mpg) will have 225/45R18 tires. The larger tires, roof rails, and about 150 additional pounds of electronics (heated/cooled seats, adaptive cruise control, autonomous braking, Harmon Kardon stereo, etc.) seem to be what lowers the Touring's fuel economy. I'm not sure Kia has released the details on the powertrain but I'd expect the EV max speed to be similar to the 72 mph you find in the Sonata/Optima Hybrids. Much of the weight reduction is that some parts, such as the hood and hatch, are made of aluminum. It is close in size to the C-Max. The Niro's wheelbase is longer but overall is two inches shorter; it is 1 inch narrower than the C-Max, and is 3.5 inches shorter. Interestingly, headroom is only 1" less in front on the Niro, and both the C-Max and the Niro have the same rear headroom. The Niro has a bit more than an inch more legroom in front, and just under an inch (.9") in back. The Niro has a bit less cargo space, about 5 cu ft. less -- most is likely because of the lower height but some is because of the increased passenger space -- though it also has room under the cargo deck for a full sized spare tire. With the rear seats folded down, the Niro actually has about 2 cu. ft. more cargo space than the C-Max. Unsurprisingly, the Niro's turning radius seems to be a few inches less than the C-Max. I've not seen an official 0-60 time but it appears that it will be about 10 seconds. Most of my information is coming from Kia sources, such as this: http://www.kiamedia.com/us/en/models/niro/2017/specifications While it is not a C-Max, it looks like it might be one of our better options for a C-Max replacement in the next year or two; unless Ford builds a Model E CUV.

I know the current Sonata Hybrid, and it appears the 2017 Optima Hybrid, also have a drag coefficient of 0.24. I think they have the same type of improvements on the Niro, just that it has the high roof. Like the Niro, the Ioniq is already on sale in South Korea, though they have an all electric model as well. I believe the Ioniq EV is due out anytime now in the US, the Ioniq Hybrid maybe a month or two later, and the Ioniq PHEV next summer. It sounds as if Kia has decided to make a PHEV and EV version of the Niro, the PHEV likely will be a 2018 model available in late 2017. I haven't heard about when an EV model may be available -- though with the Ioniq having both an EV and PHEV, it should make it faster and easier to produce these NIro versions.

1. I'll be interested to see how the Niro does at various highway speeds. As you allude to, I would suspect that the fuel economy may drop quite a bit between 55, 65, and 75 (much like the C-Max). I'll be interested to hear how it does at various speeds. At the same time, it is worth noting that there are some features on the Niro to help improve mileage that might not be fully reflected in the drag coefficient; such as the holes in the front bumper to create an "air curtain" around the sides of the car and the roof overhanging the back window by a couple of inches. It also weighs about 500 pounds less than the C-Max (I believe the tested model is 3,150 lbs). It will be interesting to see what Consumer Reports says about the fuel economy. From what I've seen, Kia/Hyundai has tried to be conservative with their EPA numbers since being fined a couple of years ago. 2. It also helps that this is Kia/Hyundai's third hybrid powertrain. They originally had a 2.4L ICE in the original Optima/Sonata hybrids; they changed to a 2.0L ICE and slightly larger electric motor in the newer models. Now they have the 1.6L ICE and use the dual clutch transmission (a version of which they've used on other Hyundai and Kia's the last few years). Of course, it also helps that Kia has the 100,000 mile/10 year hybrid and powertrain warranties. 3. In many ways this was a publicity stunt, merely to show what the Niro could do. My understanding is that Kia originally wanted to create a record for the best mpg by a CUV going cross country but it was Guinness who wanted it merely to be the best mpg by a car. Obviously, a hybrid sedan could likely beat the record, such as the Prius. It seems like Hyundai/Kia would be smart to have Wayne now do the same trip in a Hyundai Ioniq -- a sedan based on the same powertrain and frame as the Niro. The EPA ratings on the Ioniq were recently announced as 55 city/54 highway/52 combined for the "normal" trim, and 57 city/ 59 highway/ 58 combined for the "Blue" trim level -- both of which beat the ratings of the current Toyota Prius (54 city/50 highway/52 combined for the normal trim, 58 city/53 highway/56 combined for the Eco). If the EPA numbers are accurate, it seems that the normal Ioniq trim could set a record that the Prius Eco would not be able to beat (because of the better highway mileage on the Ioniq).

My understanding is that all the Korean hybrids (both Kia and Hyundai) are built in S. Korea, largely because of all hybrid powertrains being built in South Korea. I also believe that the US Kia plant doesn't currently have the manufacturing capability to add manufacturing for an additional model, beyond the Optima and Sorento models currently produced there. The Niro used to make the Guinness World Record was a car for the US market, probably the first (or one of the first batch) of cars built to US specs built and shipped to the US. The record was set just a week or so prior to the Niro media "first drive" event. The cars that have been in dealers lots have been there for over two months, I believe they were shipped prior to the US spec cars being manufactured.

No US dealers actually have a Niro for sale yet, it has not yet been released by Kia. My guess is that they will start showing up sometime in January. They likely went to a dealer that had a Niro that was built for the S. Korea market on display but that could not be test driven.

As I mentioned above, you can read about the trip on CleanMPG.com -- though last I saw he is still working on putting up the full account. Looking now, he has only posted about the pre-trip testing he did, and then leaving LA at the start of the trip. As to your points: He timing was based solely on when Kia made the Niro available, so he was not able to wait for ideal weather -- which is why he did it in December.He states that his route was largely chosen to avoid steep climbs and trying to stay South longer for the less cold temperatures.He had no service truck. All fill ups were done at Shell stations. I believe he just used regular unleaded, though I don't think he ever states. From the pictures, it does not appear E0 is sold at the LA station (and likely not the others). Per the Guiness rules, the gas tank was sealed off, with the seal and paperwork were signed by two gas station attendants, with the signatures compared at the next station before breaking the seal. So no additives, just Shell gasoline. He does mention, in one of his test trips to see if the trip was feasible, he bought some E0 at a station in Arizona.Again, no service truck. Additionally, the lack of service truck means additional weight in the car. Besides the two adult male drivers, some of the items they left with include "two full sized spares, a 24 pack of Pepsi, 24 bottles of water, 16 bottles of Gatorade, 16 bottles of sparkling water." He lists a few other items (mostly snacks) in his account. He estimates an added 700 extra pounds of weight to the car between the two drivers and the gear.My recollection from other long distance fuel economy drives Wayne has done, he tends to drive between 50-60 where possible, speeding up or slowing down based on safety factors. Hopefully we'll get a better idea of his speeds traveled as he posts more. For example, much of the early part of his trip was done on I-10, and California's minimum speed limit is 10 mph below the posted speed limit, so he would have done at least 55 mph while on I-10 through the desert.The interesting result, so far, is that the first 129 miles (to Incipio, CA) he averaged 92 mpg, which includes a climb over a 2,750 ft high pass. Regardless, the "lawsuits" won't be if people can't get 70 mpg, since the EPA combined rating is "only" 49 for the model he drove.It will be interesting to see what real world results these cars get in the next few months, once they become available at Kia dealerships. From what I've been reading and seen, this does seem to be a nice and well-designed car. It definitely appears to help that it was designed as a hybrid, rather than converted to a hybrid, like the C-Max.

Kia announced this week that they set a Guinness World Record for the lowest fuel consumption, driving coast-to-coast, averaging 76.6 mpg over 3,715.4 miles, using 48.5 gallons of gas (just over 4 tanks). The EPA ratings for the model used to set the record is 46 city/51 highway/49 combined. The Niro was driven by Wayne Gerdes and he is in the process of posting his experience driving the Niro cross country here. It is also worth noting he didn't drive the most fuel efficient Niro, which is the Niro FE, and is EPA rated at 52 city/49 highway/50 combined, and also that he made the drive in November (with the cold weather likely stealing an mpg or two of efficiency).

I found this interesting, a UK company, Augmented Optics, has filed for patents of a new supercapacitor breakthrough that may allow batteries to charge in minutes. They are hoping to build a prototype car next year that will be able to travel 150 miles and charge in seconds. Apparently there capacitors are using soft contract lens technology to create a polymer that can hold a large amount of electricity and recharge quickly. They also believe it will cost less to produce than lithium ion batteries. It will be interesting to see if this pans out, or at least leads to a further breakthrough. It will be interesting to hear more once this technology is tested in a prototype car.

Most here don't have the "Eco Mode", I believe that was first added to the 2016 C-Max.

I don't believe Ford made any real changes between the 2016 and 2017 C-Max to improve fuel economy. I believe the only difference for the C-Max is that the EPA changed their test procedure. While most cars are getting lower fuel economy numbers, a few (such as the C-Max) are testing better. I believe, in the C-Max's case, it may test slightly better using the new procedure combined with Ford being overly cautious with the EPA numbers after downgrading the C-Max's fuel economy twice (from the initial 47/47/47) when it came out in 2013.

I can't agree -- just what do you think "a combination of engine motoring and high-voltage battery charging" really is? Granted, it isn't a low gear because the C-Max doesn't have gears, but it is still adjusting the CVT and using either the electric motor or the ICE to "brake" the car (which maintains the speed) -- just as the Sonata does if you downshift. The hybrid systems will work similarly on both cars; they will attempt to use the electric motor to slow the car, until the HVB is full, at which point they will use the ICE as an engine brake. I'll agree that the C-Max has a little extra programming, in that it attempts to maintain your current speed while traveling down a hill -- because of the variable transmission it can do a good job of adjusting the transmission to attempt to maintain your exact speed. In an automatic transmission, you don't get the same amount of speed control because you are limited to (in the Sonata) the six forward gears (particularly since the Sonata Hybrid lacks a torque converter). The major difference is that the C-Max has a single button that will attempt to keep your speed automatically, while in the Sonata you must manually downshift to a gear that keeps you at your desired speed. Perhaps I'm just too old (used to changing gears in a car), I just don't see it as that much of an extra feature that the Sonata is lacking.

To be fair, on the "hill descent mode," it isn't needed on the Sonata. The "hill descent mode" is essentially a low gear; since the Sonata has a traditional automatic transmission, you select manual shift mode and downshift. There are advantages and disadvantages to having the automatic transmission vs. the eCVT of the C-Max. This and the better highway fuel economy are the advantages, but a disadvantage is that it is less efficient in city driving. From what I know of the trunk, it should open. From what I've read, it has sounded like the tensioner on the trunk release isn't set strongly enough on some Sonatas. You might talk to the dealer and see if they can adjust it for you, so it opens. Otherwise, from what I've seen, it should be relatively simple to adjust the tension so that it will fully open. One additional benefit to the Sonata that you didn't mention, at least if you are going to keep the car for a while, is the lifetime warranty on the HVB -- though that is only needed if you keep the car for over 100,000 miles (and I believe they are expected to last for 300,000 miles).

It is really disappointing to me that they never updated the styling, at the same time they updated the European C-Max.

Actually, the last I think most of us have seen is in October, 2014. Kellytoons posted about it here. The Amazing Race had an episode (season 25, episode 4) where the C-Max Energi was featured. They had a challenge where they had to drive from Copenhagen to Sweden using less than 0.1 gallons of gas, and then the winners of the episode each won their own C-Max Energi. You can see the episodes if you have Amazon Prime (also buy the episode) or Hulu.

I went into a Kia dealer to see the Niro today. The car is not on sale in the US yet, but a number of US dealers have a Niro on display (list of US dealers that have a Niro on Display). It is actually a car that appears to be built for the Korean market (what I believe is Korean "warnings" on the outside mirrors), so you couldn't drive it. In fact, the car's 12V battery was dead (and it did have an actual 12V battery, which answers a question I had previously). In size, it reminds me a lot of the C-Max, though I like the look of it better. I think the Kia has a nice looking front end. The Kia seems to sit maybe an inch or two higher than the C-Max; still lower than most SUVs and a height that is very comfortable to get into. The Niro is two inches longer (and about two inch longer wheelbase), and inch narrower, and 3.5 inches shorter. Looking at the interior specs, they all appear to be fairly close; the C-Max has an inch more front headroom (despite being three inches taller) with rear headroom about the same; the Niro has more legroom, over an inch in the front and about an inch in the back; Shoulder room is similar between the two, both front and back, though the C-Max has an extra inch of hip room in the front and over 2 inches in the back. The C-Max has better cargo volume -- at least over the load floor (about 19 to 24.5 sq in), but the Niro has room to put a full size spare tire under the rear load floor. The battery in the Niro is completely under the rear seat. The Niro at the dealership was fully loaded -- adaptive cruise control, automatic emergency braking, lane departure warning, blind spot detection/cross traffic alert, heated and cooled seats, heated steering wheel, leather seats, and even a wireless charger for you phone in the center console. The one thing I noticed that was missing, that would be nice to have, is memory buttons for the driver's seat and mirror -- while it is a power seat and power mirrors, like the C-Max, there appears to be no memory settings. The US pricing hasn't been announced yet, or what the EPA fuel economy numbers are; the US models should be available early next year, hopefully January. The rumors at the dealership are that the base Niro will be just above 20K (maybe 22 or 23 thousand), and fully loaded it will be around 30K -- so a bit less than the C-Max, if those numbers turn out to be true. Kia is still hoping for 50 mpg overall on the Niro. Which reminds me, the display had Michelin Primacy tires, which looked nice, but I expect they will have an LRR tire on the US models -- hopefully the Michelin Energy Savers, but I honestly expect they will have Kumho and or Hankooks. I talked to a salesman, for a few minutes, who had driven it (before they realized it may not be street legal in the US) and said that it was quick, having good power of the line or even when accelerating to pass. He also said it drove smoothly and was very quiet, that it was difficult to notice when the engine turned on. With the C-Max going away in the next couple of years, this looks like it will make a decent replacement; though it will be interesting to actually drive one of the models built for the US.