raadsel

Since I was just test driving it, I haven't tried. I'm fairly split on what I want to do; though my guess is that I will wait. All things being equal, it seems I would prefer a C-Max (part of why I am on this forum rather than the Fusion Hybrid forum). I would really like the storage space that the C-Max has. I like the Fusion, though, particularly things like the seat memory and BLIS w/ cross traffic alert. I suspect I would be happy with either. I'd miss the storage space but don't have to have it. So, it is a matter of finding the right car for the right deal; and, at least to this point, I've not found it. The C-Max does seem to have better deals at the moment so it likely has the advantage; though it may depend on how desperate the dealer with the Fusion gets.

They seem to be on, by default, in the Fusion, as well, which was why I asked. I've driven a few C-Max and Fusions (maybe three each) and that is the only one where those arrows have been off. And, naturally, the salesman was clueless. ;)

Forgive me if I'm wrong; but the displays seem to be the same, other than the differing options between to the two cars. On top of that, I'm already on this forum. Thank you for providing an answer.

I'm not sure if people missed the question of just don't know, but the car I drove was missing the little arrows above and below the battery that tell you if the battery is charging or discharging. Is there some way that can be turned off in the settings, or does this appear to be some type of malfunction? Would it effect your decision on buying that particular car?

I think the comparison may be more the difference between an orange and a grapefruit. Both are citrus fruits that have lots of Vitamin C (or, for our purposes, made by Ford with the same powertrain) but are quite different. And, in my case, I like both but for different reasons. And that is more or less what I'm looking for here, just wondering why people prefer the C-Max over the Fusion; just looking for things I may not have considered that might help me decide which I'd be happier with long term.

I'm pretty torn on this. One thing that surprised me about the Fusion is how much less sporty it seems than the C-Max, considering they have the same powertrain and similar weight. Ford seems to have really "muted" the response of the accelerator pedal; while the power appears to be there if you push hard enough, it really seems like it is tuned for fuel economy. The ride may also be a bit better and quieter than the C-Max. One other thing, much more space in the engine compartment on the Fusion. The options in the Fusion I drove, that aren't in the C-Max, include the memory seats/mirror, 4-way power passenger seat, BLIS, Lane keep assist, push button electronic emergency brake, keyless entry keypad, easy entry (automatically moves drivers seat back when car is turned off), and auto high beams. You also have the space in the trunk for the spare tire, though you would have to buy it separately. The only things I can think of that are missing on this Fusion, that are on the C-Max SEL I last looked at, beyond the tall cargo area, are the motorized lift-gate, Navigation, and Sony Sound system. There are things I prefer in both vehicles -- for example, I like the MFT set up better in the Fusion but prefer the climate controls in the C-Max. So, I'm trying to figure exactly what I want to do. Also, the price I have on the vehicle is firm, including all dealer fees. One last thing that is bothering me, largely because I can't figure out if it is really a problem or not (and it does feel like nitpicking) -- this car does not show the little arrow (caret) above or below the battery icon on the dash display, that shows if the battery is charging or discharging. The normal display on the Fusion Hybrid appears to be the same as the C-Max, and that little arrow does show up on other Fusion Hybrids I've seen. Anyone have an idea why the arrow doesn't show up and if it somehow could mean there is a problem somewhere? It does not appear to effect the way the car drives -- did roughly a 10 mile test drive and got 42 mpg for the drive, including idling for a couple of minutes setting things up.

Anything below about 60F is considered cold in the coastal part of Texas. ;)

It sure seems like almost all of the used C-Maxes I've seen are either fleet or I suspect were "lemons" or did not sale so were used as loaners. I put lemons in quotes because they aren't listed as a lemon, but I've seen a few 2013 SEs with under 10,000 miles, it makes me think they weren't driven much and traded in because of battery issues. Most I've seen are fleet/rental vehicles.

To be clear, I have looked at the Carfax and looked at the car, it appears to have no accident damage, is in good condition, and the Carfax indicates no issues besides being a rental. I've looked at the Leif Johnson site and have some interest in their 2014 C-Max (which seems to be a good price) but the deal isn't quite where I'd like it. The Fusion dealer is relatively close and seem willing to negotiate more -- and 20,000, from what I can see, is a great deal.

BLIS and Lane Assist, power passenger seat, a moonroof that opens (but not panoramic), and other minor things.

I have not been in a hurry to buy a car, so I'm still waiting for the right car/deal. Currently, I have what seems to be a really good offer on a Fusion Hybrid, basically the offer is $20,000 + tax and title for a nicely equipped 2014 Fusion SE (luxury and driver assist packages) with 35,000ish miles. It is a rental, but is being sold as a CPO, so will have the 100,000 mile warranty. I like the "extras" on this Fusion that the C-Max does not have, though am sure I will miss the storage room the C-Max has. For those here, would you "settle" for a Fusion at that price or would you want the C-Max (realizing members here are biased toward the C-Max)?

The one other possible answer might be that it has to do with MyKey, that it could be a speed limit for that key.

What I was talking about in my previous post, the first time the C-Max fuel economy was dropped (from 47 overall to 43), Ford stated they had used the EPA numbers they created for the Fusion for the C-Max, that they didn't even test the C-Max -- it was a loophole the EPA allowed, due to the two vehicles having identical powertrains. So the 43 was the first number they had when they performed the EPA testing, and then they lowered it a second time when they audited their testing protocols, which you mention in your post; which lowered the C-Max to 40 overall, and the Fusion to 42. This article, from Consumer Reports, talks about Ford lowering fuel economy ratings on several models, but also mentions the first lowering of fuel economy ratings on the C-Max.

I notice that is from an Energi while driving in EV mode rather than hybrid mode, so wonder if it is even on the C-Max Hybrid.

Yes, that is one of the things I have seen in my research of the C-Max. One thing I have noticed, looking at a used 2013 and 2014 side by side, both SELs, is that the 2014 has some plastic pieces running down each side of the back window, they stick out about an inch -- I'm guessing to help air flow around the back of the car better.

From what I've found, realizing I have not bought a C-Max but am still considering it. The positives, it is a fun car to drive that has a good owner loyalty score -- most C-Max owners seem to love their C-Max. It has good acceleration and power, particularly for a hybrid. It drives well, is quiet and well behaved on the road, especially for its size. It also gets good gas mileage, and seems capable of beating its current EPA numbers -- though this depends on how you drive it and the temperature (hybrids lose maybe 1 mpg in fuel economy for every 10 degree temperature drop, at least below 70 or so). The height of the C-Max allows for easy entry/exit, particularly for tall drivers and putting car seats in the back. It also gives the C-Max good cargo space, particularly with the back seats folded down. The C-Max can be a bargain. Sales were hurt after Ford was forced to lower the EPA figures, admitting they'd used the Fusion numbers for the C-Max (which isn't as aerodynamic). They were hurt further when Ford lowered the EPA numbers a second time. Worse, since that time, Ford has not done a lot of marketing for the C-Max -- most car buyers don't seem to be aware it even exists. Additionally, with gas prices so low, hybrids in general are not being looked at. All of this has lead to it being a buyers market for the C-Max. The negatives from what I can find, and from my experience from a weekend with a C-Max. First, the battery issue. Though this is largely on the SE without MyFordTouch displays, all models have had complaints of the battery dying in only a few hours without a known cause. This also seems to lead to many people needing to replace batteries sooner than should be required, though most seem like they are being replaced under warranty. Having said that, I'm not sure if this should be a concern if buying a 2014 or 2015 SEL or even SE with MyFordTouch. If you want to be safe, it might be worth carrying a lithium battery that can jump start your car, typically available for around $100, that are relatively small and easily stored in the car. Since the 12V battery does not start the engine (the EV battery starts the engine), even smaller lithium jump starters should work fine since they only need to provide enough power to start the cars computers. I'm starting to wonder if some C-Max's may have transmission issues, particularly where the transmission runs hotter than it should. There have only been a few reports here, indicating that it may effect only a small number of cars. OTOH, since most people are still under 50,000 miles on their C-Max's (since the model is less than 3 years old), it could be that it could be a wider issue as the cars age. This is especially true since transmission temperature is not something normally seen, merely alerts if they become dangerously hot. Again, though, it appears that those with problems are having them fixed under warranty. Routine maintenance items are somewhat more difficult than on many other cars because of how cramped the engine compartment is;. One example would be the thread on changing the cabin air filter. This may or may not be an issue for you, depending on how much of your own maintenance you like to do. Last, the front seats seem to have issues with thigh support on longer drives (2 hours or more), but seem to be good otherwise. Back seats definitely seem to be uncomfortable for adults but the back seat does have good room due to the high roofline.

From what I can find, it is under the standard power train warranty. From the warranty brochure: "(1) Your vehicle’s Powertrain components are covered for five years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. The extended coverage applies to the Engine: all internal lubricated parts, cylinder block, cylinder heads, electrical fuel pump, powertrain control module, engine mounts, flywheel, injection pump, manifold (exhaust and intake), manifold bolts, oil pan, oil pump, seals and gaskets, engine thermostat, engine thermostat housing, timing chain cover, timing chain (gears or belt), turbocharger/supercharger unit, valve covers, water pump; Transmission: all internal parts, clutch cover, seals and gaskets, torque converter, transfer case (including all internal parts), transmission case, transmission mounts; single-speed gear (for The Focus Electric); Front-Wheel Drive: axle shafts, front bearings seals and gaskets, universal and constant velocity joints; Rear-Wheel Drive: axle shafts, bearings (front and rear), center support bearing, drive axle housing (including all internal parts), drive shaft, retainers, supports, seals and gaskets, universal and constant velocity joints" For the Hybrid warranty: "Your vehicle’s unique hybrid / electric components are covered during the Hybrid / Electric Unique Component Coverage, which lasts for eight years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first. "The following hybrid parts are covered during this extended coverage period: high-voltage battery, hybrid continuously variable transmission, Inverter System Controller (ISC), DC/DC converter, high-voltage battery connector, battery pack fan assembly, thermistor probe, Hybrid Battery Pack Sensor Module (HBPSM), Battery Energy Control Module (BECM), and the PHEV onboard charger."

From my experience, which may not be typical, it seems like most manufacturers are reporting the "usable" amount of fuel in the tank. Basically, they tend not to count the reserve amount, the amount of gasoline in the bottom of the tank when the car reads the tank as empty, or the gas that can be added after the gas nozzle typically clicks off.

Because you don't necessarily want the battery charged. Remember that charging the battery is using extra gasoline. The idea behind a hybrid is to recapture lost energy (regenerative braking) and, to a lesser degree, to run the ICE as efficiently as possible. So, for example, when running at a steady rate of speed on the highway, Ford knows what RPMs the engine runs most efficiently -- for example, bumping the engine speed from 2000 to 2200 RPMs might use little, to no, additional gas (this is merely a demonstration, I don't know the efficient points of the engine); so it it is more efficient to run the engine at 2200 RPM and use that slight increase in power to charge the battery. By contrast, when you are accelerating, you are above the RPMs where the engine is its most efficient. Slowing down, so you can charge the battery, tends to make your acceleration even more inefficient; any charge you are adding to your battery is costing you MPG because of how hard the engine is working. Instead, the idea is that accelerating faster, so the battery does not charge, runs the engine harder for a shorter length of time and, while you are using more energy, short term, to get to speed, you are saving energy because the engine runs efficiently for longer. At least one argument made by hypermilers is: since all battery charge is created by use of gasoline, and you are losing some energy by converting the power to electricity and then charging your battery, you want to charge the battery as little as possible. It can be debated how true that is, but it is worth remembering that you want the best fuel efficiency, which isn't always the same as running in EV mode as much as possible.

Actually, the Accord is not a 7K premium -- as there is no equivalent "base" hybrid. Instead, you are not comparing the options on the different vehicles; to really see the "premium" you need to look at similar priced cars. It can be as much as $5000 but is more like $2,000-3,500 on most vehicles -- this site shows the price between similarly configured cars. Of course, I find this logic somewhat forced. The fact is, most people don't buy the base version of a car, people like the accessories that drive the cost of the car up. In fact people often buy a car that costs more money simply because it has a larger engine -- yet you rarely hear of a "V6" premium, and definitely don't hear about the "break even point" on the larger engine. Beyond that, currently I suspect there is very little premium on hybrids. They fact is, since hybrids aren't selling, a good negotiator can likely get a similar price for the hybrid version of a car as they would the similarly equipped ICE version of that car. EVs are slightly different, largely because of the government tax credits -- while they look much more expensive, most of that difference can be recovered by tax credits and other benefits (such as, in some states, being able to drive in HOV lanes). It will be interesting to see what happens to the price of EVs (such as the Energi line) once the tax credits expire.

While I agree with you, the fact is that there are large numbers of Americans that love big gas guzzling cars and trucks; it is basically a part of the culture. While I love pulling up to a stop light and having no engine noise, there are Americans who absolutely hate it. Tie that in with a culture where "time is money", so every second they believe they are saving from stoplight to stoplight makes them feel like the are driving faster, despite the fact that are saving little to no extra time compared to me, who is driving moderately and saving gas. Because of this, when gas prices are low, people go out and buy the biggest cars/trucks/CUVs with the biggest engines they can afford. They tend to forget that gas prices are going to go back up and, in a year or so, they are going to be sweating to keep inside their budget because they can't afford to fill their big car with gas.

I decided to look for a bit more information and found this. Anyone know why the 2015 C-Max Hybrid SEL has a different front windshield than the 2013-14 C-Max SEL? Particularly since the SE has the same windshield for all three years.

Do you know the actual size of the C-Max tank. I seem to recall the specs claim it is only about 13.5, or 14.5 in the Energi. Obviously it has some "reserve", does anyone know how much?

I've noticed from some reviews, where the car has been driven for a few hours, that there are some complaints about the comfort of the driver's seat -- that after a couple of hours it isn't that comfortable. For those of you who have taken longer trips in your C-Max, have you had a similar issue? Unfortunately, from what I've found, seat comfort between cars is often a matter of personal preference, though there are some seats that aren't adequately cushioned or have poor ergonomics (in fact, the back seats in the C-Max seem to be poorly cushioned). I'm just curious what the experience of driver's seat comfort has been for people here, especially on longer trips.

From what I recall reading, it only helps to unlock the car. The sensors in the car can tell the key is not in the car, despite the booster, and so it refuses to start.