CNCGeek

I did a quick google search to find the debunking and found this. I did not read the whole thing, maybe if I cannot sleep tonight I will try, but I did find a description of when the 5 test and "mpg-based" numbers could be used - they seem to still allow the use of the "mpg-based" calculation, but there is a requirement that they compare them: "Beginning with MY 2011, manufacturers are required to perform an evaluation using 5-cycle tests conducted for vehicle emissions certification that determines whether the models represented by the certification vehicle are eligible to use the less resource-intensive mpg-based method for determining adjusted fuel economy values. The evaluation consists of a comparison of 5-cycle and mpg-based 2-cycle fuel economy values to determine whether the mpg-based method achieves results comparable to the 5-cycle method. If the evaluation finds that the 5- cycle method yields significantly lower fuel economy estimates than the derived 5-cycle method, then the manufacturer is required to use the 5-cycle method for all models represented by the emission certification vehicle. Of course, a manufacturer may use the full 5-cycle method for any vehicles for which it is not required if they believe it produces better fuel economy results." So that makes it seem possible, though unlikely, that they could have used the 2-cycle test values to derive the other results.

Great article, it should be read by anyone considering a hybrid. It does tick me off a bit though, and right now I feel like Ford can kiss my future business goodbye IF they used loopholes to "achieve" the EPA ratings on the C-max. I used to have the quaint idea that the EPA test (though seriously flawed) is a standard, meaning the testing is done the same way to all vehicles. Though it may be all legal to the letter, there is no doubt there is a marketing advantage to be gained if you can pick a higher MPG rating over one that is lower (but actually tested as opposed to being derived). The term hypbrid seems fitting in such cases.

Thats a cool idea. I already have a thule rack but the seasucker has the edge on ease of use. I'd suggest using some of the 3m "clear bra" material under the pad locations to keep it from marking the roof, I used some under the pads on my thule rack and I suspect they have already saved a few scuffs.

Sorry I searched before I posted and again just now, only found a thread where you mentioned the same thing, but could not locate the post you are referring to. I've heard similar things about the pano roof and load capacity in general, but thought it was just a big decrease in the load rating, not a complete no-go - but it makes sense they would just say no to it since some vehicles will have a higher load capacity than others to start with. I have seen other ford cars (not C-max) with the pano roof and a rack, but again that is apples and oranges. As far as maximum functionality though, the pano roof (in general) would be a problem if you gotta haul stuff on the roof. Back to the original question, I am leaning more towards the dual carrier, and may do something with the blocks and a bar pad to hold one kayak flat when I only need to carry one of them. On a side note, I was looking a permanent roof rack installs last night and happened upon this: http://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4825&sid=110a0b7c84b0c9db89d607da156517ce There is a gutter strip cover on the flex which looks like the one on the c-max, and if they are similarly held in place, it seems likley that a low profile permanent attachment with the Yakima landing pads could be an option for folks who need more security than a clip on rack can provide. It would require drilling the strips, but that is much better than drilling the roof for a perma-rack. I am not really keen on selling my Thule rack and buying new Yakima stuff, but it could be a project I look at in the future.

I am looking for a kayak rack, ideally to hold 2, but I can get by with a single carrier. Most of the 2 kayak rack styles have a central post and the kayaks will load on their sides which would seem to be the worst for aerodynamics (which probably does not matter so much once a 50lb kayak is strapped to the roof). I am guessing that the lower profile ones where the kayak is either upside down or sitting normally would be better with regard to airflow, and not causing a problem with crosswinds. My current kayak is 10' x 28" Right now I am stuck between these: Inno dual carrier (INA450) Inno locking carrier (no pads) - I will probably buy some foam v shaped blocks or wrap around bar pads if I go this route. I am not committed to these, they just looked like the best for the money and have good reviews (any suggestions would be great).

Never seen this, but mine is the bare bones turn the key type.

Agreed about not letting this forum scare you away from the C-max. It is a nice car that fills a big place in the hybrid market that until now only the Prius has owned - and despite the problems metioned in this forum I'd buy it again. But knowledge is a good thing, and it is wise to know as much about a car like this (first year model) as you can, since rarely is a car perfect - I'd suggest to expect, and keep an eye out for issues with a car as new and complex as the C-max is. It may not be a big deal, or it could leave you stuck (dead battery) because you did not recognize a warning sign. You can bet Ford will fix the problems that do occur though, there is at least one owner who received a replacement vehicle after a serious problem kept re-occurring. To me, having Ford stand behind the car means more than a few problems which have cropped up.

Damn, that is ugly. I thought for sure it must be a mistake, but hey when I checked mine, they are just as bad if not worse. My C-max has never seen snow or a salted road (or a road that ever was salted for that matter). Seems shoddy, how much does paint cost these days? :nonono: Sorry for the crap pics, my camera battery just died and they were the best 2 I could get.

I think there are two types of this problem occurring at least in my case. The first is pretty frequent where after shifting into reverse, there is a pause and then it will smoothly start rolling backward normally in electric mode. The pause may be 2-3 seconds, not usually more, but it is noticable if you are looking for it (but it is not very memorable unless you are driving the car for the first time). The second type is much more memorable, where after shifting into reverse, the engine starts up and runs for several seconds with no change in the motion of the vehicle, gently gassing it did nothing but make noise (unless it did decide to move, then watch out). Just like the first type, it will start moving - when it is ready, and though I have not measured it, I would say it could be something around 5 seconds after putting it in gear. Sometimes with the second type I have also noticed some cruching noises from the brakes when it happens. Additionally I suspect that the second type occurrs when the battery is below 50% charged (I noticed that the last time it happened a couple days ago). The main thing is to be aware of it, since it is a potential danger when backing out of a parking spot - that is, if it does not move, don't give it more gas, give it more time. I need to take my car in to have a clicking noise from the front wheel checked out, and will ask if they have any update on the TSD which Ceemax71 posted (thanks again for finding it).

No offence taken, I hope you are not offended that it took me > a month to reply :D The weather here is actually ideal and I am a very conservative driver, so I can see your point, but on the other hand I seem to fit into the middle of the curve at Fuelly so I am not sure what to believe. I suspect that if I told the dealer that fuel economy was not up to my expectations I would get the old song and dance about "YMMV", etc. I will make a point to ask them when I hit the time for the first service, though. Thanks for the reality check.

Thanks ceemax71 for posting the TSB, hopefully they have a fix for this or will soon. I requested that the mods move this to the TSB section.

I'm not quite as fast as MTBerman, but it was probably an hour and a half with adding some 3m clear bra material under the pads. The only thing I would do different is waiting a half day between putting the 3m material on and placing the rack on the roof - I got some buckling on the clear bra material so I will have to do it over again.

After upgrading from a 16mpg SUV to the C-max I enjoy driving quite a bit more. The C-max is really a nice car to drive, good visibility (rear visibility could be better), quiet ride and a nice interior. I used to do about 8K a year and will probably do 12k this year.

MTB, the rims look great, I had not seen the gloss plasti-dip but will have to keep it in mind if I have a similar project. I am really happy with the stock rims on my blue cmax, but the black rims with the white paint looks great (oops I think I mentioned that already). I also plasti-dipped the rims on a buddy's car recently, was pretty easy though time consuming due to the prep but they also turned out really well. I posted a little how-to on my blog about it. I even touched some scratches up recently and I can't tell where the repairs were, the stuff is pretty awesome.

I don't expect my Cmax to burst into flame anytime soon (though I have nothing to base this on since I cannot seem to find much info on the pack - even if it uses 18650 cells or some other size). A bigger concern for me is if there will be degraded performance over time (especially with exposure to heat in the summer). The Emergency Response Guide mentioned the following: "Thermal Sensors — In the event the battery is exposed to extreme hot ambient conditions and/or is being driven extremely aggressively withcompromised cooling, power limits will be employed to prevent overheating.However, if the battery is in use and does become too hot, contactors willbe opened and the vehicle will shut down. In some instances, if the ignition keyis left in the “ON” position, this could cause the high-voltage batterytemperature to exceed 60°C (140°F); if this temperature is reached, thethermal sensors located near the high-voltage battery will automaticallydisable the high-voltage battery." 140°F seems like a lot, however a sealed up vehicle can get up to that and more according to this article - which described a test performed by the Phoenix Fire Department to demonstrate the conditions inside a card parked with windows up on a 100°F day: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/07/23/20100723phoenix-fire-department-cars-summer-tips.html?nclick_check=1 Unfortunately based on the way the C-max starts the engine, a shutdown battery means a shutdown Cmax. Obviously Ford has tested the car in the heat and I read somewhere they even tested in Phoenix, but it still makes me a bit concerned about the summer temps and how this car will tolerate the heat.

I got one from "Strategic Vision" which I filed away in the bin after seeing the questions were mostly about me and not about the car. I don't mind helping Ford out with my opinions, but I think some of these surveys are using the guise of a survey about the car as a pretext to getting more marketable info on the buyer.

Thanks for the heads up on this, I did not know about the fuse location or the 2nd odbII port, will have to go hunt for them later. Myself (after finding such a poorly considered location for a fuse panel) I'd just take it to the dealer and let them mess with it (yeah, dumb, but Ford built it so until it is out of warranty, they should own the headaches).

Well I have the SE without the Push-Button-Start, but some of the things you mentioned seem similar - though I think this is not the same issue as the reversing problem. What I have noticed (and come to expect) when backing out is a several second delay before getting any movement in reverse - though no CEL. This can be a real hazard if a person is not expecting it which is why I warn people who are going to drive my car about it (the natural reaction of some folks it to gas it if it ain't movin, then 3 seconds or so later, it pop's into motion). I recall seeing a TSB (which was mentioned above) at the dealer recently which noted the problem and recommended waiting 3 seconds. Did you see this problem again and did the Ford dealer show you the current list of TSB's? It could be that there is one which may click for you based on what you observed, but they may have passed it over.

Oops, I must have been smoking something. I just checked and mine was built in August, I bought it in October so I should have known better :doh: Aside from a dead 12v battery, I've not had any major problems either. With JLD's similar sounding problem with the dead battery also, I wonder if the two (12v battery + module) are somehow related (not suggesting that is the sole cause of dead 12v batteries). It would be great to know exactly what the module / modulator is that Cassedy and JLD have/had problems with.

Ouch, they say the price should be $79k in volume. Could probably do better for the money with a Highlander.

Something to consider when going for a roof rack (myself never having a third party roof rack before, did not know this) - my local car wash said they are not allowed to run them through their machines since things get caught up - and that was even if I removed the bike rack rails. So now I'm working on a simple way of positioning the rack so I can remove and re-install it without a bunch of measuring each time.

Gotcha, I suspect most cold weather c-max owners have a problem with #1 and #5 when they have a problem getting good FE in cold weather, but it makes sense. At least for myself #2 is n/a and #5 is rarely an option, but every commute is unique. I probably average 35-45mph in my typical commute, and since temps have been going up, so have my mpg's.

Some pics would be cool if they let you, would be interesting to see whats under the skin. I also have an early build (October IIRC), so am crossing my fingers this is an isolated problem (yes I am selfish). Since this was diagnosed as a faulty module, does that change anything with regard to the danger the problem could have posed to first responders which you mentioned earlier?

Although I have seen mid to upper 30's on the freeway in much warmer weather, I have never seen 60 in the city (except instantaneous when running in electric) even with temps in the 70's so I have to ask - is your driving style not typical (extreme hypermiler) or do you have some other method of getting the car up to temp in the city driving such as a block heater, vent covers, or deer antler spray? ;) Seriously, if you have some tricks it would be helpful to know since cold weather is very hard on the mpgs with this car (like all cars). I think what has bothered people regarding the EPA number is not that the EPA number is considered representative, but rather the pairing of the EPA number with Ford marketing it as 47mpg, along making the comparison to the Prius V. I think people are a bit shocked to see the difference between the advertised mpg and (what seems to be typical) FE when they start driving it - most likely caused by the temps and the season when the car was released. I'd suspect that if Ford will learn anything from this, it will be to release a hybrid in the spring and not the fall.

Yeah, that is the weakness of relying on any roadside assistance - you put yourself at the mercy of their schedule and policies. Having a spare or at least the kit to plug the tire at least gives you options when you need them. I had a problem where the dealer wanted to tow the vehicle in, and they told me it would be over 2 hours, so I just took care of the problem myself. A couple questions though - a 3/8" slit seems too big for the plug kit I have, can you post any info on the one you used? Also, did you have to replace the TPMS after using the mobility kit?