CNCGeek

Thanks for sticking it out and posting the summary, the audio sucks so much I had to turn it off - sounds like they are inside a fish tank, with bells, chimes and keys clicking. I just tried again and started from the middle, at least it is watchable from there. Good to see Ford putting an engineer out there honestly answering questions without the marketing BS.

I don't watch my trip mpg's that closely anymore, but I did see some over 50 recently so I think when I put in my next Fuely update there will be an improvement, the warming weather here will really help.

The C-max has enough cargo room for me, but I admit that it won't be carrying bikes in the way you describe. The Prius V may be worth a look (or second look) - I think I heard an echo when I had the seats down at the dealer, I'm sure a couple bikes would fit, though the front wheels would probably have to be removed.

Thanks, it looks much more organized than the last time I had my bike in the back of the C-max.

I agree, a dead battery sucks, but I doubt it is something that will plague most owners. I also forgot to mention that Ford did swap my 12V battery which was found to be bad. I suspect (and hope) the bulk of 12v problems are due to failed 12v batteries which is an easy fix. The dealer told me the 12v battery has a 3 year warranty.

Impressive work, hopefully as the weather warms up more people will have a chance at getting those numbers.

Looks good Wamba, nice that it runs over the edge of the bumper too. It is probably the 3M material which is pretty tough so you wont have to worry about scratches. I picked up a roll of the 3M clear bra material on Ebay to use under the pads on my roof rack, and have some left over, but I did not think to try it before I installed my plastic bumper protector. Did the installation require soapy water and a rinse of 50/50 alcohol and water? That's what the 3M stuff calls for. I went with the black plastic protector since it is going to take more abuse from my dog, and provides some extra traction when when she jumps in the back (she needs all the help she can get these days). :dogwalk:

Your post got me thinking about a cup shaped container with a lid that I had seen somewhere, but then I found this. It seems perfect for change hoarders who end up with nickels quarters and dimes under the seats and at the bottom of the cup holders (I'm speaking of myself of course). I'm not buying it though since I am holding out for the container with the lid.

I would have bought the C-max if the economy number was in the lower 40's (which is what I expect to get during the spring/summer). I am not a fan of the Prius due to the seats, and the handling - it's a great car with a good rep, but just did not work for me. The C-max has a much nicer interior and seats IMO. My second choice would have been the Crosstrek from Subaru, but the better FE pushed me to the C-max (and the Crosstrek was not widely available at the time). Insurance was not much of an issue in my case since it was going up either way - prior car was 10 years old and had basic coverage.

Great post! I am interested in the ICE high mode - do you have more info on how that works? Does it only work between 58-60mph?

PTJones had discussed installing a heater and recommended a smaller wolverine pan heater, the larger one he installed actually increased the operating temps of the engine even without having it on prior to starting so I believe he removed it. I am not sure if he has posted anything about the smaller wolverine heater performance or not. You should check out his threads on the grill vent blocks - though personally I am waiting for more info on how they impact the temps of the inverter - doh! I suspect you have already seen those posts and are aware of the grill blocks.

That's pretty harsh ;) - consumers have a god given right to complain :rockon: A couple counter points though: - the anecdotal evidence is all there is for real world data. CR tried to do a "real world" test, and nobody few here agree with it (though I believe that CR's testing continues). If you discard the CR data and the anecdotal evidence (from Fuelly, reviews, and what users say on the Internet), how do you reach any conclusion on real world fuel economy? I also doubt that any car manufacturer would risk putting false data out for competitor vehicles on Fuelly or forums like this one - that would lead to some very bad PR and probably a big lawsuit. - I agree 100% on the cold weather - that is likely the biggest factor to poor fuel economy right now (based on the excellent posts here and especially PTJones's research). - Given the 2nd point, it may take more than a small effort to overcome poor fuel economy in the winter months, and may not be possible to gain much at all if trips are short (point is that it may have nothing to do with being lazy) :rant2:. I like the tips in the link, but I personally don't buy into the idea that hypermiling should be necessary to get the rated economy - you can increase the FE of any car using those techniques and often get much better than EPA numbers. OTOH, I also don't buy the EPA test number to begin with - but it is what they advertise and the "industry standard" so it is the only benchmark out there. The controversy, and even the lawsuit (which I think is premature at best) could help change the EPA testing if there is enough pressure from the industry - that could be the silver lining.

I agree. I had some 3M double sided tape I could have used, but it was not needed. They even set up the tape with tabs that stick out so you can place it down on the bumper and get the position perfect, then tape part of it down in position and peel the tape while it is in position so you don't need to mess around with peeling the tape and then placing.

Thanks, I attached a pic of the install manual showing how they suggest placing the rack: W = 290mm / 11 3/8" (from the windshield to the front edge of the front foot) Z = 785mm / 30 7/8" (center to center between front and rear feet) I measured mine, and from the way it is mounted, the measurement from the front edge of the front (aero)bar to the front edge of the rear bar is 31 1/4".

Somehow it managed 5 stars for that test - a heck of a lot of damage, but also a heck of an impressive test.

That's a piece of beef fit for Ron Swanson, though I'd suspect he would prefer a different beverage. Me, I'm a simple man, I like steaks off the backyard grill.

I finally installed the bumper protector, well worth the $40 if it keeps my dog from scratching up the bumper.

I finally put the roof rack on my C-max today. Probably just kicked my fuel economy down another few mpg just slapping it on there, but I like it, and need something to get the bikes around easier. I have a write up on the install here.

Interesting graph and the forum there is full of great info. Reading some of the posts there it looks like it was compiled from tests run at different speeds (steady state) and he attempted to keep the battery around 50% at the end (so I'm guessing he started at that as well). It was indicated in some posts that the testing was done as a 10mile drive for each speed with a +/- 10 ft difference in elevation from start to finish. Seems like a really decent test, but also surprising - makes me hopeful for an improvement in my fuel economy.

I'd not worry too much about the 12v problems at this point. If anything just being aware that the battery is small and can be discharged easier than you think should be enough to prevent the problems unrelated to defective 12v batteries. FWIW, my battery went dead around 2800 miles of mostly being driven 15-25 miles a day in several trips. I did pick up a portable booster however, which I'd of bought sooner or later anyway since I've jump started many vehicles before I had my C-max. If you do get a portable booster for your c-max (if it concerns you), you probably don't need a big one - when I jumped my c-max, it was ready to go as soon as I hooked up the booster - basically the car woke up, and I could start it without the booster attached. I think all that is needed is enough juice to start the computer and energize some relays - after that the dc-dc converter and the HV pack probably take over and get the engine started.

This should be pinned! My owners manual is already getting rough around the edges.

The argument that graphic is making has confused me - is it saying that the CR data is reliable, but "hey we did better than the Prius" or the data is ridiculous since "look how badly the Prius did in comparison"? Either way it smells like something put together by marketing folks so my BS radar was already engaged - and it does nothing to support the EPA ratings for the C-max, which is what I feel this discussion is about. What seems more important to me (more than the CR data) is the Fuelly data and other real world mpg numbers, along with the information posted here regarding how sensitive the C-max is to temps, vehicle setup, and driving conditions. I agree that "fanboys" can ruin any discussion, but they seem to precipitate out on both sides of any issue where people feel they have hitched up to something bigger than themselves - they end up being background noise and I don't think they are moving this issue.

Nice post, and the scenery is beautiful. Not a bad looking C-max either. Over-inflating the tires seems counterintuitive for driving on snow, were there any noticeable traction issues with that setup? Stock tires right?

This would be my concern as well, the inverter temps and the motor temps with the covers installed. I think the covers are secured with velcro so that would seem pretty easy to remove - but I wonder about stowing the covers in the back on a long trip if it is packed full-o-stuff.

Regarding "the doubters", it seems perfectly normal when things don't add up, which they don't for many people (I am not saying there are not perfectly sound reasons for it not adding up). When somebody buys a hybrid (with prior experience driving a normal car), they don't stop driving the way they always have, so they are probably disappointed. Manufacturers don't seem to emphasize the difference to consumers - aside from the fuel economy benefits, so that adds to the disappointment of poorer than expected fuel economy - and doubt. Ford's brake coach and other "coaches" help, but they can't help with the weight of the vehicle, horsepower, temperatures, geography, roads, and speed limits. Going up against the Prius V (which is lighter with a slightly better CD) also does not help when people doubt the EPA number on the C-max. Objectively the doubters are likely correct, it is where the "blame" lies which is probably the more relevant question. Myself, I don't doubt the EPA number from Ford as much as the EPA testing itself. Unfortunately Ford could not get the EPA to take another look at their testing protocol for Hybrids. IMO, having the EPA test the C-max is a good thing however since it will erase any suspicions about Ford's test. I'd suspect that Ford may even want the EPA to test it, due to the gap between the rated 47mpg and the numbers being posted in reviews and at Fuelly. And if there is any difference in the results, it would be better to get it out of the way sooner than later.