hybridbear

Gearing changes to me sound like changes to the size of the gears, as is a larger MG2 or some other change like that. I wish some organization or college would buy a C-Max/FFH to take apart and study their eCVT and then do the same with an Energi to see if they're different. I believe they must be slightly different based on the different horsepower numbers, etc but I don't know what is different. To allow the atkinson cycle 2.0 to run with a lower viscosity oil they must be making some changes to the ICE. I'm surprised that they would make changes to the ICE just in the C-Max and not in the FFH as well. It seems like their costs would be lower keeping the powertrains identical between the two vehicles. I remember when the FFH and C-Max were first being introduced Ford had some videos out showing how much of an aerodynamic focus went into the design of the FFH to reduce its cd and improve its fuel economy. The FFH has a lower cd than the Camry Hybrid as a result IIRC. The engineers talked about the shape of the roof line, the ridges in the hood of the FFH, the shape of the side mirrors, the little lip there is on the end of the trunk for FFHs without a spoiler and the almost complete underbody shielding as aerodynamic designs. The C-Max has the underbody shielding but not the other aerodynamic designs. I've noticed that the shape of the side mirrors on my parents' Energi is less aerodynamic than the FFH mirrors.

One benefit of all this is that overall I think consumers are becoming more educated to the process for EPA testing and overall people should have a better understanding of fuel economy after this.

I remember reading the extensive testing done by Wayne Gerdes and others and I agree that their assessment was very accurate. For a driver who doesn't care about maximizing fuel economy and who won't change their driving style those are very accurate ratings of what you could expect. I said the same thing they did since the beginning, how can the C-Max with more horsepower and more curb weight be more efficient than the Prius V. Physics says it isn't possible in the "real world". Unfortunately the outdated EPA test cycles say that the C-Max gets better fuel economy than the Prius V.

That's very fair. Thanks again for doing this.

I think this would make a great poll! I'd vote 60% EPA, 40% Ford.

I agree completely. I have no real loyalty to Ford other than that I now own a Ford hybrid. I am however a big proponent of hybrids & plug-in hybrids like the Energi. My biggest reaction to this is sorrow that this will hurt the overall hybrid sales because people overall will now stay away from hybrids in general.

Where do you find the data that Ford submitted to the EPA? Can you share a link please? I'd be interested to see that. Really neat graphics! Not surprisingly the low population density states have higher speed limits. I agree that you can't bias the test for the 20% of people in those states. A standardized test will never be all things to all people, that's impossible. I like the suggestions that the EPA add "steady cruising MPG" at certain speeds like 60, 65 & 70 MPH as a factor in calculating highway fuel economy. However, I doubt we'll see changes like that considering how the manufacturers have complained about testing costs and thus have the option of doing what Ford did using the Fusion numbers for the C-Max instead of testing it separately. If the manufacturers can't be bothered to test every car individually then they definitely won't like the idea of adding additional tests. I do think that the 5 cycle testing should be mandatory for all vehicles, no more of this 2 cycle testing plus some fuzzy math. I think mandatory 5 cycle testing would help give consumers better data on the window stickers too. I agree! I have said since December after investigating the EPA test cycles and everything else that Ford took a calculated risk here. I doubt they planned for this decision to cost them upwards of $15 million in the cash payments, not counting the brand image damage, stock price hit and lost sales. I'd figure the stock damage alone could be hundreds of millions of dollars depending on how the market reacts today to this news. I wonder now how many people will lose their jobs who were part of the decision to save a maybe a few tens of thousands of dollars by not testing the C-Max separately (I have no idea what it costs a manufacturer to run the EPA cycles on their cars so I'm just guessing) when that decision will now cost Ford hundreds of millions. The objective of a public company is to bring a return to their shareholders. Ethics is not a part of business. If companies behaved ethically of their own accord we would never have had the Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, et al scandals. If companies behaved ethically there would be no need for Sarbanes Oxley. We aren't privy to the internal discussions between Ford executives and the EPA to know what happened, but I would venture a guess that the EPA tested the C-Max, got lower numbers and they gave Ford the chance to address it. Ford technically didn't break, or even bend, any rules, but the EPA would have had to release their results which would have made Ford look bad. I think that just as much blame belongs with the EPA as with Ford for having such stupid rules. It's also important to note that Ford isn't the only company to do this. Honda just released a new hybrid in Japan that beats the Prius on the Japanese test cycle for fuel economy, but everyone knows that the Honda hybrid will not beat the Prius fuel economy in the real world. Honda merely programmed that car to ace the Japanese tests. So what? Buyer beware is still the adage that we should all live by. Exactly. I agree that this was bad judgement on Ford's part, but not illegal. It was a foolish decision that now Ford stockholders will pay the price for.

Awesome picture!

Thanks so much for making these for Fusion owners too! PayPal payment sent!

Matt - Like you we get 55+ MPG around the city in our FFH. I have not seen any improvement since the update. It seems that if you're already getting great gas mileage you aren't going to see any improvement. The people getting so-so gas mileage seem to be the ones seeing the most improvement and those with poor mileage (likely because of their driving habits) don't see much improvement. I hope you do see better gas mileage, but try not to be disappointed like I was if it doesn't get any better.

This past weekend my dad and I looked but didn't see where the plug is for the block heater on their Energi. The window sticker and Etis show that their car has one, as is standard on C-Maxes sold in Minnesota, but we don't see the plug. The owner's manual describes the operation of the block heater but does not address the location of the plug. It doesn't appear to be easy to find like the plug is on our Fusion Hybrid where it's part of the left fog light molding. Does anyone know where the plug is? Thanks!

Ford warranty covers the cost of an Enterprise rental only if the car is kept overnight. It shouldn't be an issue to get a rental if your car is being kept overnight. If it's a 1 day job then it's up to the dealer if they'll provide you anything or not.

I posted a topic on the FFH Forum with links to your work here so we can see how many FFH owners are interested. How tall are you thinking you'd make the lip for the FFH? It seems like our glovebox has a much shorter opening from top to bottom but is wider side-to-side. I'd think it would need to be pretty short to still allow you to reach over it to items inside. But yes I am interested in one for our Fusion. Thanks! Here's a link to the FFH Forum topic

I've found that ET Mode matches radar speed signs. And I've found that a cell phone app using GPS speed seems to be in between the two.

This is true in the FFH. When I've driven by radar signs that show your speed they concur with the ET Mode speed.

I guess you're paying the price for living in sunny California, Jus

Have you done anything to protect your car like waxing it or Zaino? You might want to consider washing and using a clay bar on the affected area and the entire car to get it clean and then protecting it with Zaino, wax or whatever product you feel comfortable with. I had never heard of Zaino before the FFH Forum, now I used their products on our Fusion Hybrid and on my parents' C-Max Energi and the shine is unbelievable! Same thing with the benefits of using a clay bar to clean the grit off the paint. I couldn't believe how rough the paint on my parents' brand new C-Max was before we did clay bar on it.

This is why I'm apprehensive about the upgrade. None of those 3 scenarios are favorable. Perhaps Ford is letting it exceed the limit with the update but the computer will limit how long we can drive at 62+ MPH in EV mode to protect the MG1, at least I sure hope so!!

It does! I didn't realize that the C-Max doesn't until my parents noticed on their Energi. I had told them about this feature and they thought the C-Max had it too

My wife and I currently just have 1 car that we share (our FFH) because we're both able to walk to work most of the time and we plan out when each of us needs the car. However, my wife is considering changing jobs where she would need the car to commute and this would mean we would go back to having 2 cars. The higher pay of the potential job would offset the increased costs of owning 2 vehicles and we'd come out ahead. We'd likely look at leasing the 2nd vehicle because long-term our plan is to have only 1 car. Of course, any car we get has to be a hybrid and plug-ins are unfortunately excluded because we can't plug in at our apartment. I've asked and been told that it isn't an option and they aren't willing to consider it. Toyota has a great lease deal right now on the Prius but I don't really like the idea of getting a Prius because of the cheap quality interior. If we could find a C-Max lease deal for a comparable price to the Toyota lease we would give up a few MPGs to have the nicer vehicle. Unfortunately I'm not finding any lease offers for the C-Max advertised by local dealers in the Twin Cities area or by Ford. I'm curious what ppl are seeing for lease deals locally where you live and if they could please share as many details as possible about those leases. I might be able to use lease deals from other regions to convince a dealer to do business with us here. Thanks!

Thanks Jus! :rockon: :happy feet:

Sorry to hear that you were disappointed by your C-Max. At least you're still driving a hybrid. I am a fan of hybrids and I hope that you are too and that you won't let your poor C-Max experience cause you to discourage others from buying hybrids, be they C-Maxes or Prii or any other alt fuel vehicle. Promoting alt fuel technology is in the best interests of everyone on Earth.

Exactly! This shows that the problem lies with the EPA for allowing this. Ford found a loophole and exploited it. In the long run this might backfire on them, but I believe they took a calculated risk in what they did and how they've promoted both the C-Max and the FFH.

Having owned a 2006 Honda Accord Hybrid I can attest to how awful the Honda hybrids have been. Their Integrated Motor Assist system is garbage compared to the Ford & Toyota hybrids. The Honda IMA system uses a weak electric motor sandwiched between the ICE and the automatic tranny to provide boost and regen braking. Mostly the Honda hybrids only save gas by turning off the ICE when stopped. The regen brakes in the Hondas are terrible and since the car cannot drive on electric power only at any speed (as soon as you release the brake the ICE comes back on) it means that gas mileage isn't great. The Accord Hybrid however was great on the freeway because 3 cylinders would shut down and it would drive on the other 3 while on the freeway. We were able to get 45 MPG over a couple hundred miles of 55-60 MPH highway across Minnesota in that car. Highway gas mileage was great in that car up to 65 MPH, then above 65 MPH the gar wouldn't really go into 3 cylinder mode because the power demand was too high so then gas mileage really dropped. I could get around 40 MPG on long highway drives at 65 MPH with cruise control. But around the city it would struggle to get 25 MPG driving the same way that we get 55 MPG in our Fusion Hybrid. I'm really curious to see the new Honda Accord Hybrid that uses a two-motor hybrid system like the Ford & Toyota hybrids.

Will the dealer order one from the factory for you to lease? If they'll do that then your best option may be ordering one to lease and waiting for it to come. The issue also could be that Ford isn't allocation many Energis to Canadian dealers so they are blocked from getting them even if they want to or could sell them.