hybridbear

Ford later retracted the comments http://www.businessi...vers-gps-2014-1 http://www.thecarcon...hat-youre-doing http://www.foxbusine... - News - Text) I wonder if this exec will still have a job come Monday after this blunder...

Grille blocking is helpful even in warmer weather. Validation for the benefits of grille blocking http://transportevol...rm-this-winter/ Even with temps in the 50s you'll benefit.

Crazy!!

Thanks, I'm glad it's helpful. I need to revisit the numbers again to verify again because the cold winter weather could affect the way the car behaves. I've also seen the limit in EV to only 1 bar even when SOC is high. It appears that this happens when the heat is on and the coolant is almost too cold to continue making heat. Thus the car limits your EV by kicking the ICE on at lower power demands. I've also seen the 1 bar limit to EV when the HVB is very cold. With our cold weather I've seen the HVB temp be below 0. When the HVB is cold there is a noticeable difference in how it operates. When it's that cold it discharges much more quickly and charges more slowly. Since it discharges more quickly when very cold you cannot get as many amps out of it which limits how many watts the electric motor can provide to the wheels. In the cold weather after the car sits outside the HVB might only warm up about 30 degrees above ambient after an hour of driving. Once the cabin temp heats up the car will turn on the HVB fans to warm up the battery. Once the battery warms up then you can get more than just 1 bar of EV.

I started with the Prius stages and compared those notes with what I observed in the FFH. I used ET Mode to monitor coolant temps and over time began to see patterns. I have gotten into the habit of turning on ET Mode every time I start the car as I find it helps me to be more efficient when the ICE is cold. With my ScanGauge I don't need the Empower screen to drive efficiently. Thus, I can watch the coolant temp in ET Mode. The coolant will first shut off at 40C when stopped. After that it takes subsequently higher temps to turn off the ICE. The PCM update lowered the temps to allow the ICE to shut off more. My car gradually learned the new temps to shut of the ICE after the PCM update. The first day after the update it wouldn't shut off at 40C consistently, but after about a month of driving it was consistently shutting off at 40C. I imagine the C-Max is the same since it's the same powertrain.

Thanks for the reply. When I read the MN Lemon Law I somehow missed the section about calculating buyback. MN's pricing is better than the Cali law you quote. MN is $.10/mile or 10% of MSRP, whichever is less. When we traded in our black FFH rather than fight for Lemon Law we got about $6500 less than we paid, $7500 when you could taxes/license fees. With a Lemon Law claim we would have gotten about $2000 less than we paid originally. However, the new car we got came with $2000 in Ford incentives that were only available on the 2013s that we wouldn't have gotten if we had pursued Lemon Law and then gotten a 2014. The 2014s also don't have the Lifetime Summary which I find to be very valuable. The other factor is that in MN you don't pay sales tax on the value of the trade-in. That was another $1500 in savings versus a Lemon Law reimbursement and then buying another car. So ultimately we got about $2000 less than if we had done a Lemon Law claim. While our issues were incredibly frustrating and our car had spent 30 days at the dealer in the first 11 months, some of those days were because the dealer screwed up and broke parts, not because parts were defective from the factory. Overall, we were very frustrated but we didn't have a slam dunk Lemon Law case. Thus, my wife & I decided to just trade-in our FFH for a new one and give up that $2000 rather than take a shot at Lemon Law, potentially get denied, and then have it cost us even more money. So far our new white FFH has been flawless and we're very happy with our decision as we now have a number of extra features that we didn't spend the money for the first time around. We still wish we had push button start, but adding Lake Keep Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control, BLIS, Active Park Assist, etc have been awesome!

How is the car value calculated for your check?

Check out what I've documented for warm up stages here

As far as the comparison to the Energi ratios goes...when I have driven my parents' Energi in hybrid mode I have found it to be terribly inefficient compared to the FFH. The FFH uses the ICE to charge the HVB pretty much anytime the ICE is on. The Energi seems to operate more like the Prius and runs the ICE for more time at a lower power demand, rarely using it to charge the HVB. Their Energi has about the same number of ICE miles as our second (current) FFH. On the same 60 mile highway trip in very similar weather, the Energi got only 35-36 MPG in hybrid mode, the FFH manages 39-40 MPG. That's basically a 10% difference. Some of this is aerodynamics, but some of it is the way the ICE ran. The FFH typically has 35-40% of those miles in EV mode, the Energi did only 20% of the miles in EV Mode. The FFH ICE usually shows a LOD on the ScanGauge of 85+ indicating that the ICE is running very efficiently when the power output is 35-43 HP and the HVB is being charged. The Prius does so well on the highway because Toyota designed its ICE to run very efficiently with a low (15-20 HP) power output showing LOD numbers of 80-90. Since the C-Max Energi didn't really use the ICE to charge the HVB the power output was often only about 20 HP and the LOD was 65-70. This is very inefficient and leads to lower fuel economy. I hope Ford doesn't mess with the gearing of the hybrid too much to make it worse. Perhaps that is why the 2014 hybrids have been so delayed...they can't get it to work correctly. Has anyone bothered asking Ashley to check on the 2014s? She's been very helpful on the FFH Forum.

Government tests have shown that battery degradation is not an issue in hybrids. The hybrids use a very small portion of the HVB. Capacity loss is not an issue. See these links: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7492-understanding-the-ffh-better-with-a-scangauge/?p=69378 http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/hev/batteryfusion4757.pdf http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/hev/end_of_life_test_1.pdf

Has anyone found this online? I couldn't find it on YouTube...

What damaged the rear of the car? I only knew about the deer hitting the front... Glad to see that your MadMax is back!!

I posted this in another 2014 topic but I'll add it here too... The only 2014s at dealers are 2014 Energis...2014 Hybrids are nowhere to be found. I believe the 2014 Energi is unchanged from the 2013 Energi. It appears that Ford has not started production on 2014 hybrids, just 2014 Energis.

The only 2014s at dealers are 2014 Energis...2014 Hybrids are nowhere to be found. I believe the 2014 Energi is unchanged from the 2013. It appears that Ford has not started production on 2014 hybrids, just 2014 Energis.

1/2 insulation fits between the grille slats. See pics of on our FFH and on my parents' C-Max Energi Squeezed between the slats the foam will not move. Since it also hooks around the slats with the slits I cut in it to match them it is quite solid. I've driven 70 MPH on the interstate and washed the car numerous times with no movement of the foam. I've observed that the change in peak coolant temp is pretty small, maybe 10 degrees F. The big improvement is in how quickly the ICE gets warm. Less than 3 miles at 60-65 MPH will get the coolant temp from 20-30C up to 80+C. Engineering Test Mode is really useful for monitoring coolant temps as it allows you to see the exact temp in Celsius instead of just the vague temp gauge on MyView. I use ET Mode every time I start the car until the ICE warms up. Once the ICE is warm then I turn it off so I can see the Empower, etc screens again. That kind of grade would cause overheating in many cars in summer. A grille cover restricting airflow is just too much. I'm glad the car warned you Jus. How long had you been doing the 3 bar burn when the ICE got hot? We don't have much in the way of hills in MN but there is one freeway stretch where I'll climb with a 2 bar burn for a couple minutes at 60-ish MPH and that will get the coolant up over 90C. Usually it settles in around 80-84C with full grille blocking and MN temps of <20F. Once I finish that climb and go back to alternating EV mode with ICE charging the coolant temp quickly drops back to 80-84C. In the city I've seen it hit 90C with outside temps 25F and 20+ miles of city driving. However, mostly in the city the coolant temp struggles to reach 80C and maintain 80C even with full grille blocking in MN. The time it hit 90+ C was a rare occurrence where I was driving in an area with a ton of stop signs so there was minimal EV run time. During the stretch where the coolant increased in temp so much my SOC also went from being <20% to >55% because of how much the ICE was running. The Prius does much better than the Fords at getting hot and maintaining heat in the winter. The Prius will quickly reach 193-195F coolant temp even with ambient temps of -10F. In the city the Prius will maintain 175-190F coolant temp with the heat running and outside temps <20F. Ford should learn from Toyota's design and improve the FFH and C-Max for the next gen so that they work better in cold climates. Here's a pic of the Prius grille blocking Sorry for the mix of Celsius and Fahrenheit... Since I monitor coolant temps in the Fords with ET Mode I use Celsius there because that's the display in ET Mode. I've gotten pretty good at converting Celsius from ET Mode to Fahrenheit in my head by doubling the C temp, subtracting 10% and then adding 32. The Prius temps are monitored with the ScanGauge so there I talk temps in Fahrenheit. Putting it between the vertical supports might allow your pieces to come out from air pressure at high speeds or from water pressure at the car wash. Notching the foam to hook around the vertical support bars will keep the foam securely in place. Dark colored foam that runs in one piece all the way across is also less visible that many pieces. See my pics above. The Prius was the first car that I blocked. Thus, it looks the worst because I didn't know what I was doing back in October as well as I do now. At some point I will redo the Prius grille so that it looks better and isn't in so many separate pieces.

Why is your ICE running while idling? The ICE shouldn't run when idling as that is very inefficient.

Very nice pic. Should be in a Ford advertisement

In my trips in the C-Max bringing my parents to and from the airport, etc recently I noticed how hard it is to keep the back window clear on slushy roads. The spray from the tires seems to get sucked up onto the back window by the airflow. I find that I'm often washing the rear window to see out of it. The back up camera also becomes so dirty that it is worthless for backing up because you can't see anything with it. I also have noticed that when driving in hybrid mode the exhaust gets sucked up by the air flow and I see all the white exhaust up high behind the back window. In our FFH I'll see a tiny amount of the white exhaust being lifted up beyond the level of the trunk at highway speeds but nothing like the turbulence behind the C-Max. Have others noticed the same thing?

Glad Maxine is back. I hope your recovery continues quickly as well!

How has the tape held up?

Dealers often sell cars cheaper than X-Plan. X-Plan pricing is good if you're buying a high demand model where dealers aren't giving discounts off MSRP. You should be able to get the car for the lower price that they're offering unless you already signed the paperwork. Are you saying that the car you're going to buy is now listed as $30 cheaper than X-Plan? If you signed paperwork then why is that car still listed for sale? It never hurts to follow-up with the dealer and ask about the incentives as they change constantly.

Really cool Matt! Your MPGs on the trip to MN were amazing for those speeds. That right there proves the benefits of your aero mods!

Are you referring to ICE High? Driving style, HVAC use and wind all play a large role. Even if both drivers set their Cruise Control at the same speed and were driving on the same day with the same temps/wind and same HVAC settings, you'd see a difference in MPG because of how they drive when not using cruise. Perhaps one accelerates more rapidly than the other when not using cruise and thus their MPG would be lower.

Very interesting. It seems though that these added charge cycles on the battery would only serve to further reduce its lifespan.

Interesting idea! I've found that EV+ for us nearing home doesn't work when we're coming home from Target (.7 miles away) or from the grocery store (.9 miles away), but if I drive home from work (1.3 miles away) it does but it is delayed in activating and doesn't turn on until I'm about 1 block from home.