2013 Cmax Energi is dead!

[mikekoz]

  We have had this car for about 10 years and as the title states, the car is just completely dead. I can use a portable jumper to start it, and after that it will work for several hours, but once I park it, it dies again. It has done this randomly ever since we had it, but this is happening more frequently now. About two months ago we had the 12V battery replaced in it after it died, and it has worked great up until a few weeks ago. I was going to have it looked at to see what the problem is, but has this happened to any of you? If so, what was the problem if the battery was OK? If the problem is with the main battery, the car is probably pretty much totaled. The last time I spoke to somebody at Ford about that they told me the main batteries in these vehicles were about $13,000.00 dollars. The main battery capacity is maybe 1/3 of what it was when it was new, but still gives me about 7-10 miles of all battery driving. Any help would be appreciated! 

[jzchen]

What model year?  There was a recall/TS-B that addressed a possible rear trunk lid harness short, at least for our '13...

[Izzy]

We have a 2010 Honda Odyssey that does the same thing.  For that car, it seems that there is something -- probably one of the doors -- that is somehow drawing on the battery.  If we drive it twice a day, it's fine. If it sits for more than 12 hours, we have to jump start it.  Anyway, seems like Ford (or any good garage) should be able to do an electronics diagnostic test to figure out what it is.

[mikekoz]

We took the car a month or so ago to our local repair shop and they diagnosed the problem (or what they thought it was) and reprogrammed the system computer and the car worked fine for about 2 weeks. About a week or so ago, I was driving it to work and the audio system started malfunctioning in an odd way. The system would turn on, but the volume control would not work and I could not turn it off. Fortunately, the volume was not too high! It had done this before and normally this was a sign that the car was about to die again, and that is what it did. This past weekend I jumped it and it started up, but after about 5-10 minutes it was dead again. Normally when I jumped it the car would work for a few hours. I guess the only thing left for us to do is take it to Ford and see what they can do, but I think the fix may be more money than what we want to put into it. If we do not take it to Ford, it will turn into an expensive decoration for our driveway! ?

[Bill-N]

Sounds like the 12V battery may be on its last legs.

[mikekoz]

On 3/20/2023 at 4:37 PM, Bill-N said:

Sounds like the 12V battery may be on its last legs.

That has been replaced twice since this problem started. Once back in October and again when the car was worked on this last time. I am not an expert, but maybe the main battery is going bad. It has lost about 60% of its capacity since it was new and maybe it quit. 

[nogoodbum]

As an outside observer, who has dealt with 12v battery issues on a non-Energi SEL model, I agree that this does sound like a bad 12v battery. I would like to point out that the particular 12v battery size and/or item number is/was used in a very limited number of Ford models. This means that a dealer or auto parts supplier will have a very slow turnover on this battery resulting in the fact that a battery may have sat in storage for years before you purchased it. If this happened once, it can happen twice just as easy. If you can check the battery build date not the sale date, [code translation for different makers available online]. If possible have the 12v battery load-tested. You can also get a voltage meter to be able to note voltage engine on, in accessory mode. & engine & accessory off. Try and note if you get voltage drops while in normal use especially if you get a large drop in engine & accessory off level as this may point to a battery drain problem. Hope this helps, Thanks for the read.

[homestead]

On 3/20/2023 at 5:37 AM, mikekoz said:

We took the car a month or so ago to our local repair shop and they diagnosed the problem (or what they thought it was) and reprogrammed the system computer and the car worked fine for about 2 weeks. About a week or so ago, I was driving it to work and the audio system started malfunctioning in an odd way. The system would turn on, but the volume control would not work and I could not turn it off. Fortunately, the volume was not too high! It had done this before and normally this was a sign that the car was about to die again, and that is what it did. This past weekend I jumped it and it started up, but after about 5-10 minutes it was dead again. Normally when I jumped it the car would work for a few hours. I guess the only thing left for us to do is take it to Ford and see what they can do, but I think the fix may be more money than what we want to put into it. If we do not take it to Ford, it will turn into an expensive decoration for our driveway! ?

The bolded text above tells me your sync was locking up.  If you don't pull the fuse 79 right away it would drain your 12v battery.

 

[mikekoz]

Well, we finally took the car to our Ford dealer and this is what they had to say:

 

 

Just got done talking with the technician about it. We have found that the Telematic Control Unit is what is turning on and is killing the battery. The unfortunate part is the due to the age of the vehicle, this part is now obsolete and we are not able to get it. This specific part isn't something we can get as a used part either because the TCU uses an internal sim card to connect your mobile devices to the vehicle allowing data between the two. When the TCU is activated in a vehicle, the SIM card becomes activated and is then tied to the serial number of the TCU. The TCU is also associated and registered with the VIN of the vehicle so the TCU unfortunately is unable to be swapped from one vehicle to another. The only options we have currently is to plug the TCU back in and risk it continuing to kill the battery or we can leave the TCU unplugged which only disables the use of mobile devices with the vehicle.

 

     They explained it a bit further to me and apparently if they leave the TCU unplugged, we will just not be able to use our mobile phones with the car. I can live with this right now as I never use this feature and just do not talk on the phone while driving. On the other hand, it is a bit odd to me that the part is obsolete, but I am betting a lot of that problem is due to the electronics in this car are made overseas. I also  think Ford stopped making the Cmax back in 2018. Have any of you out these had this happen, I am curious!?

[stolenmoment]

So, the TCU contains both the phone and bluetooth radios?  That would suck, I take phone calls all the time and the car reads (most) text messages to me.  I also have a 2013, and I've gotten used to losing the phone network (I never upgraded), but losing bluetooth would really annoy me.

[cr08]

On 11/23/2023 at 7:59 PM, mikekoz said:

Well, we finally took the car to our Ford dealer and this is what they had to say:

 

 

Just got done talking with the technician about it. We have found that the Telematic Control Unit is what is turning on and is killing the battery. The unfortunate part is the due to the age of the vehicle, this part is now obsolete and we are not able to get it. This specific part isn't something we can get as a used part either because the TCU uses an internal sim card to connect your mobile devices to the vehicle allowing data between the two. When the TCU is activated in a vehicle, the SIM card becomes activated and is then tied to the serial number of the TCU. The TCU is also associated and registered with the VIN of the vehicle so the TCU unfortunately is unable to be swapped from one vehicle to another. The only options we have currently is to plug the TCU back in and risk it continuing to kill the battery or we can leave the TCU unplugged which only disables the use of mobile devices with the vehicle.

 

     They explained it a bit further to me and apparently if they leave the TCU unplugged, we will just not be able to use our mobile phones with the car. I can live with this right now as I never use this feature and just do not talk on the phone while driving. On the other hand, it is a bit odd to me that the part is obsolete, but I am betting a lot of that problem is due to the electronics in this car are made overseas. I also  think Ford stopped making the Cmax back in 2018. Have any of you out these had this happen, I am curious!?

 

Find a new dealer because this is all a bunch of BS putting it frankly. The TCU is just for the FordPass app/remote access stuff and has nothing to do with phone/nav/etc usage. That is all handled solely by the APIM. The old 3G TCU's can no longer be replaced but Ford has 4G replacements available to be installed. That said, the 3G TCU's will still function and should not be causing undue battery drain even though the 3G networks have been shut down. Yours could be failing, but it's not a terribly common occurence. I'd get a second opinion given all of the inaccurate info you were given.

 

The TCU is also not tied to the VIN. A bunch of us have DIY upgraded ours with units pulled working from other vehicles. Zero issues with any VIN/vehicle attachment. Same with the APIM as well. The TCU can be left unplugged without any issue other than you'll lose the Value Charge/Go Times features if you use those. Those are another set of features that are operated by the TCU.

Edited November 24, 2023 by cr08

[cr08]

On 3/20/2023 at 8:37 AM, mikekoz said:

We took the car a month or so ago to our local repair shop and they diagnosed the problem (or what they thought it was) and reprogrammed the system computer and the car worked fine for about 2 weeks. About a week or so ago, I was driving it to work and the audio system started malfunctioning in an odd way. The system would turn on, but the volume control would not work and I could not turn it off. Fortunately, the volume was not too high! It had done this before and normally this was a sign that the car was about to die again, and that is what it did. This past weekend I jumped it and it started up, but after about 5-10 minutes it was dead again. Normally when I jumped it the car would work for a few hours. I guess the only thing left for us to do is take it to Ford and see what they can do, but I think the fix may be more money than what we want to put into it. If we do not take it to Ford, it will turn into an expensive decoration for our driveway! ?

 

If this continues to be a problem, this is the same old ACM issue that many other owners have run into. Temporary fix is pulling fuse 79 for a minute or so to force it to power cycle. The proper, permanent fix is to get your dealer to get the calibration updated on it. Beyond this, if the car dies pretty quickly or the 12v battery doesn't seem to hold a charge, it will need to be replaced one way or the other. Continuing to let this issue occur without fixing it will continue to drain and wear out the battery prematurely.

[jestevens]

I just had to pull my fuse for the amp going out again last week, and once last month. I'm not sure there's every any rationale.

[cr08]

On 11/26/2023 at 4:04 PM, jestevens said:

I just had to pull my fuse for the amp going out again last week, and once last month. I'm not sure there's every any rationale.

 

I don't think anything has been fully confirmed as a cause, but one coincidence that has come up numerous times and lines up with your timing there is Sirius updates. They just started a free preview last week which would have sent an activation signal and certainly could have triggered the issue.

 

Ultimately, the actual fix is known and the ACM calibration needs to be updated. TSBs are out for this not only for the C-Max but other Ford models as well. I have updated the factory module in my 2013 to a ~20162020 level calibration and it has been rock solid ever since.

Edited November 27, 2023 by cr08

[Bill-N]

On 11/26/2023 at 6:32 PM, cr08 said:

ACM ...2020 level calibration...

Where can this file be found?

[cr08]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:09 AM, Bill-N said:

Where can this file be found?

 

Forscan beta builds with the firmware update function have the option to download available updates right in the app. However due to reasons, the one I used is not available that way but is available directly from Ford at the link below. The link is a bit finicky. First time it may ask for your region/language and drop you back at the portal. Access the link again and it should go to the calibration download page. I'm sure there's better ways to get here.

 

https://www.motorcraftservice.com/diagnostic/Support?channelId=50&categoryId=288

 

My current calibration and strategy levels per Forscan. This is for a full featured AM/FM/HD/Sirius ACM. If yours is different or has a different base part # (ie: The CM5T-19C107 part. The suffix in this case changed with the new calibration), I wouldn't try to force this one unless you're willing to risk a brick of the unit. I'd start with whatever newer calibration levels Forscan offers and go from there.

 

Quote

ACM - Audio Control Module
Part number: CM5T-19C107-FY
Calibration level: CM5T-19C107-FY
Strategy : FM5T-14D099-MJ
Calibration: CM5T-14D100-FY

 

You'll need both the strategy and calibration files. It should be noted that originally this particular combination was not listed as an available/compatible combination for my ACM. This came about from another owner here with a 16/17 MY C-Max that had the same ACM part # listed but these newer calibration levels. I originally tried updating to the latest available that Forscan had listed but they introduced a new bug where the HD FM stations were WAY louder than the analog counterparts. This newer level sorted that and fixed the original freezing issue.

 

That all said, I'll leave the disclaimer here: I am not responsible for any bricks if you decide to DIY this. You should also have a 12v battery charger hooked up (You can't rely on the EVSE for Energi models for this) with at least 9A/10A capacity if there's any remote chance you're 12v battery is degraded. Forscan basically shuts down the entire car during the process, relying fully on the 12v battery for the duration.

 

The process is not that long or difficult. The flashing process is done under 10 minutes. If you're not comfortable with doing this yourself, go to your dealer. It should just be the cost of labor and if you're lucky they may cut you a deal on it.

 

I've been wanting to put together a tutorial for this particular issue but haven't had the time/energy to get around to it. And with Forscan recently restricting access to the beta builds necessary for firmware updates, most may not be able to or are willing to go that far. But for anyone who is already familiar with it/has access, this should get you going easily enough.

Edited November 27, 2023 by cr08

[mikekoz]

On 11/23/2023 at 9:13 PM, cr08 said:

 

Find a new dealer because this is all a bunch of BS putting it frankly. The TCU is just for the FordPass app/remote access stuff and has nothing to do with phone/nav/etc usage. That is all handled solely by the APIM. The old 3G TCU's can no longer be replaced but Ford has 4G replacements available to be installed. That said, the 3G TCU's will still function and should not be causing undue battery drain even though the 3G networks have been shut down. Yours could be failing, but it's not a terribly common occurence. I'd get a second opinion given all of the inaccurate info you were given.

 

The TCU is also not tied to the VIN. A bunch of us have DIY upgraded ours with units pulled working from other vehicles. Zero issues with any VIN/vehicle attachment. Same with the APIM as well. The TCU can be left unplugged without any issue other than you'll lose the Value Charge/Go Times features if you use those. Those are another set of features that are operated by the TCU.

       Thanks, but they have already done the work and delivered the car to us. I am going to start driving it to work tomorrow so we will see how it goes! If it dies again within the next 30 days (I do not know what their guarantee is on their work) I will just try to get the repair cost refunded and we may have to put money into getting a used vehicle. I am really hoping this resolves the problem because I really do not want to buy another car! 😔

[mikekoz]

On 11/23/2023 at 9:37 PM, cr08 said:

 

If this continues to be a problem, this is the same old ACM issue that many other owners have run into. Temporary fix is pulling fuse 79 for a minute or so to force it to power cycle. The proper, permanent fix is to get your dealer to get the calibration updated on it. Beyond this, if the car dies pretty quickly or the 12v battery doesn't seem to hold a charge, it will need to be replaced one way or the other. Continuing to let this issue occur without fixing it will continue to drain and wear out the battery prematurely.

 

        I have done that a few times since we have had the car and at the end of last year the 12V battery was replaced twice. Calibration was done by Ford and our local auto repair place various times. Ford did it a few times when the car was in warranty. I am going to start driving it again tomorrow and will see how it does. I will not be able to use my phone with the car though. I do not talk and drive but have sometimes played music via bluetooth using my phone or iPad. 

[cr08]

Given the (inaccurate) info provided so far and the lack of any work order to confirm what they did, I am highly skeptical that they fixed anything but just band-aided it at best. But I will be honestly surprised if they did. Keep in mind this issue also has the habit of not reoccurring for many months up to a year or so at a time for many owners.

 

Now the rest of this post is fully assuming the same audio-related symptoms are occurring (i.e., won't turn off, can't change volume, can't change sources, etc.) when all this takes place. I'm also assuming that once this is temporarily fixed, everything will function normally for a while? If so, it's 100% the ACM and needs the calibration updated if not done already ('Calibration' is Ford's terminology for firmware updates and can only be applied via their own IDS systems or a beta build of Forscan, as noted in my previous post). You say that 'calibration was done' but who knows what that means in this scenario or if it was even done to the correct module. I'm only wary because of the wildly incorrect info given about the TCU module. If you have any further info, like actual work orders/receipts detailing what they did, that will be helpful.

 

To clear the air on a few things and what modules we're talking about in this thread:

 

TCU - The Telematics module or 3G/4G modem. This covers the FordPass/remote access functions like remote start/lock/unlock via your phone ONLY. It also controls the Value Charge and Go Times functions. Disabling/unplugging this module will not affect any normal operation of the vehicle outside of these specific functions.

APIM - The Sync module itself. On 8" touch screen equipped vehicles, this sits directly behind and is attached to the screen. This obviously operates the touch screen but also Bluetooth, Nav (if equipped) and USB audio. Think of it as a fancy smartphone.

ACM - The AM/FM/CD/Sirius tuner and audio 'router'. This is the big silver box behind the touch screen/APIM where the CD slot sits. This will take commands and audio from the APIM for Bluetooth/Nav/voice prompts and routes everything out to the speakers and and is responsible for source changes/volume control. This is the module that actually acts up in these scenarios/with these symptoms.

 

I don't know what happened for you to lose Bluetooth audio other than possibly your dealer/mechanic pulled Fuse 67 for the TCU which is shared with the APIM (Fuse 79 is for the ACM only). But this would also lose the entire touch screen and possibly all audio in the process. Bare minimum AM/FM/Sirius audio may still work but that's all. To properly get rid of the TCU from the equation without losing other functions, they'd need to disconnect the module itself which is behind the driver side trim panel in the cargo area. Or they could have went AWOL and physically disconnected the APIM or ACM for whatever reason. More detailed info on how the system is functioning currently will help here.

 

IF you have access to a Bluetooth or USB OBD adapter (specifically one with MS-CAN capability) and Forscan either on your phone or on a Windows PC, you can pull the ACM info and what calibration level it is running currently so we can confirm if they actually did the job or not and at least establish a rough timestamp of the firmware in place. No actual updates or complex tasks needed here, we need the basic info that is read when Forscan connects to the vehicle. I've attached a screenshot of the mobile app below and what should be seen under the 'Vehicle' tab. On Windows PC's will be in a similar location but under the Modules tab (screenshot attached as well).

 

This issue certainly isn't cause to look for a new vehicle. It's not a complicated fix. Just your dealer/mechanic need to tackle the right thing instead of chasing red herrings here.

 

  

Edited November 28, 2023 by cr08

[mikekoz]

Here is a pic of the device which they removed. They did not do a good job of describing how this would affect the operation of the car however. My phone is working with the car as usual and everything else so far is working fine. We picked it up a few weeks ago and so far so good, but I am not going to trust the car until it works normally for several months. It apparently is the TCU as they said though. I have never used any of the functions this module controls so will not miss it!  We were given paperwork on what was done to the vehicle, but I am at work and do not have access to it right now.

 

[cr08]

That is the TCU and is the old 3G model. If that ends up solving the issue long term, then kudos. Hope it works out. As noted earlier, the only things you'll really lose are the ability to set the Value Charge and Go Times features. If you don't use those, then nothing lost. All the rest of the car including phone functionality will remain unaffected.

Edited December 13, 2023 by cr08