J.D Power rankings

[CassidyB]

This was previously posted, but locked due to issues with the person posting it..

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/06/20/ford-cmax-jd-power-initial-quality-study-iqs/2440589/

 

I wonder how the C-Max compares to other first year model intros.. Honestly I've had more issues than I expected.. New technology can have hiccups, but the fit/finish has been a slight disappointment. Fortunately my local Ford store has been awesome and has addressed anything that has popped up..

[Laurel]

Our fit and fitness has been excellent (knocking on wood that something doesn't crop up now).  I read the article but couldn't find any specifics.  We're happy, but will wait for the MFT upgrades until the techs have more practice or Ford works out the kinks as our MFT is excellent as it is.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Thanks CassidyB for the new thread, unfortunately that poster destroyed what legit discussion that could have been. That thread will be trashed when I get home, no one wants any dog t*rd sitting on their lawn.

 

The only fit issue I had wad that lil panel near the gas pedal but Galpin fixed that. I have no other fit issues. 

Edited June 20, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[Edsel]

I say it’s well deserved.  I have been to the dealership three times in the four months I have owned it.  We should start a dealership visit count thread.

[zalusky]

We bought two,  My wife's arrived a month after mine.  My fit and finish was perfect.  Her's had some scuff marks on the drivers side plastic runners which they took care ot.

Other than the TSB issues which have now been fixed (on the first try) we have not had any issues.

 

I had more issues on my other vehicles: Chrysler Minivan, and a VW Scirocco than I have had on this one. 

 

My average MPG as of right now is 47.5 with a 40 mile round trip commute.  I did reset the running average  once the breaking was over and warm weather started and after a stupid mistake when I left it on for 4 hours while attending a hockey game.

 

No complaints here but I would like to see better Apple and Siri integration so I dont have to rely on builtin applications.

Edited June 20, 2013 by zalusky

[Testdriver]

Considering Sync, MFT and mileage complaints are included in the JD Powers survey, 2.2 issues per vehicle doesn't seem that bad. I bought the car knowing full well that MFT was flaky and it wouldn't get 40 MPG in the winter, so those are not big deals to me.

 

It would be interesting if they attempted to weigh the issues. Like a dead battery issue would be a 10, and minor Sync/MFT complaints would be a 1. Mileage somewhere in between, then see how it compares to other vehicles.

[viennacoup]

I am very glad that I bought my CMax before this report came out.  Had I known of this report, I would have bought another car and missed out on the CMax.  I hope other buyers will look deeper and not let this bad publicity discourage them from buying a CMax.

[kbf1kbf1]

Not just below average, not just in the bottom quartile, but out of the several hundred car models evaluated, last, dead last, the worst. And, according to J D Power, the problems are mostly non-fixable design flaws.

 

Enjoy your Electric Edsels. Do your fellowman a favor and warn 'em off.

 

PS I returned two C-POS. 

[Jus-A-CMax]

It is always a risk when purchasing large ticket items whether u get a lemon or not, even high end Aston Martins/Jaguars have issues.  So being level headed and working with your dealership is the best course of action but inevitably there are still lemons. At that point sell it or use the lemon laws. However using any article/blog to indite an entire model is ludicrous, especially when there remains a majority of very satisfied owners.

 

I personally owned an 2004 Jaguar Xj lemon but you won't ever find me lambasting the Jaguar forums like a child ala kbf1 aka troll. And I paid a lot more money than this Cmax.

 

Let's keep up this good discussion, thanks everyone  :)

[plus 3 golfer]

Here's another link that shows the Ford brand ranks 27 / 33 in the 2013 survey with an overall brand score of 131. The C-Max at 222 is abysmal.

So, why is the number so high for the C-Max. Is the 222 due to higher % of design complaints than the industry average of 2/3 My guess is that given the "no start", tail gate, and the MFT issues, the C-Max has a far greater % of design complaints than the industry average of 2/3. If that is the case, perhaps most of the "design" complaints are fixed in 3.5.1 and other TSBs (or perhaps will be in later software updates). For example, I did respond to a survey a few months ago and reported the clock resetting as a problem. Since 3.5.1 was installed in late May, I have not had the clock issue.

From the article:

...The C-Max had 222 manufacturing flubs or design flaws per 100 vehicles in the survey, nearly twice the industry average of 113 [in the first 90 days of ownership]....

J.D. Power says two-thirds of the reported problems in the Initial Quality Study are related to bad design, instead of factory goofs. A manufacturing mistake can usually be fixed, but design problems are much harder to quickly remedy.

But Ford has been trying to act on complaints. On Monday, Ford said it is going to put old-fashioned knobs on its MyFord Touch touch-screen infotainment system, as a way of making it easier to use.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Plus 3 Golfer

[plus 3 golfer]

Not just below average, not just in the bottom quartile, but out of the several hundred car models evaluated, last, dead last, the worst. And, according to J D Power, the problems are mostly non-fixable design flaws.

 

Enjoy your Electric Edsels. Do your fellowman a favor and warn 'em off.

 

PS I returned two C-POS. 

Where does JD powers say "that the problems are mostly non-fixable design flaws?"   If you are going to post, at least get your facts correct. There's a big difference between what you say which I bolded above and what is actually in the article which I quoted above.

 

As I said before if you think Ford was not fair with you and didn't resolve your issues satisfactorily, go see a lawyer.  How is complaining here solving your issues?

Edited June 20, 2013 by Plus 3 Golfer

[Adair]

Not just below average, not just in the bottom quartile, but out of the several hundred car models evaluated, last, dead last, the worst. And, according to J D Power, the problems are mostly non-fixable design flaws.

 

Enjoy your Electric Edsels. Do your fellowman a favor and warn 'em off.

 

PS I returned two C-POS. 

kbf1, you are not going to change the minds of the majority of people on this forum who love their C-MAXes, so please pedal your negativity somewhere else.

 

Yes, there are a few here who have had major issues...........there will always be that with any 1st generation car..........I should know, I drove an Opel GT from GM for 2 years, before there were Lemon Laws. The people here who have had problems, we support them, in whatever way we can, whatever their decision may be. We don't ridicule them for making their purchase or their decision. That's just petty, and reserved for people who obviously have another agenda.

 

So, kpf1, the bottom line here is, quit trying to stir up trouble. You will only find a united front against it.

[ford]

I had a first model year Cadillac CTS 2003 ($35000. list) --- what a hunk of junk !  I had two problems with it the day I drove it out of the dealership. After two shop visits,one problem was fixed. After six additional shop visits the second was never fixed. I have had many many other problems with the car.  I kept the Cadillac for ten years (68000 miles) then traded it in on my C Max.  I drove the C Max out of the dealership without any problems for the last 1500 miles. I'm way ahead of the Cadillac !  The C Max isn't as pretty, but it rides smoother, is quieter, cost less, has the same amount of room inside, and oh yea,  gets over twice the gas mileage (48.5 lifetime). 

[Adair]

Rock on, Ford!!! and Welcome, if we haven't already said that!

[Laurel]

When a negative report comes out it puts pressure on Ford to address issues asap--so for our fellow members with issues it may get quicker resolution.  I think Ford will step up to the plate.  I remain really pleased with my Tip.

[salsaguy]

ouch!! not a good thing for Ford right now when they are trying to get folks to ignore/forget the bogus low mpg issues. this will definitely hurt sales for CMax.yes i do hope it helps push them to stay focused on quality is number one. consumers expect so much more for alot less money these days so it's alot harder to please them.

they should have a follow on survey questions asking if the issues were resolved or not.we know some issues did take longer to fix and diagnose than others.sadly most consumers won't read blogs/forums like this to know there are a lot of satisfied buyers that love their car.these articles really carry a lot of weight, especially when they come from the big boys like Consumer Reports and JD Power.hope they have time to make some changes for the 2014 model.

[CassidyB]

The article mentions "design flaws". I'm curious as to what that means.. With the exception of drivetrain, the European Spec C-Max is just like ours. I haven't seen any negative articles related to the European C-Max.. Even with the few issues I've had, I wouldn't dissuade anyone fom buying one.. I just wish the car was a few inches wider. Great design for tall people, but not big butt people-

 

I hope Ford brings over the B-Max..

[darrelld]

So far the worst car I have ever owned was a Lexus (Toyota), one of many reasons I never considered a Prius. My Lexus had the engine torn down twice to replace defective camshafts and valve springs. Lexus issued numerous recalls from everything to leaking fuel pumps to defective brakes. They even issued a letter of apology. Lexus still made the JD Power top recommended brand that year.

 

 

 

[Mark426]

hummm.... I have no complaints about the build quality or have I had any mechanical issues.  Maybe I got lucky or maybe some of the complaints came with the build dates prior to mine (3/13).  Last week I spent almost an hour checking every single area of my Maxx trying to find some defect since I was going in to the Ford shop to have the rear bumper protector installed. Nothing found.

I will agree that Fords Mytouch is strangely designed, but is no worse than any other car companies (cant understand why they are ALL so bad).  However...I didn't buy it for the somewhat lame Mytouch system that I knew would be less than it should be.

[MikeB]

A couple thoughts:

 

Most carmakers have gotten very good at delivering new models without defects, so most people have high expectations. Ford clearly didn't do so well with the C-Max, but that's comparing them against decades of a constantly improving industry. So people may actually be quite happy with the C-Max, but other carmakers are doing even better. And given that this is a new model in the US, with new hybrid technology under the hood, we're willing to accept a few defects in exchange for getting something new and interesting.

 

I'll forgive Ford for a few glitches that were the consequence of a new assembly line and new employees, those are things like bolts not being tightened correctly and such, and it probably didn't take too long to revise their assembly process. But I count the battery failures and MFT glitches as 'design' problems, Ford simply didn't put the engineering time and money into those areas like they should have. Those are fixable, generally with software, but again Ford failed to have a fast and efficient delivery of software updates. And some of the MFT and MFM problems are downright embarrassing, no professional software development team should be making those mistakes.

 

On the bright side, as mentioned above, Ford is rightly going to be embarrassed by this, management will yell at some people and fire others, procedures will change, software subcontractors will be replaced, and we'll see a better product coming out next year.

 

I will say that my Energi has had no serious defects other than poor MFT and MFM design, and I'm quite happy with the key reason I bought the car: the PHEV drivetrain.

[z32k12]

Interesting discussion.  There was another article posted yesterday about car reviews and for the first time mechanical issues aren't driving down the reliability ratings...it's all about the infotainment systems.  I too want to hear if there are engineering issues with the structure of the car but this model has been in Europe for a few years so that would be a surprise.

 

We bought our CMAX in February and so far we are very pleased.  Averaging 42.3 mpg in California mix of city/highway...I check manually and the computer matches very closely to the actual numbers.  I have the issue with the lift gate requiring two kicks every now and then and one time the clock reset to a different time for some reason.  Other than that it's been great.  No rattles, squeaks, phone pairs every time...I'm very happy!

[zalusky]

What's interesting is that MFT is in many of their other vehicles so why does the CMAX get the big ding?

[nsteblay]

I've been happy with the quality of the car to date. My last new car a Honda CRV 2007 had to go back into the shop several times for transmission and seatbelt issues. All of these were known defects yet I don't see Honda ever show up on the list. The only issue with the CMax is the My Ford Touch system. I blame this more on Microsoft than Ford. They partnered with the wrong company. Regarding the MPG I am not driving in hyper mile mode by any stretch of the imagination and am getting 45+ mpg. In the dead of winter I'll get 35 mpg. I'll average about 40 mpg for the year which is acceptable for me.

 

You've got to wonder about these companies doing the assessments. Somebody should do an investigation of them. I'll bet they are not as objective as they tout.

[mdkoeck]

I had a number of issues that have all been rectified. my Ford dealership is absolutely outstanding. Now that all the initial problems have been rectified, including liftgate, I hope to see what the car is like in100,000 miles.

[roninsd]

Like Jus, I feel lucky that I haven't experienced any significant problems with fit/finish or performance (aside from the wonky clock resetting -- hopefully fixable with the Sync update).  I have never had buyer's remorse, or felt like I made a mistake in purchasing this great little car!