Any maintenance for C-MAX transmission?

[TopherTheME]

No drain plug and no dipstick, maybe we're trying to tell you something. ....

 

 

 

Yes they are. Why would you ever need to replace the fluid on an eCVT? There are no belts or brakes that typical AT's have. All the major components that produce particles and contaminants the C-Max trans doesn't have so why would you have to ever replace the fluid? The only reason is if the fluid breaks down over time and its properties change, such as viscosity and surface tension. If the fluid can maintain those properties for 150k miles (which synthetic polymer based lubricants can) then you should never need to replace it.

[Tomasz Karwowski]

I replaced transmission oil cooler in my c-max hybrid 2013 - how to check fluid level ?? On cold or hot engine?? Only turn off a plug and check ?? I do not have Motorcraft MArcon LV in Poland . I have only :

 

 

RAVENOL ATF F-LV Fluid

with specification :

• FORD XT-10-QLVC, XT-10-QLVD
• FORD Mercon LV,
• Ford WSS-M2C-938A,
• Motorcraft XT-10 DLV,
• ?Motorcraft XT-10-QLV?

Can I mix it?? And how ?? By this plug??

 

Thanks for help = Ford Auto Poland do not have any service manual for cars from US and they afraid to touch it.  

Edited August 6, 2014 by Tomasz Karwowski

[plus 3 golfer]

I replaced transmission oil cooler in my c-max hybrid 2013 - how to check fluid level ?? On cold or hot engine?? Only turn off a plug and check ?? I do not have Motorcraft MArcon LV in Poland . I have only :

 

 

RAVENOL ATF F-LV Fluid

with specification :

• FORD XT-10-QLVC, XT-10-QLVD
• FORD Mercon LV,
• Ford WSS-M2C-938A,
• Motorcraft XT-10 DLV,
• ?Motorcraft XT-10-QLV?

Can I mix it?? And how ?? By this plug??

 

Thanks for help = Ford Auto Poland do not have any service manual for cars from US and they afraid to touch it.  

Welcome Thomaz  :)

 

This is the spec. for the transmission fluid: WSS-M2C938-A MERCON® LV.  So, it looks like the RAVENOL ATF F-LV Fluid is okay to use.

 

Here's the drain and fill plug locations.  The check plug location was shown in an earlier post in this thread.  Also, see my post here on temperature and other instructions.

 

[Tomasz Karwowski]

Thanks for this pictures. They are very helpful. 

 

Everything i should do is: 

 

1. Run engine 1 min (run and drive or only ready too drive? )

2. Turn off and wait 5 min 

3. Check the level and fill by this plug ( i don't want to fill by fill plug because i don't know how much I must too add - I don't know what is the capacity of transmission oil cooler - 0.2-0.6 L ??) 

4. run engine 1 min

5. turn off and wait 5 min

6. check the level again and fill if needed ??

 

I know - i have many questions but I have never a car with eCVT transmission.  

[plus 3 golfer]

Typically what I've done on my other cars (like VWs) when changing transmission fluid / checking level with no dipstick is to do the service after the car has been off for a while and when the ambient temperature is above the specified check level temperature which in this case is 20C.  Then, I add fluid to overfill slightly via the fill plug.  So, if you believe that you lost up to 0.6 L, I'd add 3/4 L via the top fill plug. Then, run the engine for one minute.  The transmission pump only runs when the engine is running.   This will ensure that fluid has circulated through the cooler and it should be full.  You do not have to drive the car. Then, turn off and wait 5 minutes.  Remove the check level plug and excess fluid should drain out.  If no fluid drains out, you'll have to add more fluid - that's why I like to add excess fluid and not have to repeat the process because I didn't add enough initially.  

 

If you don't want to use the top fill plug when filling, then a funnel like the one below makes sense for filling via the check plug (but also will likely make top filling easy). You can suspend the funnel above the check plug from the hood with a line to the check plug.  Insert the end of the line in the fill plug and open the valve on the funnel allowing fluid to fill the transmission to the until fluid drains out.  The problem is that you can't overfill.  So, once you start the engine and run for one minute, you might have to repeat the process several times via the check plug to ensure the oil cooler is full. 

 

Edited August 6, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[RobMax]

Just to confirm what someone else said earlier, Ford recommends transmission fluid change at 150,000, according to page 423 of the 2014 owners manual. That being said, does anyone know who makes the CVT in these cars? I would assume it's still Aisin, the Japanese company that made the CVT in my FEH, but that transmission apparently had no fluid change needed, according to both the owner AND service manuals I read. If still Aisin, I wonder why the difference in maintenance...

 

EDIT: And.... answered my own question. Funny I searched for answers on this before I bought my car and don't remember seeing this article: 

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-technology/ford-says-homegrown-cvt-key-speed-fuel-economy-new-hybrids

Edited August 20, 2014 by RobMax

[vmmvmmm]

I think anyone wanting to get into the guts of their car and figure it out/work on it is cool, and more power to you.  I, however, would not waste the time and money changing the transmission fluid in this case.  CVT's are much different than traditional transmissions, and manufacturing tolerances are tighter than ever.  If you do it as a hobby, great.  If you're doing it to save your transmission, it's probably not necessary.

[Tomasz Karwowski]

I've added transmission oil - 5l few weeks ago.

Unfortunately, I was drive without oil (1500km) (there was some oil in converter - but I do not know how much.

 

How can I check the transmission now?? There is no problems whit car and gear changes (800km whit oil). Fuel economy is OK - 5.3-7l/100km (43-33 MPG).

47-43mpg - highway, 37-33mpg on short distance (1-2miles) at cold engine.

[plus 3 golfer]

I've added transmission oil - 5l few weeks ago.

Unfortunately, I was drive without oil (1500km) (there was some oil in converter - but I do not know how much.

 

How can I check the transmission now?? There is no problems whit car and gear changes (800km whit oil). Fuel economy is OK - 5.3-7l/100km (43-33 MPG).

47-43mpg - highway, 37-33mpg on short distance (1-2miles) at cold engine.

It appears that the dry fill capacity of the transmission is 5.4 L. The only way to check that the transmission has the correct level is by the check plug.  If you added 5 L initially from the check plug (your post 29 procedure) and you couldn't add anymore fluid at step 6 you are likely at the proper level.  But as I said before, The best way is to add more fluid from the top plug than is needed (for example 6 L) and then at step 3 let the excess fluid drain out from the check plug.  In this way you know the transmission has the right amount of fluid.  I also doubt that even if the transmission is a few 100 ml low it will likely not matter given the transmission holds 5.4 L of fluid and you added 5 L to the transmission that probably had some fluid in it to begin with.

[Tomasz Karwowski]

I check the level and it is correct. I hope that my transmission will work properly after driving without oil. Wait-and-see.

[rgrenov8]

Anyone know if there are any differences between the hybrid and the energi transmissions?

[ptjones]

Anyone know if there are any differences between the hybrid and the energi transmissions?

There doesn't seem to be any difference other than maybe gear ratio.  We are not sure on that.  Change fluid at 150K miles. :)

 

Paul

[GSMacLean]

Yes they are. Why would you ever need to replace the fluid on an eCVT? There are no belts or brakes that typical AT's have. All the major components that produce particles and contaminants the C-Max trans doesn't have so why would you have to ever replace the fluid? The only reason is if the fluid breaks down over time and its properties change, such as viscosity and surface tension. If the fluid can maintain those properties for 150k miles (which synthetic polymer based lubricants can) then you should never need to replace it.

 

Why? Simplified, the lubricity of the gear oil comes from the hydrocarbon and added polymer molecular chains. These molecular chains are broken up over time simply by being repeatedly crushed between gear teeth - like the many gear teeth present in a planetary transmission. This reduces lubricity and allows wear.

[fbov]

Why? Simplified, the lubricity of the gear oil comes from the hydrocarbon and added polymer molecular chains. These molecular chains are broken up over time simply by being repeatedly crushed between gear teeth - like the many gear teeth present in a planetary transmission. This reduces lubricity and allows wear.

Bunk.

 

This is the result of "classical" thinking, a method that led us to the Earth-centered universe, among other things. It seems reasonable that if a hammer can break a stone, a gear can break an oil molecule. The statement above was not spoken by an organic chemist. The flag is the "crushing between gear teeth." An organic chemist would know better on two fronts, size and strength.

 

Metals are held together by chemical bonds. So are oil molecules. The chemical bonds are far stronger than the mechanical stresses imposed in a properly designed gear train. This is not cutting edge stuff; gears are very well known, and profiles designed to maintain contact area so film strength of the lubricant isn't compromised.

 

It's a film of oil that lubricates a gear, a layer many molecules thick. Unlike the metal lattice in the gear, the oil molecules are like little strings that refuse to tangle with one another. They are long compared with the metal finish, but much smaller than the metal's surface finish in cross section. When you get metal-on-metal contact, the oil isn't in the way, it's hiding in the surface texture, in very small groups now that the film has been broken.

 

A little research yields the real reasons oils degrade - chemical breakdown due to high temperatures, oxidation, or, ironically, entrained air (micro-dieseling I hadn't heard of).

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/475/oil-breakdown

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/989/fluid-degradation-causes

 

 Have fun,

Frank

[bluefever]

has anyone possibly taken any pictures of where the drain, fill and check plugs are on the c-max?

[Tomasz Karwowski]

 

Hello

Edited October 3, 2017 by Tomasz Karwowski

[ptjones]

has anyone possibly taken any pictures of where the drain, fill and check plugs are on the c-max?

Trans fluid doesn't need to be changed until 150k mi., you can monitor trans fluid temp with ScanGaugeII if you think you have a problem.

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

Welcome Thomaz  :)

 

This is the spec. for the transmission fluid: WSS-M2C938-A MERCON® LV.  So, it looks like the RAVENOL ATF F-LV Fluid is okay to use.

 

Here's the drain and fill plug locations.  The check plug location was shown in an earlier post in this thread.  Also, see my post here on temperature and other instructions.

 

I can't get to the image of fill/drain plug locations.  Any chance you could post it again?  I want to change the fluid which I can get at O'Reillys and save $100 to $150 over shop or dealer prices.

[jestevens]

I would use whatever fluid they officially spec, this transmission has electric motor windings in it, so some of the other brands may not be formulated for that?  I had to yell at the guy in a Toyota dealership once to use the WS ATF transmission fluid - they want to treat the hybrid just like any other car - in some cases that's okay, in some cases I'd rather not spend $3,000 on a new transmission just to save $45 in ATF fluid costs.

[SnowStorm]

I would use whatever fluid they officially spec, this transmission has electric motor windings in it, so some of the other brands may not be formulated for that?  I had to yell at the guy in a Toyota dealership once to use the WS ATF transmission fluid - they want to treat the hybrid just like any other car - in some cases that's okay, in some cases I'd rather not spend $3,000 on a new transmission just to save $45 in ATF fluid costs.

Agree.  I bought the Motorcraft MERCON LV as specified in the manual - $7.99/qt at O'Reillys.  Changing it would be $150-$160 at my tire dealer (they use Wynn's) or $190 at the dealer.  Would still like to know the fill plug location.  There was a document on the Fusion Energi forum but its now gone (along with Plus 3 Golfer's image in post #28 above).  Its time to change the air filter so I'll have a look around when doing that.  I might have to rig up a hose to fill through the check plug hole. 

[cr08]

I don't have any immediate info on hand but may dig a little deeper after work. But some tidbits that may help track it down:

 

• Check the transmission teardowns on the Weber Auto Youtube channel. The fill/drain/check plugs most likely have been mentioned and indicated.
• Any searches, make sure to use 'HF-35' which is the model of the hybrid transmission used in the C-Max and Fusion hybrid/Energi's from 2013-2017.
• Another Youtube channel, fordtechmakuloco, recently covered transmission fluid drain/fill on the earlier 2005-2008 Escape hybrids which are not the same transmission but are very similar. Those were Aisin built while the 2013+ years are Ford built but have VERY close designs. May provide some breadcrumbs on where to look that may be of assistance.

Edited April 25, 2018 by cr08

[SnowStorm]

Changed transmission fluid today - easier than engine oil and filter.  Saved $140 over dealer and no more time spent.  You can access the check plug up through the left wheel well by pulling the plastic shield forward.  14mm plug (don't loose the thin washer).  My fluid was a bit low, nothing came out and a cotton bud had to be tipped down somewhat to contact the fluid.  The drain plug came out easily too with a normal allen wrench.  The fluid was rather black.  I rigged a funnel and tubing to fill through the check hole.  1/4" OD tubing will go in.  It takes a while to fill with several feet of tubing that small.  It would be better to use a 1/4" ID hose and short piece of tubing at the end.  I wedged some foam between the tubing and that goofy bolt just below the hole so the tubing would be sloped down into the transmission.    Put in 5 qt, screwed in plug temporarily, ran engine for 1 minute, waited 5, removed plug and put in about another 0.3 qt.  I measured what drained out and the bucket showed about 4.6 qt.

 

Also changed air filter and looked for the "official" fill plug.  I'm not sure I found it but there was as a stepped rubber/plastic cap (rather oily) back there that may have been it - too had to get to.  Filling through the check plug seems the way to go.

[homestead]

SnowStorm how many miles do you have on your car?

 Is there a filter for the transmission fluid?

Edited April 28, 2018 by homestead

[SnowStorm]

154k miles.  According to the Weber Auto Youtube video there is an internal filter - you can't get to it from outside.

[Oxidizer2k]

I'm still lost on where the top fill bolt is. Is there an updated picture? I'm in a 2013 fusion hybrid.