Battery dead

[Jus-A-CMax]

Have not gone thru the whole thread and not sure if this was brought up already - but it might be worth while tracking the build date of the effected vehicles, might be a pattern there with bad parts. Fingers crossed mine is fine, mine was built Oct 2012.

[Laurel]

Have not gone thru the whole thread and not sure if this was brought up already - but it might be worth while tracking the build date of the effected vehicles, might be a pattern there with bad parts. Fingers crossed mine is fine, mine was built Oct 2012.

Good idea to get people checking build dates and see if there is any correlation with the dead batteries.  I will knock on wood too and say ours was built November 8th and nary a problem thus far. 

[advsysal]

Just to add to the common thread.. Our C-Max SE was purchased in mid October. I'm in the NorthEast, it is cold, but the car is garaged. I have had many battery failures, but only in the mornings after an overnight in the garage. After jumping it a few times and finding nothing wrong, the dealer replaced the battery with a brand new one, but that didn't help. The dealership has now kept the car for as about as much time as we have had it. I believe we are reaching lemon law territory, and we should find out how things will proceed tomorrow with the service manager.

 

The dealership has been very good to work with, though it obviously is frustrating to have to spend the time on this.

[emccabe]

The USB ports in my C-Max are always powered. Anything plugged into them that draws power when the vehicle is off can run down the battery.

[salman]

My car's build date was October 4, 2012.

 

Advsysal - please keep us posted on what happens, and please post as much detail about your experience as you can.

 

emccabe - It is a long thread to read through. Most of the dead 12 volt cases have not had extra accessories plugged in. That's always been the first variable to check and eliminate. 

[PWBarrett]

The USB ports in my C-Max are always powered. Anything plugged into them that draws power when the vehicle is off can run down the battery.

I've watched a USB-powered LED fade all the way out when plugged into the console, so I know they can power down.

It all depends on the sequence of events, including opening and closing the doors.

But even at that, those USB ports probably only supply 500ma of current.  A car battery should have enough current capacity to run that for weeks.

[RachelnLa]

Pw! Lol at your aviator. Lololol

[PWBarrett]

(If you can see it, here's the one I wanted to use: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/254-sp-anim/ )

[andrewwx]

Hi All:

 

I am a little disappointed today. I had hoped that Ford was going to make me happy today and resolve my issue. But I talked to the service manager and they are just going to try to fix it. I guess they know that if they fail this time the lemon law kicks in. If I put my optimist hat on - maybe this will lead the Ford engineering team down a new path that will fix the problem.

 

The service manager noticed two things with my Cmax. One is that when he put the battery analyzer on the terminals the running lights would pop on. Two: Ford central is being very quite about this problem. They act like it is only my car, despite the fact that he told them when he searches the internet he finds many stories like all of ours.

 

I will keep everyone informed.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

[Mike51]

Hi All:

 

I am a little disappointed today. I had hoped that Ford was going to make me happy today and resolve my issue. But I talked to the service manager and they are just going to try to fix it. I guess they know that if they fail this time the lemon law kicks in. If I put my optimist hat on - maybe this will lead the Ford engineering team down a new path that will fix the problem.

 

The service manager noticed two things with my Cmax. One is that when he put the battery analyzer on the terminals the running lights would pop on. Two: Ford central is being very quite about this problem. They act like it is only my car, despite the fact that he told them when he searches the internet he finds many stories like all of ours.

 

I will keep everyone informed.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

What bothers me the most, Andrew, is not that Ford has this problem with our cars-- heck, it's a complicated car, a lot can go wrong. What bothers me is the secrecy and deceit. Man-up Ford! We don't expect perfection, but we won't tolerate deceit!

[mbedit]

Mike51, 

 

Exactly. If you read the warranty they even say they can't get it perfect all the time. The purpose of the warranty is allow a mechanism to fix issues. Andrew, one thing to consider, is that the Lemon laws typically allow the manufacturer to charge you for any milage driven, even for an exchange, so the more miles you have on it, the better off you'll be if they can just fix the problem. 

 

Make sure to read up on the law and get everything ready, and use it (if you can) to entice the dealer / Ford to fix your problem quickly. 

 

I've been in my replacement a week now, and so far its behaving flawless, and in fact the MPG the replacement has been reporting is much better than I ever got from my 1st one. Drive home from work reported 42 MPG, and short trip to the store and back reported 56 MPG. 

 

I'm still gun shy though, and bought one of those emergency jumper starters, which I hope I only have to ever use for legitimate reasons!

[Laurel]

Mbedit when I saw your post under this thread, I thought "oh no, his new car has a dead battery".  Glad all is going well with your C-Max!

[mbedit]

Thanks Laurel! I'm still poking my head in to see / share info with people having problems, as I would like to see Ford figure it out. I think they really do have a winner with the C-Max, if they can maintain the quality. 

[flatbat]

First posting:  My C-MAX SE was bought in December and worked fine (though with disappointing milage) until mid january when i first encountered the dead 12V system issue.  Naturally i assumed i left something on, had it jumped, and went on my way.  But, like for everybody else here, it happened again (three times in my case).  After the second time, I took it to the dealer after jumping and they did a "deep battery reconditioning".  Third time they exchanged the battery.  At that point i was telling them about the other cases i heard about here but was ignored.  After the forth breakdown i took it back in for the third time and again told them about other cases.  I also wrote official notifications to FORD and the consumer protection agency to inform them of my problems, which in MD is a required step to invoke the lemon law.  Initially the dealer said they spoke to FORD and were hearing that in most cases this problem was the result of user error, which is laughable.  They were quite dismissive.  I called the FORD customer relationship center to tell them of my problem and inform them that the official letter was in the mail, but never heard back from them.  However, a day later, the dealership called back, apologized, and now said that FORD was working on the car remotely, that there were indeed a number of cars with the problem, and that once they figured out what was wrong that there might well be a recall issued.  They cited a software bug as a likely culprit.  That was two days ago and the car is still in the shop.  

 

These things can happen with a complicated machine like the C-MAX, but of course that does not change the fact that this 2 month old car has now spent more time in the shop then my wife's 14 year old honda over its life span...

[amccs]

Another to add to the list.  I got my C-MAX SE at the end of December and got the first dead battery last week.  I had Roadside Assistance come to jump it, took it to the dealership and they put in a new battery, but 5 days later, it was dead again.  I had it jumped again and drove it back to the dealership.  They kept it overnight to run tests on it, but found nothing wrong so I drive it back home yesterday.  This morning, the battery was dead again. I don't have time to go back to the dealership today, but it seems likely it's going to happen again so next time, I'll bring it back in.  I'm glad I came across this thread so I know I'm not the only one with this problem! 

[salman]

 However, a day later, the dealership called back, apologized, and now said that FORD was working on the car remotely, that there were indeed a number of cars with the problem, and that once they figured out what was wrong that there might well be a recall issued.  They cited a software bug as a likely culprit.  That was two days ago and the car is still in the shop.  

 

Flatbat

 

Please try to get more information from your dealer about what they and Ford are trying to do and please share it with us. It would be enormously helpful to know from your dealer how Ford is trying to work on the car remotely and why they think it is a software glitch. With that information in hand we all could ask our dealers to do the same with our cars (i.e., have Ford check it out remotely). (a thought added later: by working on it remotely might the service manage have meant only that he had contacted Ford engineers through the service hot line?)

 

There is always the chance, too, that the dealer won't be able to tell you how Ford is working on it remotely because they are not doing that - it might not be possible to do it. I am not claiming that is the case, only saying that your experience of multiple 12 volt failures and multiple evasive responses by Ford gives you the moral right to ask and be told what the dealer and Ford are doing try to diagnose your car.

 

Information is critical for just the reasons you explained. When car owners do not have information in our hands, Ford will first claim owner error and second it will claim that each case is isolated.

 

All that nonsense gets cut off when we tell Ford that we can identify specific cases located at specific dealerships. Not only does it cut off the evasive nonsense, but it also tells Ford that there is a network of people talking in public about the problem, and that has got to make them worry about the prospect of bad publicity for the car if they don't start to take the problem seriously.

Edited February 14, 2013 by salman

[Laurel]

I think this forum is really valuable.  Today when we were into our dealership to order our missing mechanical keys for our FOB's, I mentioned all the dead battery issues and the "stop safely now" situations and I got a big blank stare from the salesman.  Something tells me that information about these issues isn't being freely communicated.  So we need to band to together and make sure that Ford is informed of our issues.

[plus 3 golfer]

I think this forum is really valuable.  Today when we were into our dealership to order our missing mechanical keys for our FOB's, I mentioned all the dead battery issues and the "stop safely now" situations and I got a big blank stare from the salesman.  Something tells me that information about these issues isn't being freely communicated.  So we need to band to together and make sure that Ford is informed of our issues.

Don't know about Canada but there are about 3000 US Ford only dealerships and likely less than 20,000 C-Max hybrids sold so far in the US.  Now how many have had battery issues - 1%, 2% or even 5%.  So, let's make an assumption that 1000 C-Max owners (5%) have had battery issues.  So, it very likely that less than 1 in 3 dealers have had a customer with a battery failure.  So, I wouldn't expect the salesman (and likely most service departments) to know anything about these battery failures.  

 

I also assume Ford like other companies reviews warranty data and is aware of the rate of battery failures.  I would not expect Ford to issue a technical bulletin or other memos to the dealers until they have a "fix" or the number of failures becomes significant. 

 

I would also suggest that if one has had the "stop safely now" message, battery failures, or any other issues where they feel their safety was in jeopardy to file a complaint with the NHTSA.

[mbedit]

"A total of 10,935 C-Max Hybrids were sold during 2012" So 20,000 is probably an aggressive estimate. Also, the number of Ford dealers in the US, dealers that would sell the C-Max looks to be closer to 1500 . The total number of dealers for all Ford owned bands is about 3000. So, while your point is taken, if 1000 people have had issues, with 1500 dealers, 2 in 3 dealers should have come across the problem, so I would think there might start to be some chatter...

[plus 3 golfer]

"A total of 10,935 C-Max Hybrids were sold during 2012" So 20,000 is probably an aggressive estimate. Also, the number of Ford dealers in the US, dealers that would sell the C-Max looks to be closer to 1500 . The total number of dealers for all Ford owned bands is about 3000. So, while your point is taken, if 1000 people have had issues, with 1500 dealers, 2 in 3 dealers should have come across the problem, so I would think there might start to be some chatter...

You got the point. So, 5% of 10,000 is 500 which is still 1in 3 dealers that sell the hybrid. This issue is certainly annoying but it doesn't appear to be epidemic at least as of now.

[erwhitham]

All these numbers and percentages are interesting but just suppositions. Anyone out there with connections to Ford? Monitors on this site? I've been lucky but sympathize with all of you who've experienced battery issues.

[Laurel]

I also assume Ford like other companies reviews warranty data and is aware of the rate of battery failures.  I would not expect Ford to issue a technical bulletin or other memos to the dealers until they have a "fix" or the number of failures becomes significant. 

 

I would also suggest that if one has had the "stop safely now" message, battery failures, or any other issues where they feel their safety was in jeopardy to file a complaint with the NHTSA.

I have high expectations on any service I buy.  I would expect the dealership to be media savy and to be a step ahead of their customers by getting and staying informed.  When they don't keep up with what the public is saying about their products, I think this is an example of a poor dealership.  When we bought, we had more information about the C-Max than the dealership.  Today when we attempted to chat about mileage, battery issues etc, they were disinterested.  It was very obvious that they did not know about any mileage issues with the C-Max  I would expect a good manager of a dealership to have staff meetings to discuss trends, media stories, and have seminars for employees about each of their products.  Heaven knows when you walk in you see half a dozen salesmen standing around looking bored.  A good manager would assign salesman to various models to gain expertise in that car's characteristics.  A good manager motivates staff to become informed.  Ford products have forums going on all their models and a manager should be assigning staff to keep tabs on these forums.  I left today thinking that business was poor, and I would guess the apathy and waiting to be spoon fed via bulletins is half the problem. I want a keen motivated knowledgeable dealership---not a thumb up their butts dealership.  I want the salesperson who can respond "yes, I have read about the battery failures, but we have not experienced that here and in my opinion this is an anomaly".  Same as I want an ER nurse to say "chew this aspirin" when I clutch my chest and say I have chest pain.  Be on top of what is happening in your area of expertise and what the fix might be.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Laurel

[plus 3 golfer]

I have high expectations on any service I buy.  I would expect the dealership to be media savy and to be a step ahead of their customers by getting and staying informed.  When they don't keep up with what the public is saying about their products, I think this is an example of a poor dealership.  When we bought, we had more information about the C-Max than the dealership.  Today when we attempted to chat about mileage, battery issues etc, they were disinterested.  It was very obvious that they did not know about any mileage issues with the C-Max  I would expect a good manager of a dealership to have staff meetings to discuss trends, media stories, and have seminars for employees about each of their products.  Heaven knows when you walk in you see half a dozen salesmen standing around looking bored.  A good manager would assign salesman to various models to gain expertise in that car's characteristics.  A good manager motivates staff to become informed.  Ford products have forums going on all their models and a manager should be assigning staff to keep tabs on these forums.  I left today thinking that business was poor, and I would guess the apathy and waiting to be spoon fed via bulletins is half the problem. I want a keen motivated knowledgeable dealership---not a thumb up their butts dealership.  I want the salesperson who can respond "yes, I have read about the battery failures, but we have not experienced that here and in my opinion this is an anomaly".  Same as I want an ER nurse to say "chew this aspirin" when I clutch my chest and say I have chest pain.  Be on top of what is happening in your area of expertise and what the fix might be.

Unfortunately, your expectations aren't the norm in the auto world. This is not the medical field where technical expertise is a must. Quite the contrary, a good sales manager does not want his sales force to delve into technical issues with customers about the products they are selling.

[PTartarilla]

I also am having the dead battery issue. The vehicle is at the dealership for three days and they are still at a loss of what is causing this issue.

[Laurel]

Unfortunately, your expectations aren't the norm in the auto world. This is not the medical field where technical expertise is a must. Quite the contrary, a good sales manager does not want his sales force to delve into technical issues with customers about the products they are selling.

Oh psshaw!  Dumbing down is a plague in our society.  I do appreciate learning your perspective as mine may not be in sync with the majority.