Trying to decide

[Sammy Vankrevelen]

Hi, I am a special education teacher from Minnesota, and after my first year teaching I am looking for a new reliable car to take to work. I drive 50 minutes to get to work driving from the suburbs to St. Paul. I am trying to decide between the C-Max Hybrid and the Ford Escape with 4 wheel drive and a 2.0 ego boost engine. I was also thinking about a subaru crosstrek for a while. Winters here are really bad, and I leave to go to school before school cancelations are announced. I have test driven all three and like how the c-max drives the best, but the escape seems safer since it is larger. I want a vehicle that is reliable in the snow and unplowed roads near my school, but I love the idea of a hybrid. My dad is used to working on Fords, but is worried he will not be able to work on this one. Also worried about after the Warrenty is up the transmission and battery going out at the same time and being really expensive. I want a reliable car that can make it in the winter. How does the c-max do in snow, and how many people experience problems with their car? Thanks so much for any advice. I'm glad I found this forum.

[Kelleytoons]

ego boost engine

 

I can't comment on the C-Max in the snow (I don't do snow anymore which is why I'm in Florida) but I will say that I get a definite ego boost out of the C-Max (although I doubt that's what you meant to type).

[Jus-A-CMax]

Welcome to our wee forum :)

 

We have a lot of drivers in the north east, and there are threads of the CMax in the snow. I'll be blunt with you - the CMax hybrid is more a city car, its never designed to handle unplowed snow. Whilst I have taken many trips to Mammoth Mountain where it does snow and I am there with my family for some nice skiing & snowboarding - our CMax handles superbly. I have no issues with the traction control or handling in the snow, somestimes unplowed but Caltrans does a damn fine job usually.

 

Also, you have to know that ANY hybrid will have poor MPG in the snow unless you specifically kit it out with grill covers or block heaters or garage your car. Hybrids were originally designed for the "warmer" cities such as Los Angeles and the MPG numbers will be down when its snows such as Chicago, MI etc. Check out the threads and posts here by JohninOhio, Adair, catsailor. I think we even had an owner in AK, Don.

 

In regards to reliability, I have nearly 34K on my odo and I owned it since Dec 2012, I have only 1 minor issue with a GPS module replacement but NOTHING since then.

 

There are a few posters here with above 50K in miles and they have reported little to zero problems. There are some concerns & pain with some early 2012 & 2013 CMaxs having dead battery issues. We have no idea what the percentages are of the CMax population has these issues but its resulted in a some buy backs as reported by some posters here. I do not have this issue and my car was built in October 2012, its FLAWLESS while some posters here are in irate.

 

I think the feeling is that the SE models have more chances of a dead battery, most SELs do not. Now, you may ask what is Ford doing about it - they are aware of these issues and are on it. Some posters reported some resolution while others continue to report the same issue. Nonetheless, Ford was also kind enough to send a company representative here on this forum for those who have any issues with their CMax...the latest one is Crystal. Some posters here have used them to get additional attention to their issues if the dealers are not of any help - unfortunately, not all dealers are "up to Par" as we found out - so I suggest finding a reputable Ford dealer who know what they are doing and have been in the industry for sometime - is - imho, just as important as the price.

 

So after all that spiel...do your reading here, feel free to post any questions and posters will chime in with their experience & input.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[scottwood2]

Welcome to our wee forum :)

 

We have a lot of drivers in the north east, and there are threads of the CMax in the snow. I'll be blunt with you - the CMax hybrid is more a city car, its never designed to handle unplowed snow. Whilst I have taken many trips to Mammoth Mountain where it does snow and I am there with my family for some nice skiing & snowboarding - our CMax handles superbly. I have no issues with the traction control or handling in the snow, somestimes unplowed but Caltrans does a damn fine job usually.

 

Also, you have to know that ANY hybrid will have poor MPG in the snow unless you specifically kit it out with grill covers or block heaters or garage your car. Hybrids were originally designed for the "warmer" cities such as Los Angeles and the MPG numbers will be down when its snows such as Chicago, MI etc. Check out the threads and posts here by JohninOhio, Adair, catsailor. I think we even had an owner in AK, Don.

 

In regards to reliability, I have nearly 34K on my odo and I owned it since Dec 2012, I have only 1 minor issue with a GPS module replacement but NOTHING since then.

 

There are a few posters here with above 50K in miles and they have reported little to zero problems. There are some concerns & pain with some early 2012 & 2013 CMaxs having dead battery issues. We have no idea what the percentages are of the CMax population has these issues but its resulted in a some buy backs as reported by some posters here. I do not have this issue and my car was built in October 2012, its FLAWLESS while some posters here are in irate.

 

I think the feeling is that the SE models have more chances of a dead battery, most SELs do not. Now, you may ask what is Ford doing about it - they are aware of these issues and are on it. Some posters reported some resolution while others continue to report the same issue. Nonetheless, Ford was also kind enough to send a company representative here on this forum for those who have any issues with their CMax...the latest one is Crystal. Some posters here have used them to get additional attention to their issues if the dealers are not of any help - unfortunately, not all dealers are "up to Par" as we found out - so I suggest finding a reputable Ford dealer who know what they are doing and have been in the industry for sometime - is - imho, just as important as the price.

 

So after all that spiel...do your reading here, feel free to post any questions and posters will chime in with their experience & input.

Nice post but I am a little unsure about your statement saying the C-Max is not designed for snow?  I would agree that you will get better FE in warm weather and city driving but I would think this car is designed to work in all kinds of weather.  Sure a 4 wheel drive Escape would be better in the snow but it's FE will also be lower driving in snow.  I do not own a C-max yet but I live in Detroit I don't think this car will have any issues with the snow.  It is a heavy car and the torque of the electric motor would be perfect for snow.  I have many times started out in higher gears just so I could get more torque and less spin.  I see a lot of Prius's here too that would be similar, in fact my Sister has a Prius up north in Michigan and loves it.  I have drove my xB through all kinds of snow and 95% of the time I  have never had an issue with getting through to make it to work. I do think the winters in the twin cities are worst than here so that is an additional factor there.  4 wheel drive is better in the snow for sure but it does come at a cost.  You have to find what works for you.  Many people here have 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive but many do not.  I remember going to Montreal some time ago and I was surprised how many small front wheel drive cars were there are on the hilly snowy roads there.  The cost of fuel is high there so smaller, high FE, cars are everywhere.  

 

Again I don't own this car yet but I hope to be a C-Max owner soon.  I did look at the Escape and I like it too.  i see them everywhere here.  For me the high FE and the fun of driving the C-Max outweighs the few months of snow we get here. To me the complexity of having 4 wheel drive, extra cost and reduced MPG all year for having the extra weight does not justify owning one (vs 2 wheel drive).  Another way to look at it, the worst FE with the C-Max during winter driving will still be better than the best FE in an Escape. But again a 4 wheel drive will be a better snow driving machine.   

 

Good luck on your decision.   

[drdiesel1]

IMO.... With the foul weather you have in the winter time, I would recommend the Escape.

[hybridbear]

Hi, I am a special education teacher from Minnesota, and after my first year teaching I am looking for a new reliable car to take to work. I drive 50 minutes to get to work driving from the suburbs to St. Paul. I am trying to decide between the C-Max Hybrid and the Ford Escape with 4 wheel drive and a 2.0 ego boost engine. I was also thinking about a subaru crosstrek for a while. Winters here are really bad, and I leave to go to school before school cancelations are announced. I have test driven all three and like how the c-max drives the best, but the escape seems safer since it is larger. I want a vehicle that is reliable in the snow and unplowed roads near my school, but I love the idea of a hybrid. My dad is used to working on Fords, but is worried he will not be able to work on this one. Also worried about after the Warrenty is up the transmission and battery going out at the same time and being really expensive. I want a reliable car that can make it in the winter. How does the c-max do in snow, and how many people experience problems with their car? Thanks so much for any advice. I'm glad I found this forum.

We've had no issues with our Fusion Hybrid in the snow in Minneapolis and my parents have no issues with their C-Max Energi. I've driven their C-Max in the snow and it's very solid, the same is true of our Fusion Hybrid. If you're concerned about snow traction then I'd recommend getting the C-Max and using the gas savings versus the Escape to buy snow tires.

 Remember that AWD doesn't help you stop, it only helps you accelerate. A C-Max with snow tires would stop better than an AWD Escape with regular tires and it would probably be as good or better at acceleration & turning in the snow as well.

[TheXym]

I'm in northeast PA, close to the NY border. The mileage took a big hit in the winter, due to the lack of engine warm up time, and the significant decrease in longer trips. My work commute is too short to really get it warmed up. (Though grill covers will help). We had our worst winter this past year (14 snow days where I teach).

 

I can say the Cmax is pretty darn good in the snow as long as it isn't too deep that your ground clearance is insufficient. The traction control was great. I went out a couple times to test the car to prepare myself in case of a bad situation and I couldn't get it to fishtail when I tried.

 

In terms of climbing, I think the higher torque of the EV mode helps. My older vehicles, I needed some momentum to make the turn up my hill if it was icy and untreated, thr Cmax was no problems. I'm just over 23K miles and no problems other than the standard Ford recalls. It's a 2013 SE with the winter package and the power lift and ambient lights and backup sensors.

Edited August 17, 2014 by TheXym

[Laurel]

Sammy I would say no to the C-Max in a very snowy region.  The car is too low and it is very easy to get wedged on the snow.  I find the the C-Max too low to go visit friends when I have to go off the main roads to their ranch. i.e. big ruts and you will be scraping bottom, and we can't visit in the winter with the C-Max due to drifting snow that we can't get through. It does drive well on plowed roads and has good traction--it is just not so good if the road isn't plowed well or has drifted.  However for city roads it is great.  I am a long time fan of the Subaru for getting around in the snow.

[TheXym]

Great point about the non-paved roads, Laurel. I agree with the deep snow, hence my point about the clearance. If it's too deep I stay home, but I'm right in town and stay off the unpaved roads normally. The "ranch" terrain is much different than the in town and main roads to the bigger cities.

 

OP, you mentioned you go from the suburbs to the city. How is the winter road maintenance?

[kostby]

You can make a detailed spec comparison of the C-MAX and the Escape for yourself at ford.com

This example is C-MAX SE and SEL vs Escape AWD SE:

http://www.ford.com/cars/cmax/compare/details?trim=361346&c=361344&c=358959#

[Jus-A-CMax]

Nice post but I am a little unsure about your statement saying the C-Max is not designed for snow?  I would agree that you will get better FE in warm weather and city driving but I would think this car is designed to work in all kinds of weather.  Sure a 4 wheel drive Escape would be better in the snow but it's FE will also be lower driving in snow.  I do not own a C-max yet but I live in Detroit I don't think this car will have any issues with the snow.  It is a heavy car and the torque of the electric motor would be perfect for snow.  I have many times started out in higher gears just so I could get more torque and less spin.  I see a lot of Prius's here too that would be similar, in fact my Sister has a Prius up north in Michigan and loves it.  I have drove my xB through all kinds of snow and 95% of the time I  have never had an issue with getting through to make it to work. I do think the winters in the twin cities are worst than here so that is an additional factor there.  4 wheel drive is better in the snow for sure but it does come at a cost.  You have to find what works for you.  Many people here have 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive but many do not.  I remember going to Montreal some time ago and I was surprised how many small front wheel drive cars were there are on the hilly snowy roads there.  The cost of fuel is high there so smaller, high FE, cars are everywhere. 

 

Here's where I see that its not designed for extreme weather like unplowered snow and I'll keep it simple. Check out the space between the tire and wheel well. It's way smaller than typical which makes it tough to put the cable chains on and take it off - and I have mid size hands and not Mr.Gorilla hands here. And I'm not even trying to get any real chains on and my cable chains are the low profile ones. To take it off, I need my wifeys smaller hands to fit in there. Now in the slush, freezing and crap that makes it even tougher to do the chains. Most SUVs have more clearance while hybrids has less to make the car more aero. I've seen my friends Prius and they have more room in the wheel well for their chain...so go figure Ford. Thats jus my take but I don't live in the snow, jus visit it for the major vacations...

[scottwood2]

Here's where I see that its not designed for extreme weather like unplowered snow and I'll keep it simple. Check out the space between the tire and wheel well. It's way smaller than typical which makes it tough to put the cable chains on and take it off - and I have mid size hands and not Mr.Gorilla hands here. And I'm not even trying to get any real chains on and my cable chains are the low profile ones. To take it off, I need my wifeys smaller hands to fit in there. Now in the slush, freezing and crap that makes it even tougher to do the chains. Most SUVs have more clearance while hybrids has less to make the car more aero. I've seen my friends Prius and they have more room in the wheel well for their chain...so go figure Ford. Thats jus my take but I don't live in the snow, jus visit it for the major vacations...

Good point.  I guess that different areas of the country are different in regards to snow.  We generally don't use tire chains here.  Now if I was in an area that required tire chains then I think I would also go the SUV route.  I am surprised to hear that people have a Prius for these conditions as well.  We are somewhat flat here in Michigan, at least the lower part of the state.  Just small hills.   

[scottwood2]

I'm in northeast PA, close to the NY border. The mileage took a big hit in the winter, due to the lack of engine warm up time, and the significant decrease in longer trips. My work commute is too short to really get it warmed up. (Though grill covers will help). We had our worst winter this past year (14 snow days where I teach).

 

I can say the Cmax is pretty darn good in the snow as long as it isn't too deep that your ground clearance is insufficient. The traction control was great. I went out a couple times to test the car to prepare myself in case of a bad situation and I couldn't get it to fishtail when I tried.

 

In terms of climbing, I think the higher torque of the EV mode helps. My older vehicles, I needed some momentum to make the turn up my hill if it was icy and untreated, thr Cmax was no problems. I'm just over 23K miles and no problems other than the standard Ford recalls. It's a 2013 SE with the winter package and the power lift and ambient lights and backup sensors.

Hi Xym

 

Just wondering what kind of FE did you get last winter?  I would think your winters are about the same as Detroit.  I drive about 8 miles one way to work.  How long does it take to heat up the ICE?  My car now takes about 1.5 miles before I get heat.  Is the C-max about the same?  Looking at buying but don'e have one yet.   Thx

[JAZ]

You won't get heat until the ICE reaches a certain temperature, but the heated seat option mitigates that waiting period nicely.

[nsteblay]

Hi Sammy,

 

I live in Minnesota (Twin Cities) and have a similar commute to your's.  I had been driving a Honda AWD CRV the past 4 years and switched to the C-Max the winter of 2012-2013.  I have found it more than adequate in the snow.  It is a very heavy car and the front wheel drive provides control in snowy situations.  I love the visibility in the car, auto windshield wipers, the heated seats and climate control.  I don't miss the CRV in the least.

 

I've been averaging just over 40 MPG a year.  In winter the average is 35 MPG, in summer about 45 MPG.  I believe my yearly average for 2014 will be closer to 41-42 MPG as I am getting 50 MPG so far this summer (see attached picture of my last tank)!  My Honda CRV averaged about 24 MPG for the year so I am saving some significant dollars.

 

 

You won't be displeased with the C-Max.  It does require adopting some driving techniques to get optimal mileage - MPG will be much lower in the winter.  This forum provides a community where you can get help on driving technique or any other C-Max topic.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Nick

[TopherTheME]

To be blunt, if you're concerned about snow don't get any of those cars, get a Subaru Forester. Yes, its very similar to the Crosstrek but the Forester is bigger and still gets great fuel economy and really its just a better value. But bottom line, the Forester is going to handle the snow better than any other car except maybe a Toyota 4Runner or Jeep Wrangler. Plus, it gets better fuel economy than the Escape as well.

 

However, Ford has done something very interesting with both the C-Max and the Escape, and that is they've included a limited slip differential and torque vectoring. These are features you used to only be able to get in higher end sports cars. In a nutshell, all this means is that the C-Max (and Escape) will handle better in the snow than your average 2WD car will but will never be as capable of a Subaru. Subaru just simply has the best and most advanced AWD system you can get without spending a fortune. Now with that said, I live in Michigan and experience similar snow fall and also drive quite a bit. To me, a C-Max with good snow tires is adaquate for driving in the snow and although I haven't owned it for a winter yet I'm not really concerned about it. I too almost bought a Subaru for the very reason you are considering one but figured that 1 or 2 days of bad snow out of the year isn't enough reason to justify not buying a hybrid.

[TheXym]

Hi Xym

 

Just wondering what kind of FE did you get last winter? I would think your winters are about the same as Detroit. I drive about 8 miles one way to work. How long does it take to heat up the ICE? My car now takes about 1.5 miles before I get heat. Is the C-max about the same? Looking at buying but don'e have one yet. Thx

The winter package has heated seats which helps tremendously as far as personal warmth goes. The 1-1.5 mile mark seems about right as far as getting the temp up for the EV to kick in, but grill covers should help with that.

 

My lifetime average dropped to about 37.8 after the winter, about 14000 total miles. It was at 42.1 before the winter hit. Your commute is long enough that the engine will warm up enough to get the EV to kick in for most of it, whereas mine I may get .2-.3 miles of EV out of the approx. 2 mile trip. If the school wasn't at the top of a long slope, I'd get more. The Energi wasn't an option for me due to there being no garage on my property and no real room to build one. I think your mileage will be better than mine.

 

Since it started warming up in April, I reset one of the trip odometers and it is at 44.8 for the last roughly 8300 miles. Part of the drop was my wife using it semiregularly and NOT driving it like a hybrid, but she has gotten much better when she thinks about it since mid July so there shouldn't be as much dropoff. Lifetime is up to 41.2, and I have 2 600 mile tanks since May.

 

Detroit, huh? HUGE Wings fan here. :)

[drdiesel1]

 

Detroit, huh? HUGE Wings fan here. :)

 

Wings and Tigers :hat_tip:

[TheXym]

Wings and Tigers :hat_tip:

Cool. I'm not a big fan of baseball but my dad is a huge Phillies fan and took me to the 1980 and 1983 World Series so I have a soft spot for them.

[MomsHugs]

Sammy, I lived in Iowa & commuted 30 miles one-way for over 10 years through many a snow & ice storm driving a Honda Accord & Prelude with front-wheel drive most of that time. However, I used snow tires in the winter. Frankly, I don't see much difference driving a C-Max with the winter pkg & using snow tires in winter. I've read some posts in here that recommend getting an engine block heater if you live in cold country. Good suggestion regardless the car.

 

As for your dad working on the car - ALL of the newer cars use computers to operate much more than older cars. The C-Max is no exception & Ford offers a bumper-to-bumper extended warranty to deal with that. I bought a 7yr/84,000 extended warranty, which is cheaper than cost of repairs today.

 

Given your situation & considering gas costs, a C-Max Hybrid would save you money that would pay for that extended warranty. The more miles you drive, the more you save on rising gas costs so consider all-in costs over 5-7 years of driving. The Insurance Institute gave the C-Max "Good" safety ratings, which translated into cheaper insurance premiums as well. 

Edited August 21, 2014 by MomsHugs