End of the C-Max near?

[hybridbear]

C-max sales undoubtedly suffer from the bad reputation related to ownner dissatisfaction over problems with Sync, My-ford Touch and - most importantly - the 12-volt system.

 

Do or do not the Fusion Hybrid and Fusion Energi models have these same systems - and all of the attendant problems?

 

If they do not, then why could not Ford have solved all of the C-max problems at the 2014 model year by simply using the Fusion components?

 

If they do, then why would consumer dissatisfaction not extend to the Fusion models and hour those sales ?  And why would Forn not discontinue those models as well?

Some FFH owners have had battery issues, but not in the volume of the C-Max owners. Only 1 or 2 FFH owners have reported online that their cars were bought back by Ford due to 12V battery issues. And most FFH owners that have had the issues have only had persistent "Battery Saver" messages, not dead batteries.

 

And  I just saw this on yahoo:

 

https://screen.yahoo.com/ford-tells-u-dealers-stop-153144773.html

5293 - Announcing Advance Notice 14S18 Safety Recall

Advance Notice: DEMONSTRATION / DELIVERY HOLD - DO NOT DRIVE - Safety Recall 14S18 - Certain 2014 Model Year Focus and C-MAX Vehicles - Steering Gear Replacement. Refer to FMCDealer.com

Jaz ~ If they've been delivered to dealers already, that could be mine then. Do you have any info on build dates? Thanks ~ Eve

This only affects 600 vehicles. Only 32 had been delivered to dealers and none were sold. The rest were stopped at the plant and fixed.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140821/AUTO0102/308210108/Ford-recalls-2014-Focus-C-MAX-Hybrid-cars-potential-steering-gear-issue

[Adrian_L]

If my C-Max does as well as my Olds Intrigue, which I loved driving for 16 yrs, it will have stood the test of time... IMHO.

 

Btw... when GM closed Olds & didn't take the Intrigue over to Buick, I figured those GM folks were just plain dumb & didn't even consider buying GM again.

 

We loved our '83 Olds Cutlass and the thing probably would have gone another 200,000 miles had I not totalled it  (Sorry mum)

 

But this is a different time in history.  2018?!  I hope to have a pure-electric by then, with a 200 mile range.  Or a plug-in hybrid that can hold more than a bag of toilet paper in the trunk. 

 

But let's not ring the death-knell just yet.  If Ford gets its act together and actually markets the car properly, it might catch on.... 

[MomsHugs]

62Lincoln & Hybridbear ~ Thanks for the Detroit News link. Dealership ck'd my VIN & confirmed it's not subject to this recall.

 

AdrianL ~ I'm with you on expecting e-V's by 2018, especially given the cars today mainly by a series of computers. So, perhaps someone will build my COOL car, a concept that really turns today's automotive engineering design on its head. Overcoming drag is a major mechanical engineering challenge, which IMHO will be solved by chemical engineers.

[RockwallRick]

I'm with you! I wanted to wait and go all electric and skip the hybrids altogether but my Wife had a bad

case of new car fever!! :drool:

[Smiling Jack]

I don't know how FE you can make an SUV like the Escape. Higher wheel clearances, roof rack, AWD are oxymoronic terms in a FE world...

 

The original Ford Escape Hybrid - at the time of its introduction - was, by far, the most fuel efficient SUV in the world.

 

And today's Ford Hybrid and PHEV systems are more effective than those of that era.

 

And the new Escape is a whole lot more arrodynamic than that model.

 

I always had an Escape Hybrid high on my wish list.

 

I settled for the C-Max Energi and I have loved the way that has worked out.  A shade more cargo space (without giving up plug-in and lots of EV range) would be nice.  An Escape Energi would solve that.

 

So, I'm now putting an Escape Energi on my wish list.

 

I doubt that I would trade in the C-max, though.  If the c-max goes the way of the Edsel, one day these things are going to be worth a FORTUNE !!!

 

Now a more worrisome thought has occurred to me.  All of the auto makers are now making most vehicles smaller with each new design cycle.  Considering that, now what I think is likely to happen is that Ford will continue to build what we now call a C-max but add an ICE-only model, call it the new Escape and simply retire the C-max name.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Smiling Jack

[Wnuk]

I'm hopeful Ford continues to strengthen the hybrid market with whatever they call a new model in the future. The really have a solid car in the CMax. Makes you wonder why they introduced it, never really marketed it, and now seemingly will quickly let it go by the wayside. 

 

My last vehicle was a 2013 Escape that had a bunch of recalls (some serious like engine fire possibilities) and took some bad press. Yet I still enjoyed driving it very much and found it to be just the right size between too small to haul anything and too large for good fuel economy. Even with all the bad press Ford is selling these things by the bucket full. Yet the CMax does not?

 

The crossover SUV market WITH a solid hybrid/Electric combo I bet would be huge. I looked at a Subaru Crosstrek  hybrid as an example of AWD in a hybrid platform.  The fuel economy was rated just a bit above its non hybrid counterpart so it didn't make sense. What it DID show was that an AWD hybrid IS possible.

[Kelleytoons]

The original Ford Escape Hybrid - at the time of its introduction - was, by far, the most fuel efficient SUV in the world.

 

That's a bit like saying the new Transformers film is the best Transformers film ever made.  It's a dubious distinction at best.

 

It was a tiny SUV with a combined mpg of about 29 -- at the time, my big Durango got a combined mpg of around 20.  So, yes, the Escape got better mileage, but not by much and by giving up a TON of space.

 

SUVs just are never going to get the FE that more aerodynamic vehicles will, plain and simple.  That doesn't mean it isn't a good idea to build them, or that they won't sell, but if you are going to buy a hybrid you might as well get something that gets true economy unless that's just a happy bonus for whatever else you like about the drive.

 

(Not trying to get into an argument here, just trying to point out that discussions about the Escape aren't really relevant for the purpose of this topic -- which is the ending of the C-Max line.  Unless anyone thinks they can build an SUV which gets 50+ combined MPG.  I just don't see that happening).

[nsteblay]

I hope they keep the C-Max philosophy alive if not the name.  Its the styling - a crossover SUV like ride in a hybrid - that sells most people on the C-Max.  I don't think I would buy a hybrid Focus anymore than I would buy a Prius.  It is the headroom, visibility, seat comfort, quietness, etc. that sold my wife and I on the car.  Hopefully Ford can recover respect for the C-Max name from the Consumer Reports fiasco in the next couple of years.

 

I'm getting a consistent 50 MPG this summer (last three tanks), 41 MPG on some big freeway road trips.  At the two year mark I think my lifetime average will be about 41 MPG.  If I lived in a warm climate I would be doing much better.  I've had the car in a couple of times for recalls but it really hasn't had one major problem.  

 

I don't know ... Ford's got something here that is different and good.  CR is so off the mark its sad.  

[Kelleytoons]

+1

[plus 3 golfer]

I assume most know that the C-Max platform is about 11 years old and the US C-Max is the 2nd generation C-Max platform which was first built in Europe in 2010.  In 2018 the C-Max platform will be about 15 years old.  It's likely time for a change and a redesign to build a platform around hybrid equipment.

 

I also hope Ford keeps virtually all the attributes mentioned above.  But my guess is Ford will shrink some of the dimensions to reduce frontal area and redesign the body to be more aerodynamic - lower Cd.  Ford also needs to reduce the weight which obviously would be hard to do with an existing platform.  If Ford can find get more cargo area by relocating the HVB and so forth, I could live with a couple inches less headroom and less vehicle weight to reduce drag and improve FE.  But I can't live with a Focus sized C-Max vehicle.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[Adrian_L]

Good points.  To me the size is perfect (I don't think she's a small car by any means)  but overweight, to be sure. 

[ScubaDadMiami]

...discussions about the Escape aren't really relevant for the purpose of this topic -- which is the ending of the C-Max line.  Unless anyone thinks they can build an SUV which gets 50+ combined MPG.  I just don't see that happening.

I don't think that it will happen by 2018, but it could be well on the way, I hope.

 

But my guess is Ford will shrink some of the dimensions to reduce frontal area and redesign the body to be more aerodynamic - lower Cd.  Ford also needs to reduce the weight....

Maybe a little nip here and a little tuck there, that sort of thing, but I don't see making a smaller C-MAX as the next step, and I hope that they don't go that route. I am not looking to drive a smaller car to get fuel efficiency, which is why I picked the C-MAX in the first place. If the C-MAX were any smaller, I probably would not be driving one.

 

My guess, and this is just a total guess, is that improvements that you mention--vehicle design and materials--will combine with things like improvements in battery technology and use of alternative fuels, allowing larger vehicles to perform pretty well, especially when compared to today. By then, Ford might have larger gas/hybrid/plug-in/electric/Hydrogen versions of a Focus that gets really great (such as hybrid = 55+ MPG) fuel economy while also releasing a new Escape that gets something like 40+ MPG. (Hey, I am allowed to dream.)

 

At that point, will there be a big enough niche for people that would be looking for about 50 MPG in a vehicle that would be just a tad smaller than the Escape? Maybe, especially if it sells enough to bring Ford's fleet fuel efficiency ratings up to required government standards. However, if Ford is well on the way to meeting government standards, they may not need the C-MAX in the fleet anymore. With the bigger Focus and the more fuel efficient Escape customers nipping away at the audience, I can understand why there would not be enough of a niche to justify its continued run.

 

Still, I am surprised that this great concept vehicle would disappear from the market. I figured that Ford was gearing up to release a domestic Grand C-MAX Hybrid/Energi/plug-in for customers that don't want the SUV type appearance of the Escape, and that the Grand would carry the smaller version enough to justify its continued existence.

[nsteblay]

Saw this article http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2014/08/21/can-ford-next-hybrid-beat-prius/

 

Most of the car manufacturers are moving toward global platforms for their manufacturing thereby lowering costs and improving quality outcomes.

 

According to the article Ford will be developing multiple car types on the platform - I would assume the same for the hybrids.  Again I hope they have something similar to the C-Max.  Focus is too small, the Escape is too big, the C-Max is just right.  

[Jus-A-CMax]

...is it me, or is there something special about the Cmax seating. I don't sit down in a lounge chair as I feel in a Jaguar. I never knew how comfortable it is to sit in a more vertical upright position with easy in & out. Whatever they come out with, if they can give me that - like I said, I'm all for it.

[kostby]

Businessinsider's slightly different take on the same info: 

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-exclusive-ford-plans-new-hybrid-series-to-compete-with-toyota-prius---sources-2014-8

 

 

What we seem to be missing is that the current Focus and current Escape will ALSO be replaced by new variants built on the C2 global platform, much as the current C-MAX, Focus, and Escape share the C global platform, and hence the inherited name of our cars, "C-MAX"

 

"The future Ford hybrid would be built on the company’s C2 global platform, which will provide the foundation for the next-generation Focus compact car and Escape sport-utility vehicle as well."

[Wnuk]

Here's another article with a similar take on what Ford is doing.

 

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/08/24/how-ford-motor-company-will-take-on-toyotas-prius.aspx

 

I'm hopeful for very good things to come from Ford in all of this.

[nsteblay]

Businessinsider's slightly different take on the same info: 

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-exclusive-ford-plans-new-hybrid-series-to-compete-with-toyota-prius---sources-2014-8

 

 

What we seem to be missing is that the current Focus and current Escape will ALSO be replaced by new variants built on the C2 global platform, much as the current C-MAX, Focus, and Escape share the C global platform, and hence the inherited name of our cars, "C-MAX"

 

"The future Ford hybrid would be built on the company’s C2 global platform, which will provide the foundation for the next-generation Focus compact car and Escape sport-utility vehicle as well."

Thanks.  We should assume then an evolution of the C global platform - the "Son of C-Max"!

[kostby]

More speculation on the same C2 platform information http://insideevs.com/compact-ford-plug-hybrid-coming-new-c2-platform-2018/

[Jeff Brandt]

This all seems quite speculative.  The neutral and reliable reports I've seen are that the C-Max sales are not off the charts but at the same time are "steady".  Dealerships are not ashamed to have extra C-Maxes on their lot, that is foresure.  These are the same reports that study sales figures at dealerships all across the country.  There is no sign that Ford marks down the C-Max any more than they do other models (read the 20% figure with incentives; that's with all the bizarre incentives stacked, and any Ford model would sell at 20% off MSRP with all the incentives stacked like that INCLUDING FIESTA).  Were the EPA figures a set back, yes.  But, as stated, research is showing that sales are still "steady" and reports are saying that dealers will negotiate a "fair" price, but not "fire sale" them.  

Ford just admitted that the C-Max will take off in the ride share market (and is the perfect car for that).  Ford also just added more money into marketing the C-Max SE on many hand held devices.

 

I personally think all this C-Max being discontinued talk is extremely early to be discussing.

 

I'm all for the return of Pontiac and the with it the surprise announcement of the "Aztek Hybrid".  :-) 

[Jus-A-CMax]

This all seems quite speculative.  The neutral and reliable reports I've seen are that the C-Max sales are not off the charts but at the same time are "steady".  Dealerships are not ashamed to have extra C-Maxes on their lot, that is foresure.  These are the same reports that study sales figures at dealerships all across the country.  There is no sign that Ford marks down the C-Max any more than they do other models (read the 20% figure with incentives; that's with all the bizarre incentives stacked, and any Ford model would sell at 20% off MSRP with all the incentives stacked like that INCLUDING FIESTA).  Were the EPA figures a set back, yes.  But, as stated, research is showing that sales are still "steady" and reports are saying that dealers will negotiate a "fair" price, but not "fire sale" them.  

Ford just admitted that the C-Max will take off in the ride share market (and is the perfect car for that).  Ford also just added more money into marketing the C-Max SE on many hand held devices.

 

I personally think all this C-Max being discontinued talk is extremely early to be discussing.

 

I'm all for the return of Pontiac and the with it the surprise announcement of the "Aztek Hybrid".  :-) 

 

 

welcome to forum...I hope that comes true...I can't wait till Consumer Reports buy their own and does a toaster review of the new Aztek (ex-toaster reviewers who have been promoted to hybrid test car drivers) :lol:

[banditb17]

I kinda figured it was going in that direction, even seeing the ford summer spectacular commercials airing in my area completely ignoring the fact that the C-Max exists even though we all know they recorded a segment for that commercial specifically for the C-Max.

 

Maybe they just don't sell well in colder climates?

[Kelleytoons]

They don't advertise them here in Florida, either bandit.  And we can't be accused of having cold temps <g>.

 

The ONLY ad I've ever seen for the C-Max, long after we bought, is that extensive "Summer Spectacular" one that covers the entire line.  It has about 3 seconds (literally) showing the C-Max, with the rest of the 60 second spot devoted to the rest of the line-up.  But they don't often run that whole thing anymore and the truncated version naturally cuts our beloved vehicle out.

[bro1999]

welcome to forum...I hope that comes true...I can't wait till Consumer Reports buy their own and does a toaster review of the new Aztek (ex-toaster reviewers who have been promoted to hybrid test car drivers) :lol:

 

The i3 sorta looks like an Aztek from behind, if you look at it from the right (wrong?) angle... :gaah:

[Testdriver]

Ford took risks in developing the North American C-MAX as a Hybrid, instead of importing proven (German) diesel and Eco-boost engines and DSG transmissions easily capable of delivering 40 to 60 mpg or more. That's the problem with sharing 'world cars': Not every world market has the same transportation priorities.

 

I'd guess that manufacturing and the supply chain were probably targeting initial sales of 5,000 C-MAX's a month (and they actually approached that combined number ONCE, in November, 2012, likely due to early fleet orders). Who knows what the first-year sales target was? 50,000, 75,000, maybe 100,000?

 

Less than 6,000 diesel Chevy Cruze's were sold in it's first year in the US. Hybrids are currently much more popular in the US than diesels. Volkswagen, by far the largest producer of diesel cars in the US, topped 100,000 sold for the first time last year. Meanwhile, the Prius alone sold 145k in the US, and Ford sold over 80,000 hybrids in 2013.

 

It's hard to say if Ford is disappointed in C-Max sales. They never really marketed it that heavily, and sales numbers have been OK. I'm guessing it's been a moderate disappointment, but not a disaster. 

 

With that said, Ford's current hybrid line-up is kinda awkward, and it sounds like they're making some smart adjustments. The 2013+ Ford Escape is vastly different than the old model that they used to sell with a hybrid option. The new model should be able to achieve fairly close to the C-Max's MPG. It really is just a slightly bigger and taller C-Max. I'm guessing the new Ford Escape would get around 38/33 MPG. The next gen model will likely be slightly smaller and more aerodynamic, so I could easily see a next gen Escape Hybrid cracking 40 city MPG.

 

And then replacing the Fusion Hybrid with a Prius competitor, that will presumably have actual trunk space just makes a lot of sense.

 

I'll be sad to see the C-Max go, but I'm also excited to see what Ford comes up with in a couple years.

[hybridbear]

It was a tiny SUV with a combined mpg of about 29 -- at the time, my big Durango got a combined mpg of around 20.  So, yes, the Escape got better mileage, but not by much and by giving up a TON of space.

Ummm... 29 versus 20 is a HUGE improvement, a 45% improvement in fact!