Check Engine Light

[andrew]

I hope folks don't mind the frequent updates, but, I just can't seem to help it...  So, while waiting for the part (purge valve) to arrive, I took the vehicle home in order to continue familiarizing myself with all the controls and screens, etc...  The service folks said it would be OK to drive with the check engine light on, with the caveat that the gas engine may not operate as efficiently as it should.  OK, I can live with that.  After driving for about a week, I was still getting in excess of 45mpg...

 

Anyway, driving in to work this morning, I noticed that the check engine light had gone out (on it's own apparently).  This begs the questions: do I really need the replacement purge valve (still on-order); and, how long do I wait before deciding that it's no longer needed?  i.e.: until the light does/doesn't come back on?  I just love waiting for something to NOT happen....

 

As an IT guy (information technology / computer geek) I'm beginning to wonder if the old joke about computers with Microsoft Windows, you know the one, "if it hangs, just re-boot it", is now going to apply to cars with Microsoft Sync built in :-)   Just re-start it a couple of times, and it'll go away...

[DaveofDurham]

 

From the owners manual

 

"When the service engine soon indicator illuminates, the OBD-II

system has detected a malfunction. Temporary malfunctions

may cause the service engine soon indicator to illuminate.

Examples are:

1. The vehicle has run out of fuel—the engine may misfire or run poorly.

2. Poor fuel quality or water in the fuel—the engine may misfire or run

poorly.

3. The fuel fill inlet may not have been properly closed. See Easy Fuel

No Cap Fuel System in this chapter."

 

 

Thanks wab. 

 

The wording of item 3 is funny.  It makes it sound like there is something active we do to close the fuel fill inlet when the reality is that it closes (or at least is supposed to close) itself when the fuel filler nozzle is removed.  This wording appears at least 3 times in the manual.

 

This got me to give the Fuel and Refueling section thoroughly.  Three things I noticed that I didn't notice before were:

 

-  There are two flaps that get pushed open when the fuel filler nozzle is inserted.  See diagrams on pages 194 and 196 of the manual.  This makes me wonder if I would be able to achieve a faster fill rate by inserting the nozzle more than I have been.

 

- If the fuel fill inlet does not close properly, a Check Fuel Fill Inlet message may appear and the suggested fix (pages 195 and 198 of the manual) is:

"1. Safely pull off the road.

2. Put the vehicle in P (Park) and turn the ignition off.

3. Open the fuel filler door and remove any visible debris from the fuel

fill opening.

4. Insert either the fuel fill nozzle or the fuel fill funnel provided with the

vehicle several times to dislodge any debris and/or allow the inlet to

close properly.

If this action corrects the problem, the message may not reset

immediately. It may take several driving cycles for the message to turn

off. A driving cycle consists of an engine start-up (after four or more

hours with the engine off) followed by city/highway driving. Continuing

to drive with the message on may cause the service engine soon lamp to

turn on as well."

 

- [What wab posted] If the Service Engine Soon lamp comes on it may be an indication of a temporary malfunction.  One temporary malfunction is the fuel inlet not properly closing in which case the manual directs us back to the above instructions for trying to get the fuel inlet to close properly.  From page 203 of the manual (bold added):

 

"When the service engine soon indicator illuminates, the OBD-II

system has detected a malfunction. Temporary malfunctions

may cause the service engine soon indicator to illuminate.

Examples are:

1. The vehicle has run out of fuel—the engine may misfire or run poorly.

2. Poor fuel quality or water in the fuel—the engine may misfire or run

poorly.

3. The fuel fill inlet may not have been properly closed. See Easy Fuel®

No Cap Fuel System in this chapter.

4. Driving through deep water—the electrical system may be wet.

These temporary malfunctions can be corrected by filling the fuel tank

with good quality fuel, properly closing the fuel fill inlet or letting the

electrical system dry out. After three driving cycles without these or any

other temporary malfunctions present, the service engine soon indicator

should stay off the next time the engine is started. A driving cycle

consists of a cold engine start-up followed by mixed city or highway

driving. No additional vehicle service is required.

If the service engine soon indicator remains on, have your vehicle

serviced at the first available opportunity. Although some malfunctions

detected by the OBD-II may not have symptoms that are apparent,

continued driving with the service engine soon indicator on can result

in increased emissions, lower fuel economy, reduced engine and

transmission smoothness, and can lead to more costly repairs.

 

 

[drdiesel1]

 

From the owners manual

 

"When the service engine soon indicator illuminates, the OBD-II

system has detected a malfunction. Temporary malfunctions

may cause the service engine soon indicator to illuminate.

"Examples are:"

1. The vehicle has run out of fuel—the engine may misfire or run poorly.

2. Poor fuel quality or water in the fuel—the engine may misfire or run

poorly.

3. The fuel fill inlet may not have been properly closed. See Easy Fuel

No Cap Fuel System in this chapter."

 

OR.................................It could be any one of these few causes ??????????????????????????

 

I like how you edited the information to suit your point.  You left out the FACT, they never said anything about the Check Fuel Inlet light coming on. How convenient :drop:

We can guess till the cows come home, but the fact remains...

If you don't know what the system is seeing as a fault..............It's a total waste of time futzing around with the computer

sensors, actuators and switches.  You can cause more codes to set and cause the dealer to miss the actual problem(s).

 

Here are just a small sample of issues that can cause the MIL to come on. Don't forget we have about 10 more modules that can add to this list. Each one has it own code set that you can't read unless you have an IDS.

P1000 OBD-II Monitor Testing Incomplete P1001 KOER Test Cannot Be Completed P1039 Vehicle Speed Signal Missing or Improper P1051 Brake Switch Signal Missing or Improper P1100 Mass Air Flow Sensor Intermittent P1101 Mass Air Flow Sensor out of Self-Test Range P1112 Intake Air Temperature Sensor Intermittent P1116 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor is out of Self-Test Range P1117 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor Intermittent P1120 Throttle Position Sensor out of range P1121 Throttle Position Sensor Inconsistent with Mass Air Flow Sensor P1124 Throttle Position Sensor out of Self-Test Range P1125 Throttle Position Sensor Intermittent P1127 Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater not on During KOER Test P1128 Heated Oxygen Sensor Signals reversed P1129 Heated Oxygen Sensor Signals reversed P1130 Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Adaptive Fuel Limit - Bank No. 1 P1131 Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Lean - Bank No. 1 P1132 Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich - Bank No. 1 P1135 Ignition Switch Signal Missing or Improper P1137 Lack of Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Lean - Bank No. 1 P1138 Lack of Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich - Bank No. 1 P1150 Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Adaptive Fuel Limit - Bank No. 2 P1151 Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Lean - Bank No. 2 P1152 Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich - Bank No. 2 P1157 Lack of Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Lean - Bank No. 2 P1158 Lack of Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich - Bank No. 2 P1220 Series Throttle Control fault P1224 Throttle Position Sensor B out of Self-Test Range P1230 Open Power to Fuel Pump circuit P1231 High Speed Fuel Pump Relay activated P1232 Low Speed Fuel Pump Primary circuit failure P1233 Fuel Pump Driver Module off-line P1234 Fuel Pump Driver Module off-line P1235 Fuel Pump Control out of range P1236 Fuel Pump Control out of range P1237 Fuel Pump Secondary circuit fault P1238 Fuel Pump Secondary circuit fault P1250 Lack of Power to FPRC Solenoid P1260 Theft Detected - Engine Disabled P1270 Engine RPM or Vehicle Speed Limiter Reached P1288 Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor out of Self-Test Range P1289 Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor Signal Greater Than Self-Test Range P1290 Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor Signal Less Than Self-Test Range P1299 Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor Detected Engine Overheating Condition P1309 Misfire Detection Monitor not enabled P1351 Ignition Diagnostic Monitor circuit Input fault P1352 Ignition Coil A - Primary circuit fault P1353 Ignition Coil B - Primary circuit fault P1354 Ignition Coil C - Primary circuit fault P1355 Ignition Coil D - Primary circuit fault P1356 Loss of Ignition Diagnostic Module Input to PCM P1358 Ignition Diagnostic Monitor Signal out of Self-Test Range P1359 Spark Output circuit fault P1364 Ignition Coil Primary circuit fault P1380 VCT Solenoid Valve circuit Short or Open P1381 Cam Timing Advance is excessive P1383 Cam Timing Advance is excessive P1390 Octane Adjust out of Self-Test Range P1400 Differential Pressure Feedback Electronic Sensor circuit Low Voltage P1401 Differential Pressure Feedback Electronic Sensor circuit High Voltage P1403 Differential Pressure Feedback Electronic Sensor Hoses Reversed P1405 Differential Pressure Feedback Electronic Sensor circuit Upstream Hose P1406 Differential Pressure Feedback Electronic Sensor circuit Downstream Hose P1407 EGR No Flow Detected P1408 EGR Flow out of Self-Test Range P1409? EGR Vacuum Regulator circuit malfunction P1409? Electronic Vacuum Regulator Control circuit fault P1410 EGR Barometric Pressure Sensor VREF Voltage P1411 Secondary Air is not being diverted P1413 Secondary Air Injection System Monitor circuit Low Voltage P1414 Secondary Air Injection System Monitor circuit High Voltage P1442 Secondary Air Injection System Monitor circuit High Voltage P1443 Evaporative Emission Control System - Vacuum System - Purge Control Solenoid or Purge Control Valve fault P1444 Purge Flow Sensor circuit Input Low P1445 Purge Flow Sensor circuit Input High P1450 Inability of Evaporative Emission Control System to Bleed Fuel Tank P1451 EVAP Control System Canister Vent Solenoid Circuit Malfunction P1452 Inability of Evaporative Emission Control System to Bleed Fuel Tank P1455 Substantial Leak or Blockage in Evaporative Emission Control System P1460 Wide Open Throttle Air Conditioning Cutoff circuit malfunction P1461 Air Conditioning Pressure Sensor circuit Low Input P1462 Air Conditioning Pressure Sensor circuit high Input P1463 Air Conditioning Pressure Sensor Insufficient Pressure change P1464 ACCS to PCM High During Self-Test P1469 Low Air Conditioning Cycling Period P1473 Fan Secondary High with Fans Off P1474 Low Fan Control Primary circuit P1479 High Fan Control Primary circuit P1480 Fan Secondary Low with Low Fans On P1481 Fan Secondary Low with High Fans On P1483 Power to Cooling Fan Exceeded Normal Draw P1484 Variable Load Control Module Pin 1 Open P1500 Vehicle Speed Sensor Intermittent P1501 Programmable Speedometer & Odometer Module/Vehicle Speed Sensor Intermittent circuit-failure P1502 Invalid or Missing Vehicle Speed Message or Brake Data P1504 Intake Air Control circuit malfunction P1505 Idle Air Control System at Adaptive Clip P1506 Idle Air Control Over Speed Error P1507 Idle Air Control Under Speed Error P1512 Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Closed P1513 Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Closed P1516 Intake Manifold Runner Control Input Error P1517 Intake Manifold Runner Control Input Error P1518 Intake Manifold Runner Control fault - Stuck Open P1519? Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Open P1520? Intake Manifold Runner Control circuit fault P1519? Intake Manifold Runner Control fault - Stuck Closed P1520? Intake Manifold Runner Control fault P1530 Open or Short to A/C Compressor Clutch circuit P1537 Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Open P1538 Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Open P1539 Power to A/C Compressor Clutch circuit Exceeded Normal Current Draw P1549 Intake Manifold Temperature Valve Vacuum Actuator Connection P1550 Power Steering Pressure Sensor out of Self-Test Range P1605 PCM Keep Alive Memory Test Error P1625 Voltage to Vehicle Load Control Module Fan circuit not detected P1626 Voltage to Vehicle Load Control Module circuit not detected P1650 Power Steering Pressure Switch out of Self-Test Range P1651 Power Steering Pressure Switch Input fault P1700 Transmission system problems P1701 Reverse Engagement Error P1702 Transmission system problems P1703 Brake On/Off Switch out of Self-Test Range P1704 Transmission system problems P1705 Manual Lever Position Sensor out of Self-Test Range P1709 Park or Neutral Position Switch out of Self-Test Range P1710 Transmission system problems P1711 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor out of Self-Test Range P1713 thru P172 Transmission system problems P1729 4x4 Low Switch Error P1740 Transmission system problems P1741 Torque Converter Clutch Control Error P1742 Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Faulty P1743 Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Faulty P1744 Torque Converter Clutch System Stuck in Off Position P1745 Transmission system problems P1746 Electronic Pressure Control Solenoid - Open circuit P1747 Electronic Pressure Control Solenoid - Short circuit P1749 Electronic Pressure Control Solenoid Failed Low P1751 Shift Solenoid No. 1 Performance P1754 Coast Clutch Solenoid circuit malfunction P1756 Shift Solenoid No. 2 Performance P1760 Transmission system problems P1761 Shift Solenoid No. 3 Performance P1762 Transmission system problems P1767 Transmission system problems P1780 Transmission Control Switch circuit is out of Self-Test Range P1781 4x4 Low Switch is out of Self-Test Range P1783 Transmission Over-Temperature Condition P1784 Transmission system problems P1785 Transmission system problems P1786 Transmission system problems P1787 Transmission system problems P1788 Transmission system problems P1789 Transmission system problems P1900 Transmission system problems.

 

This list doesn't even include the CAN system codes.  If a module has an intermittent loss of communication

on the buss, it will set a Uxxxx code and the MIL will turn on. Flipping the flap wont fix it..... :spend: :spend: :spend:

Edited October 15, 2013 by drdiesel1

[fbov]

I've had a couple cases of Check Engine light, including yesterday on my way to the dealer for the recalls. First time, it went out after I filled up (no specific action). This time, it's after a 2-fill-up trip over the weekend at vapro recovery stations (little hood over the nozzle; thankfully not required in upstate NY). It'll be interesting to see what the dealer does, if anythign... I forgot to mention it.

 

Part of me misses the gas cap... they were very good for propping open fueling valves on disabled pumps so I could check oil and wash windows without keeping anyone waiting. Of course, it does't take long to fill  a C-Max...

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[drdiesel1]

I've had a couple cases of Check Engine light, including yesterday on my way to the dealer for the recalls. First time, it went out after I filled up (no specific action). This time, it's after a 2-fill-up trip over the weekend at vapro recovery stations (little hood over the nozzle; thankfully not required in upstate NY). It'll be interesting to see what the dealer does, if anythign... I forgot to mention it.

 

Part of me misses the gas cap... they were very good for propping open fueling valves on disabled pumps so I could check oil and wash windows without keeping anyone waiting. Of course, it does't take long to fill  a C-Max...

 

HAve fun,

Frank

The dealers "SHOULD" pull all system DTC and note them on the repair order. Most don't because they're to lazy. 

The IDS will even print the data. If it was my car, I would ask for a printed copy of the stored DTC's :victory:

Edited October 15, 2013 by drdiesel1

[DaveofDurham]

 

From the owners manual

 

"When the service engine soon indicator illuminates, the OBD-II

system has detected a malfunction. Temporary malfunctions

may cause the service engine soon indicator to illuminate.

Examples are:

1. The vehicle has run out of fuel—the engine may misfire or run poorly.

2. Poor fuel quality or water in the fuel—the engine may misfire or run

poorly.

3. The fuel fill inlet may not have been properly closed. See Easy Fuel

No Cap Fuel System in this chapter."

 

 

 

 

OR.................................It could be any one of these few causes ??????????????????????????

 

I like how you edited the information to suit your point.  You left out the FACT, they never said anything about the Check Fuel Inlet light coming on. How convenient . . .

 

 

I don't think that wab edited or left something out to suit his point.  Item 3 in wab's post ends with "See Easy Fuel

No Cap Fuel System in this chapter."  That's a reference to pages 195 (hybrid) and 198 (energi) in the manual which discusses Check Fuel Inlet message:

 

"If the fuel fill inlet was not properly closed, a Check Fuel Fill Inlet

message may appear on the information display screen. At the next

opportunity, do the following:

1. Safely pull off the road.

2. Put the vehicle in P (Park) and turn the ignition off.

3. Open the fuel filler door and remove any visible debris from the fuel

fill opening.

4. Insert either the fuel fill nozzle or the fuel fill funnel provided with the

vehicle several times to dislodge any debris and/or allow the inlet to

close properly.

If this action corrects the problem, the message may not reset

immediately. It may take several driving cycles for the message to turn

off. A driving cycle consists of an engine start-up (after four or more

hours with the engine off) followed by city/highway driving. Continuing

to drive with the message on may cause the service engine soon lamp to

turn on as well."

 

So the manual says an improperly closed fuel fill inlet may give a Check Fuel Fill Inlet message or may give a Service Engine Soon message,  It doesn't say that it will give Check Fuel Inlet message first and Service Engine Soon message second which would make sense to me if the fuel fill inlet was not closed properly for an extended period of time.

 

The manual does describe four types of temporary malfunctions, how to resolve them and how long it can take for the Service Engine Soon message to go away if it is appearing because of a temporary malfunction.  It takes a while for the message to go away and I know I am not always that patient.  For example if I thought I had "Poor fuel quality or water in the fuel—the engine may misfire or run poorly" I don't think I would want to keep driving until I had used up most of this bad fuel and then fill up with hopefully good fuel to see if the light went off - I'd prefer having my fuel checked to see if it's bad and, if so, have it removed from my car.  Last Friday night we had the yellow wrench (Powertrain Malfunction/Reduced Power) warning come on and stay on for a 20 minute drive.  Ordinarily I would have been willing to wait a few days to see if this persisted or never happened again, but I took it in for the dealer to look at Saturday morning because my wife was going to be taking the car on a 1,000 mile trip a few days later.  The dealer found no codes and could not explain why the yellow wrench had appeared.  We haven't seen it except for that one time on Friday night, but I am glad that I had it checked out. 

Edited October 15, 2013 by DaveofDurham

[wab]

BY THE BOOK :baby: for the last time...PLEASE!

Copy and paste from page 198

 

Owners Guide gf, 1st Printing

USA (fus)"

 

 

 

198 Fuel and Refueling

Do not make any unauthorized changes to your vehicle or engine. By

law, vehicle owners and anyone who manufactures, repairs, services,

sells, leases, trades vehicles, or supervises a fleet of vehicles are not

permitted to intentionally remove an emission control device or prevent

it from working. Information about your vehicle’s emission system is on

the Vehicle Emission Control Information Decal located on or near the

engine. This decal also lists engine displacement.

Please consult your warranty information for complete emission warranty

information.

On-board Diagnostics (OBD-II)

Your vehicle is equipped with a computer that monitors the engine’s

emission control system. This system is commonly known as the

on-board diagnostics system (OBD-II). The OBD-II system protects the

environment by ensuring that your vehicle continues to meet

government emission standards. The OBD-II system also assists your

authorized dealer in properly servicing your vehicle.

When the service engine soon indicator illuminates, the OBD-II

system has detected a malfunction. Temporary malfunctions

may cause the service engine soon indicator to illuminate.

Examples are:

1. The vehicle has run out of fuel—the engine may misfire or run poorly.

2. Poor fuel quality or water in the fuel—the engine may misfire or run

poorly.

3. The fuel fill inlet may not have been properly closed. See Easy Fuel

No Cap Fuel System in this chapter.

4. Driving through deep water—the electrical system may be wet.

These temporary malfunctions can be corrected by filling the fuel tank

with good quality fuel, properly closing the fuel fill inlet or letting the

electrical system dry out. After three driving cycles without these or any

other temporary malfunctions present, the service engine soon indicator

should stay off the next time the engine is started. A driving cycle

consists of a cold engine start-up followed by mixed city or highway

driving. No additional vehicle service is required.

If the service engine soon indicator remains on, have your vehicle

serviced at the first available opportunity. Although some malfunctions

detected by the OBD-II may not have symptoms that are apparent,

continued driving with the service engine soon indicator on can result in

increased emissions, lower fuel economy, reduced engine and

transmission smoothness, and lead to more costly repairs.

2013 C-Max Full Hybrid (34h)

Owners Guide gf, 1st Printing

USA (fus)"

[drdiesel1]

You still don't comprehind................. the MIL will come on for over 1000 possible problems..... THAT's THE BOTTOM LINE!

 

Guessing why it's on, is like expecting to win the lottery every week :lol: :lol2: :clapping:

 

 

Why do you think they make diagnostic tools for dealers/professionals ?

Edited October 15, 2013 by drdiesel1

[DaveofDurham]

You still don't comprehind................. the MIL will come on for over 1000 possible problems..... THAT's THE BOTTOM LINE!

 

Guessing why it's on, is like expecting to win the lottery every week :lol: :lol2: :clapping:

 

 

Why do you think they make diagnostic tools for dealers/professionals ?

 

1]  Is your advice that every time the MIL comes on that an IDS should be hooked up to see why the MIL is on?

 

2]  Why does the manual go on about temporary malfunctions and how they might be resolved and how long it takes for the MIL to turn off if it was triggered by a temporary malfunction which has been resolved?  Is this just another way in which the C-Max comes with a crummy manual?

 

3] Comprehind?  That's what I do when my butt tells me that I have my seat heater turned up too high.  :happy feet:

[fbov]

Since you bring up comprehension, why do you think the manufacturer is telling us, very unambiguously, to check it?

 

Perhaps Ford knows it's a source of a lot of false positive activations of the MIL, and having users affect a remedy ends up better for everyone involved. Remember, every time you have to call the dealer due to a problem, Ford loses money on the call. In the service and support business, the cheapest way to service a car is to have the customer take care of it themselves. If that remedy fails, you bring it in for Ford to find out which of the 999 other things it may be.

 

Guessing why it's on is not productive. Screening the simple reasons, as directed by documentation, is the first step to problem solving.

 

Have fun,

Frank

[drdiesel1]

1]  Is your advice that every time the MIL comes on that an IDS should be hooked up to see why the MIL is on?

 

2]  Why does the manual go on about temporary malfunctions and how they might be resolved and how long it takes for the MIL to turn off if it was triggered by a temporary malfunction which has been resolved?  Is this just another way in which the C-Max comes with a crummy manual?

 

3] Comprehind?  That's what I do when my butt tells me that I have my seat heater turned up too high.  :happy feet:

Yes!  At least use a comprehensive diagnostic tool to read stored DTC's... Only the IDS will read 100% of the systems fault codes, but some better tools can read most PCM codes.

Edited October 16, 2013 by drdiesel1

[drdiesel1]

Since you bring up comprehension, why do you think the manufacturer is telling us, very unambiguously, to check it?

 

Perhaps Ford knows it's a source of a lot of false positive activations of the MIL, and having users affect a remedy ends up better for everyone involved. Remember, every time you have to call the dealer due to a problem, Ford loses money on the call. In the service and support business, the cheapest way to service a car is to have the customer take care of it themselves. If that remedy fails, you bring it in for Ford to find out which of the 999 other things it may be.

 

Guessing why it's on is not productive. Screening the simple reasons, as directed by documentation, is the first step to problem solving.

 

Have fun,

Frank

READ the STORED DTC's and quit trying to guess what is wrong..  Man!!!! You just refuse to listen to good advise. 

[DaveofDurham]

Yes!  At least use a comprehensive diagnostic tool to read stored DTC's... Only the IDS will read 100% of the systems fault codes, but some better tools can read most PCM codes.

 

Pardon my total ignorance on comprehensive diagnostic tools, but what would I need to buy in order to read stored DTC's and how much will it cost me?

 

Or, can I see stored DTC's by putting my car into engineering test mode?

[drdiesel1]

Pardon my total ignorance on comprehensive diagnostic tools, but what would I need to buy in order to read stored DTC's and how much will it cost me?

 

Or, can I see stored DTC's by putting my car into engineering test mode?

A Scan Gauge II will read PCM DTC's. I don't know it's limitations, but IIRC, it will read only PCM DTC's.

 

I also don't know the limitations the engineer mode, but it's a good start.  Anything is better than guessing and monkeying

around with the sensors, actuators and switches, without knowing what system is causing the light.

 

 An MIL will turn itself off if the system fault is no longer present.

I think it's set at 3 clean drive cycles before it will turn off automatically.

 

You could buy the Auto Ingenuity Scan Tool, with the Ford enhanced pack to read all the modules.

I don't know of any other tool besides the IDS that's capable of reading them all. That's about 450.00 bucks :drop:

[Adair]

Without knowing what DTC the system is reporting, you can guess and futz with the car all day and get nowhere.  You need to know what code is stored before you can assume what the problem might be. The PCM will store a code based on what it's reading from input data.  That will tell you what system has an issue and you'll need to diagnose it from there.

 

 Guessing won't do anything and could cause you to set a false code. By opening the seal on the fuel filler neck, you'll cause the fuel tank pressure sensor to see the pressure change that shouldn't be taking place and it could very well set a code that the dealer can't duplicate. Then they'll keep the car for testing and waste more time on something you caused.  Keeping your car for longer than needed. 

 

 Just keep tinkering with it. When they keep it for a month and can't find anything wrong, you can complain about it to Ford. 

  Stop monkeying around with something you don't understand.

 

 

I see you too enjoy the guessing games and have problems when someone talks straight/directly about things. 

If you can't handle the truth, please don't respond to my post. Better yet, just ignore them and you'll be a happier camper. Thanks!

 

Happy Motoring!

 

 

Yep!  I don't call the kettle black.  I sure don't assume I know it all, but not knowing anything about this cars systems and playing with it's sensors, switches, and controlled actuators is crazy.  Would you open the back of your electrical panel to access the direct power buss and poke around with a screwdriver because the light in the fridge isn't working ?

 

Then when you get electrocuted, sue the power company and complain about how problematic their product is ?

 

 

It's not meant to be rude!  It's meant to be direct... To the POINT  No sugar coating for those that for whatever reason need to have it sweetened  There is a difference, you might like to explore it yourself.  Thanks for your input, but being direct is easiest. No need to wonder what I'm saying or what I mean.......... ;)

It's really not necessary to talk to people like this. To the point is fine, direct is fine, belittling, insulting, and rude is not.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Adair

[Jus-A-CMax]

Thanks Adair...I totally agree. Be nice people  :)

[fotomoto]

You can go to most major auto parts store and ask them to read the codes for free.  They may not always see hybrid specific but the generic ones for sure.

[drdiesel1]

Generic code readers won't cover much. If you can't read more than generic data, you could be fooled into believing the system isn't setting any codes because the scan tool can't read them. Uxxxx codes are the most common fault codes for intermittent glitch faults. When a module on the buss fails to send a signal out, the other modules will report it. U codes are communication faults and no generic code reader will see them. Most generic readers will read only the emissions codes as designated by the DOT.

Edited October 17, 2013 by drdiesel1

[hybridbear]

Or you could just run a vehicle health report when the MIL is on which will provide detailed information about the issue. When I had an issue with the purge solenoid in our FFH the VHR told me that it was the purge solenoid based on the stored DTC. When we had an issue with ice freezing in the fuel inlet and preventing the flaps from closing completely the MIL came on again. In this case the VHR said that the issue was that the fuel filler flaps weren't closing completely. Running a VHR anytime you have an issue is very helpful.

[andrew]

May I just say here, now that my Cmax is back in the shop for the 2nd time since I purchased it, just 2 weeks ago, that Ford seems to have a problem with these cars. The first trip, the service dept replaced a solenoid. Half-a-mile after leaving the shop, the light was back on. Back to Ford we go. This time, they used the Ford "hot-line". Latest diagnosis has resulted in a replacement of a hose connected to some "evaporative" system. Hopefully, picking up the car later on today, and, hopefully, this will end the engine light saga. Anybody want to give odds?

[drdiesel1]

May I just say here, now that my Cmax is back in the shop for the 2nd time since I purchased it, just 2 weeks ago, that Ford seems to have a problem with these cars. The first trip, the service dept replaced a solenoid. Half-a-mile after leaving the shop, the light was back on. Back to Ford we go. This time, they used the Ford "hot-line". Latest diagnosis has resulted in a replacement of a hose connected to some "evaporative" system. Hopefully, picking up the car later on today, and, hopefully, this will end the engine light saga. Anybody want to give odds?

Don't blame Ford for your dealers inability to properly diagnose your car. It's obvious they misdiagnosed it the very first time and failed to QC it before they returned it to you. Incompetence is a common issue in the dealers service departments. They don't pay very well and most have a flat rate system. Flat rate breeds comebacks. 

 

"There's never enough time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over". This has been our motto for years. I worked for GM for 38 years as an hourly technician and left the dealers when the Corporation took over. They killed our union and started the flat rate system. It's not a good environment to work in and the customer is the one that suffers most. 

 

I wish you luck with your MIL problem, but don't blame the car. Sure things happen in production that will

cause problems, but the dealer is responsible for not fixing it right the first time.

Edited October 24, 2013 by drdiesel1

[HotPotato]

13k miles, it just happened to me. Dealer said capless fuel system didn't shut properly, causing a check engine light. They did not offer any kind of fix and said they couldn't guarantee it wouldn't happen again. Sounds like other dealers know what is causing the problem and are fixing it. Just my luck to live in a SoCal town where the Ford store is owned by Perry instead of Galpin.

[drdiesel1]

13k miles, it just happened to me. Dealer said capless fuel system didn't shut properly, causing a check engine light. They did not offer any kind of fix and said they couldn't guarantee it wouldn't happen again. Sounds like other dealers know what is causing the problem and are fixing it. Just my luck to live in a SoCal town where the Ford store is owned by Perry instead of Galpin.

Did the RO have the stored DTC information on it ?

[HotPotato]

Did the RO have the stored DTC information on it ?

 

RO? DTC?

[drdiesel1]

RO? DTC?

RO/Repair Order...... DTC/Diagnostic Trouble Code(s)

Edited November 3, 2013 by drdiesel1