Is Ford phasing out the C-Max Hybrid?

[jdbob]

You can't tow with a CVT and an all wheel drive version would take too much battery energy to move the car and reduce the battery range too much.

 

I can't think of any reason you couldn't tow with an eCVT as there's nothing sliding around. Maybe just increasing the power capability of MG1 to provide more torque to the planetary gearset.

[Bugblndr]

You can't tow with a CVT and an all wheel drive version would take too much battery energy to move the car and reduce the battery range too much. Higher ground clearance may happen if the batteries are relocated and it will take a major redesign to include even a doughnut spare.

 

My Highlander Hybrid had a CVT.  It also had pseudo AWD.  There was no driveshaft to a rear diff but it did have an electric motor that would power the rear wheels and also regenerate power.  It's also rated to tow 3500 lbs.   It towed a boat fine and had no problems pulling it out of the water.

 

Ford has the technology to build an Escape Hybrid, it's just a matter of if they will, and if they can cram it in efficiently into the current platform.

[timwil56]

My previous post has been edited, but I still contend that 4WD defeats the purpose of a Hybrid and especially a PHEV. What sort of range did the Highlander have and was it even possible to run using battery power when towing a boat?

 

The owner's manual states:

TOWING A TRAILER
Never tow a trailer with your
vehicle. This powertrain is not designed to tow.

[nsteblay]

I do think the C-Max's days are numbered.  It will be a stepping stone model.  I believe that I'll get tremendous value out of the car in its lifetime.  Based on original cost, features and operational expenses it has been a great deal.  Really the only other option at the time of purchase was the Toyota Prius.  The Prius was 3K more for comparable features but didn't have nearly the comfort or power. The 20% gain in MPG doesn't offset the advantages of the C-Max.

[mlsstl]

Regarding 4WD in hybrids, Subaru does have a hybrid version of their all-wheel drive Crosstrek, but the gas mileage increase is quite marginal. The main benefit seems to be some extra torque off the line. I suspect the car was mainly an experiment for the company and also a token for a certain segment of their customer base -- Subaru is known for many of their buyers having a very active, outdoor lifestyle so there are going to be a number of serious greenies in that group.

[Bugblndr]

My previous post has been edited, but I still contend that 4WD defeats the purpose of a Hybrid and especially a PHEV. What sort of range did the Highlander have and was it even possible to run using battery power when towing a boat?

 

 

I guess it depends on the size of the boat and trailer.  The Toyota would drive in electric only up to 40 mph, and it would pull our 14' in electric mode.  It wasn't a plug in so range is immaterial..

 

Ford used to have an Escape Hybrid, I almost bought one.  There's no reason they couldn't have another one if they kill off our C-Max.

[Kelleytoons]

As much as I loved our Durango, I'm really glad I don't have a small SUV hybrid.  Yeah, the higher ground clearance is nice, but if it comes at the expense of mpg (which it surely would) I'd pass (I just like being seated higher off the ground as I am currently in Maximis, as opposed to most cars).  I also don't need 4wd, although I realize that most people don't live in Florida <g>.

 

The thing I really *wouldn't* want is the truck suspension -- I don't know if the Ford Escape has that or not, but the actual drive of the C-Max is SO much nicer than any SUV I've ridden in I would never give that up.

 

To me, the C-Max is the perfect compromise -- and, yes, to me it's the hybrid Escape, at least in terms of all the things I'd want out of the Escape.

[ptjones]

I know someone that has an Mariner Hybrid AWD and FORD made Escape Hybrid AWD too. :) 

 

Paul  

[stevedebi]

I'll chime in here, having owned an AWD Escape Hybrid before my C-Max Energi. 

 

- I would prefer the Escape becasue the curbs here are too high for the C-Max - I have to pull the car away from the curb for the passengers to depart.

 

- I liked the AWD, and might get it again, even though it lost about 2 MPG by having it. It was exceptionally handy on vacations and even during the rainy season here.

 

- The FEH was rated for 1000 lb towing. You just can't tow with a small engine like this. Someone mentioned the Toyota Highlander - that has a v6 engine.

 

- I'm running 50 lbs in my tires right now, but in general the FEH was not that much worse for ride. Those tires maxed out at around 35 for me.

Edited June 1, 2015 by stevedebi

[notquitesane]

Optional AWD would be nice for the folks that live in the snowy white north like me.  I don't care about the MPG drop if it means easier driving in deep white stuff.  I'll most likely be getting snow tires this winter, for the first time ever on any vehicle I've owned.

 

I currently love everything about the C-MAX and hope a hybrid car this size would stick around, but I won't be needed a new one for another 7 years or so.

[stevedebi]

Optional AWD would be nice for the folks that live in the snowy white north like me.  I don't care about the MPG drop if it means easier driving in deep white stuff.  I'll most likely be getting snow tires this winter, for the first time ever on any vehicle I've owned.

 

I currently love everything about the C-MAX and hope a hybrid car this size would stick around, but I won't be needed a new one for another 7 years or so.

I would love just one more inch in height.

 

EDIT: Of the door sills off the ground, I mean, or the bottom of the car.

Edited June 2, 2015 by stevedebi

[fbov]

...You just can't tow with a small engine like this. ...

Tell Volvo... their 4-cyl RWD chassis were rated for 3300lb.... they could tow one another.

 

  I'll most likely be getting snow tires this winter, for the first time ever on any vehicle I've owned

You are in for a treat!

 

I would love just one more inch in height.

 

EDIT: Of the door sills off the ground, I mean, or the bottom of the car.

And my wife would love the same, just in the other direction. The car's too tall for someone with her arthritis issues. You can't please everyone!

 

Have fun,

Frank

[stevedebi]

Tell Volvo... their 4-cyl RWD chassis were rated for 3300lb.... they could tow one another.

 

You are in for a treat!

 

And my wife would love the same, just in the other direction. The car's too tall for someone with her arthritis issues. You can't please everyone!

 

Have fun,

Frank

I probably should have said "small engine with a CVT".

[fbov]

I think the towing thing is more about the development process, somewhat akin to the cooling system capability. If a vehicle is rated for towing, it has to carry the rated load up a mountain in the desert in June with AC on, without overheating. I see nothing in a CVT drivetrain that precludes it. I see lots in the "hybrid corporate mindset" that does, at least when it comes to funding the qualification work. If they skimped on EPA testing, you think that's the only place?

 

Have fun,

Frank

[stevedebi]

I think the towing thing is more about the development process, somewhat akin to the cooling system capability. If a vehicle is rated for towing, it has to carry the rated load up a mountain in the desert in June with AC on, without overheating. I see nothing in a CVT drivetrain that precludes it. I see lots in the "hybrid corporate mindset" that does, at least when it comes to funding the qualification work. If they skimped on EPA testing, you think that's the only place?

 

Have fun,

Frank

The details are coming back to me now. The speculation among owners was that it was the braking system on the Escape Hybrid that wasn't up to more than 1K pounds. I believe some folks towed up to 2.5K using trailers with brakes.

[ptjones]

I think the towing thing is more about the development process, somewhat akin to the cooling system capability. If a vehicle is rated for towing, it has to carry the rated load up a mountain in the desert in June with AC on, without overheating. I see nothing in a CVT drivetrain that precludes it. I see lots in the "hybrid corporate mindset" that does, at least when it comes to funding the qualification work. If they skimped on EPA testing, you think that's the only place?

 

Have fun,

Frank

The cooling system wouldn't be the problem, but the Trans cooling sure would. ;)

 

Paul

[Robert Fugate]

I remember when they made a major change on the Jeep Wrangler model they skipped a year 96. Went from 95 to 97 and started selling the 97s' in the middle of 1996. Maybe there's a lot of 2015 C-Max models left on the lots, and they want them to be gone before the new model rolls out.

[PJFW8]

The 2016 production starts in early September.  The only change (other than paint) is Sync 3 replacing MyFordTouch. 2017 or more likely 2018 will be on the new platform which is designed to better accommodate plug-ins and EVs. The name may not survive, but whether called Cmax, Escape or something else, the product will live on. My info is based on reading this and other Ford forum sites. I am thinking of replacing my 2013 Energi with a 2016 Energi. Love Cmax but not MyFordTouch!

Edited June 18, 2015 by PJFW8

[jestevens]

As far as I can tell they've NEVER really advertised the C-MAX in my area - only the Focus, Fusion and Escape..I've only heard the C-MAX ads from a few radio spots on the local NPR station.

 

Unfortunately "hybrid" has a bad reputation in this area of the country, even though I love my car, it has better trim and it actually more reliable (in the SEL version without the battery issue). 

 

People around here used to look at me like I was smoking crack when I told then I actually got 49-50MPG with the Prius sedan..they just didn't believe that number.  I got tired of having two cars and traded both my Prius and HHR for a C-MAX and although there is a hit on MPG compared to the Prius the C-MAX has more power, and more features..it's a great car and I think they would sell more if they pushed the advertising more.

 

The only actual build quality problem I had with the C-MAX was the loose carpet squares over the part of the folding rear seats.

 

I knew what I was getting into MPG-wise because we have a few C-MAX at work, but 40MPG is still pretty good for a cross-over car.

 

I'm not necessarily opposed to an SUV or truck if you have a need for it, like a big family, rough terrain, construction, hauling big items..but the crossover meets most of my needs and rides like a sedan.

Edited June 18, 2015 by jestevens

[timwil56]

Optional AWD would be nice for the folks that live in the snowy white north like me.  I don't care about the MPG drop if it means easier driving in deep white stuff.  I'll most likely be getting snow tires this winter, for the first time ever on any vehicle I've owned.

 

I currently love everything about the C-MAX and hope a hybrid car this size would stick around, but I won't be needed a new one for another 7 years or so.

I bought snows last winter and it made all the difference in the world. I drove in two moderate snow falls before I could get to the tire store and the improvement was night and day. As fbov wrote, you are in for a treat.

[IslandTractor]

Optional AWD would be nice for the folks that live in the snowy white north like me.  I don't care about the MPG drop if it means easier driving in deep white stuff.  I'll most likely be getting snow tires this winter, for the first time ever on any vehicle I've owned.

 

I currently love everything about the C-MAX and hope a hybrid car this size would stick around, but I won't be needed a new one for another 7 years or so.

AWD is vastly overrated as a solution to winter driving.  Winter tires are much much more important but almost everyone with AWD skips them and uses no season tires.  

 

Think about it.  AWD adds weight which makes stopping more difficult.  AWD doesn't help stopping at all.  Driving in snow is dangerous not because you have trouble accelerating but because you cannot stop as quickly.  

 

I can see AWD if you live on a big hill or have a steep driveway or a long rural driveway to navigate but otherwise FWD plus winter tires would be a much better option even in places like Vermont.  

 

Subaru and Audi made some good cars 20+ years ago with AWD and started a marketing trend that made AWD sound like the answer to everyone's wishes for more traction etc.  What they never did was show the public that AWD is always heavier than the same FWD car so it not only gets worse MPG but also stops more slowly.  Simple physics.

 

I'm a Bostonian.  We know winter driving.  The vast majority of families would be better off with winter tires and FWD.  Sadly the public has been bamboozled and our country is on a 25 year AWD bender.  Imagine the many millions of extra gallons of gas wasted pushing AWD vehicles on suburban streets and interstates.  Also, imagine the number of accidents caused by AWD owners who mistakenly think their vehicles are "better in snow" and then cannot stop in time.   It is rare to see an AWD with proper winter tires around here.  

[stevedebi]

AWD is vastly overrated as a solution to winter driving.  Winter tires are much much more important but almost everyone with AWD skips them and uses no season tires.  

 

Think about it.  AWD adds weight which makes stopping more difficult.  AWD doesn't help stopping at all.  Driving in snow is dangerous not because you have trouble accelerating but because you cannot stop as quickly.  

 

I can see AWD if you live on a big hill or have a steep driveway or a long rural driveway to navigate but otherwise FWD plus winter tires would be a much better option even in places like Vermont.  

 

Subaru and Audi made some good cars 20+ years ago with AWD and started a marketing trend that made AWD sound like the answer to everyone's wishes for more traction etc.  What they never did was show the public that AWD is always heavier than the same FWD car so it not only gets worse MPG but also stops more slowly.  Simple physics.

 

I'm a Bostonian.  We know winter driving.  The vast majority of families would be better off with winter tires and FWD.  Sadly the public has been bamboozled and our country is on a 25 year AWD bender.  Imagine the many millions of extra gallons of gas wasted pushing AWD vehicles on suburban streets and interstates.  Also, imagine the number of accidents caused by AWD owners who mistakenly think their vehicles are "better in snow" and then cannot stop in time.   It is rare to see an AWD with proper winter tires around here.  

AWD is needed to get out of being stuck. Many folks make the mistake of thinking it can allow them to do more without getting stuck. That would be true only of true 4WD like a Jeep, not AWD.

[kostby]

A nugget of wisdom from one of my high school students who drove a 4WD pickup truck many, many years ago: "4WD doesn't keep you from getting stuck. It gets you stuck in worse places."  ;)