Had a Breakthrough Regarding MPG

[nsteblay]

I along with many others have had some frustration with the lack of meeting the EPA MPG for the C-Max. I've been trying all sorts of different techniques for achieving better mileage. I had a breakthrough this afternoon.

 

The 2 techniques I've decided are required to get the EPA mileage.

 

Pulse and Glide

 

The trick to increasing mileage as much as possible is to be in EV mode. I was attempting to stay in EV mode as I was accelerating from stops or slow traffic by babying the gas pedal. What I've discovered is if you accelerate to your desired speed quickly (hopefully the speed limit :)) and then totally let up on the gas EV will kick in. Immediately after EV kicks in resume pushing on the gas peddle being careful not to engage the gas engine again. I then glide as long as I can in EV mode. I repeat this process whenever necessary.

 

Brake Early and Long

 

The brake system does a good job of recharging the battery. The trick here is to use it as often as possible. I have been breaking much earlier, steadier, and for as long of a time as I could.

 

Results

 

Before I was at best getting just about 40 MPG.

 

Using the new technique I drove to the dealership from my house this afternoon in mixed traffic (hills, freeway and stop lights). I was easily keeping up with the traffic. I actually was accelerating to the speed limit faster than those behind me. I think the CVT allows for some pretty quick takeoffs. I averaged over 50 MPG for the 26 mile trip.

 

I then had two small trips to pick up some pies for a church social tonight, stopped at church to drop them off, and then came back home. For the small trips (about 10 miles total) I was 47 - 50 MPG.

 

I am going to track now for the next week and will report back. The great thing is Ford has produced an interface that allows me to see what is happening under the hood and that trains me to drive more efficiently. The capability is there in the car I just need to learn how to take advantage of it.

 

There are other challenges I see coming. For one living in Minnesota means the gas engine will need to kick in just to keep the car warm. This will undoubtedly impact mileage. Also snow packed slippery roads won't help. I am glad we've had a few warm days and I was able to easily make the EPA estimates with proper driving techniques. I am feeling much better about the car and driving in the right lane.

 

Nick

Edited November 22, 2012 by nsteblay

[littlebitfarm]

I discovered "Punch and Glide" this week also. Went from 35 MPG to 45 to 50 MPG (all short trips).

 

Kathie

[shaners]

I agree! We just took a 20 mile round trip to dinner and averaged 45+ MPG. I think this car (like any car) is not efficient until the gas engine is warm. 1,2 or 5 mile trips won't get the advertised milage unless the car is already warmed up. Obviously the gas engine is needed for extra power and heat and charging, and once that motor is warm you will enjoy great MPG's. My wifes 3/4 mile commute four times a day will kill our overall MPG's.

[Laurel]

Shaners I wonder if she would like an Amish bicycle for Christmas LOL.

[kechair]

nstlebay, please report back what mpg you are getting for the entire tank using these new techniques. Am happy that you are getting increased mileage!

[shaners]

Laural, I have told her just to walk... it is good for her and will keep the door dings off the car! I might as well talk to the wall!

[Laurel]

I think you get a lot of snow in Pennsylvania--so the walking and/or an Amish bicycle/scooter might not go over so well. Seriously I have thought of ordering one of those scooter bikes since I watched an episode of Breaking Amish and saw one. They look kind of fun, and we have very little snow here on the South Coast of British Columbia.

[Seymour_Bears]

I read in a C-Max review that a light touch on the brake pedal engages regenerative braking, and that additional brake pedal travel engages the traditional braking. So, it would make that a light touch on the pedal early, and very gradual slowing down, will make better use of the regenerative braking.

[shaners]

Seymour you are right! We are avg about 95% right now on regen braking. Alot of times we see 98-100%. Laural, my wife has a beautiful bicycle she could ride too, but even though she is very physically fit, she still drives :-(

[rkk]

For those who want to get the best possible mileage, maybe even hypermiling here is the place to go.

 

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1510

[nsteblay]

For those who want to get the best possible mileage, maybe even hypermiling here is the place to go.

 

http://www.cleanmpg....read.php?t=1510

 

Awesome article! Thanks.

 

Here is one I found regarding hypermiling with the C-Max. http://www.examiner.com/article/2013-ford-c-max-epa-rated-at-47-mpg-first-drive-gets-60-mpg

 

Nick

Edited November 22, 2012 by nsteblay

[salprint]

I also do that method...and my 30 mile trip to work everyday has been averaging over the 47 mpg that the car is rated at.

[RaPieR]

I along with many others have had some frustration with the lack of meeting the EPA MPG for the C-Max. I've been trying all sorts of different techniques for achieving better mileage. I had a breakthrough this afternoon.

 

The 2 techniques I've decided are required to get the EPA mileage.

 

Pulse and Glide

 

The trick to increasing mileage as much as possible is to be in EV mode. I was attempting to stay in EV mode as I was accelerating from stops or slow traffic by babying the gas pedal. What I've discovered is if you accelerate to your desired speed quickly (hopefully the speed limit :)) and then totally let up on the gas EV will kick in. Immediately after EV kicks in resume pushing on the gas peddle being careful not to engage the gas engine again. I then glide as long as I can in EV mode. I repeat this process whenever necessary.

 

Brake Early and Long

 

The brake system does a good job of recharging the battery. The trick here is to use it as often as possible. I have been breaking much earlier, steadier, and for as long of a time as I could.

 

Results

 

Before I was at best getting just about 40 MPG.

 

Using the new technique I drove to the dealership from my house this afternoon in mixed traffic (hills, freeway and stop lights). I was easily keeping up with the traffic. I actually was accelerating to the speed limit faster than those behind me. I think the CVT allows for some pretty quick takeoffs. I averaged over 50 MPG for the 26 mile trip.

 

I then had two small trips to pick up some pies for a church social tonight, stopped at church to drop them off, and then came back home. For the small trips (about 10 miles total) I was 47 - 50 MPG.

 

I am going to track now for the next week and will report back. The great thing is Ford has produced an interface that allows me to see what is happening under the hood and that trains me to drive more efficiently. The capability is there in the car I just need to learn how to take advantage of it.

 

There are other challenges I see coming. For one living in Minnesota means the gas engine will need to kick in just to keep the car warm. This will undoubtedly impact mileage. Also snow packed slippery roads won't help. I am glad we've had a few warm days and I was able to easily make the EPA estimates with proper driving techniques. I am feeling much better about the car and driving in the right lane.

 

Nick

 

 

What speeds are you using this technique? Below 60MPH or higher?

 

I'm assuming below 62MPH to remain in EV mode, then maintain that speed in gas mode to recharge the battery and repeat once the battery is fully charged?

[AgentCMAX]

I've had my first fill up since I purchased the C-Max two weeks ago and I got 46.2 mpg (posted on fuelly.com). This is with about 50% city/hwy and going at max hwy speed of about 62-65mph. I was driving essentially the same as you...coming up to speed limit and then backing off on the gas until the EV mode kicks in. I also try to stay below 2K on the Tach when starting from a stop position (as long as I don't impede traffic behind me). On some city routes less than 5 mile, I was seeing 80+ mpg (but I think this is due to the slight downhill slope. So if I had to go back the same route, I'd probably get a combined mpg of 60+ mpg or so). So far on my second full tank, the mpg has dropped down to 40+ mpg. I think this is due to not being has concious about my driving. Anyway, good post!

Edited November 23, 2012 by AgentCMAX

[xSZYDx]

The push&glide technique works wonders. This car was made for it. After discovering this thread I now get 50-52mpg on my 13 mile commute to work.. 108 miles into the tank and not even to 3/4.. range comp says 340 til empty

[seattlerain]

I have also tried this with some success. It works on most trips; but not all. On my shorter trips to work/back it works pretty well. Difference from 34 - 39MPG. On my long trips that I take a few times a week (15 mile 70MPH zone, 70 miles 60 MPH zone) I decided to change my strategy and just drive the speed limit (60 in 60 vs 66, and 70 in 70 vs. 74). Difference was pretty big; jumped from 32MPG to 39MPG on that trip. I'm up over 3K now, and I'm starting to notice a bit better battery usage, but maybe that's just my punch / go techniques; I do this on the freeway too; I'll bump it up to 65 when it's already shifted to gas mode and let the Cruise Control take it back down to 60 or so. The biggest draw on the EV mode is gravity. If all routes were downhill this car would absolutely rule.

What I'm tired of hearing / seeing though (and I'm sure many of you can also agree) is the excuse of the 47MPG is an EPA estimate. My salesperson (multiple actually @ 3 different Ford Dealers were certainly selling that feature). While that is correct, go to Ford.com and look @ the CMAX site. Look @ Motortrends and all of the other reviews out there noting this as a 47MPG City, and 47MPG Highway, so 47/47 combined. Ford does advertise this, and with the exception of one person on Fuelly.com, no one is getting +/=47MPG, and most people are in the 30's. This was a major contributor to me buying the car. I was going to buy a Prius and found out about the CMAX. I prefer to buy American when it's a good product. Everyone I talked to said Ford is great, everyone loves them. So, I'm hoping that the geeks @ Ford can figure out a tuning mechanism to get us all a bit closer to 47MPG. I'm sure this car could do 47MPG in Las Vegas (Flat / Warm). But anywhere else in the country, I'm not seeing how that is going to meet it's EPA standard.

My wife and I are looking if we should just get the Energi, but after the hit we'd likely take it's not going to payout. The cost per mile goes from .10 to .08 based on our math.

[mbedit]

I had a similar experince as the OP. My miliage seemed sporadic through the break-in period, but once I put 1000 miles on it, I took it on a road trip to see how it performed.

 

I drove it 400 miles, and got an average MPG of 40. The Road had a nice differentials of speeds, from 35 MPG to 70 MPG. From Observing the fuel mpg, it seems the that at higher speeds, 70 MPG, the milage drops pretty significantly, around 36 MPG, but when I had to slow down, or even stop, I started using the push and glide method the OP talks about, and the MPG shot way up to between 47 and 50 MPG.

 

In fact, I had an appointment once I got back from my road test, and after refueling and driving through town and back it reported 49 MPG on a 20 mile round trip.

 

On the road, the sweet spot seemed to be between 60 and 65 MPG, as the EV seemed to be able to charge and provided enough kick to assist and the MPG appeared to be around 40 MPG, once I Picked it up to 70+ as mentioned the miliage did seem to drop another 4 to 5 MPG.

 

I purchased the vehical hoping to average 38 to 40 MPG, and once hrough the break-in period it seems on course to deliver. Getting the 49 MPG on a town trip actually exceeeded my expectations.

 

I've tried both 87 and 94 octane gas, and don't see any difference between them, so I think I'm just throwning money away with the 94. The biggest difference, as the manual says, is how much ethenol is in the blend.

 

One thing that still has me confused, is everytime I've fueled up, the amount of fuel hasn't matched what the computer reports was expended. If some times it were over and others under that would make sense to me, but the c-max amount has always been under by about 1/2 a gal to the reported amount pumped... which makes me wonder wheres the extra 1/2 gal of gas going? I plan to refuel at teh same station / pump several times to eliminate variables that could simply be pump, or grade at teh station.

[stranger267]

I got promised 47 mpg on freeway.

 

Recipie is simple:

- Premium gas

- Good tire pressure (I set up 39).

- Good weather

- No climate cintrol

- Cruise control in eco mode on 63 mph (not 65!)

 

And then it shows 46 - 48 mpg (I got 47.8 but had few miules on the city).

 

If cruise on 65 mph (+1 mile) it shows about 38 - 39 becasue EV mode is blocked on >= 65.

 

I believe that Ford must update software to allow EV moide up to 70 - 75 mph, else this 47 mpg became almost useless on California freeways (traffic speeds 70 - 75 mph). Of course, it will not show 47 on 70 mph but it can definitely show 43 - 45.

Edited December 1, 2012 by stranger267

[darrelld]

I got promised 47 mpg on freeway.

 

Recipie is simple:

- Premium gas

- Good tire pressure (I set up 39).

- Good weather

- No climate cintrol

- Cruise control in eco mode on 63 mph (not 65!)

 

And then it shows 46 - 48 mpg (I got 47.8 but had few miules on the city).

 

If cruise on 65 mph (+1 mile) it shows about 38 - 39 becasue EV mode is blocked on >= 65.

 

I believe that Ford must update software to allow EV moide up to 70 - 75 mph, else this 47 mpg became almost useless on California freeways (traffic speeds 70 - 75 mph). Of course, it will not show 47 on 70 mph but it can definitely show 43 - 45.

I know the Energi is capable of speeds up to 85 mph in EV, not certain why Ford chose 62 mph except to ace the EPA test.

Edited December 1, 2012 by darrelld

[Arthur]

I will have to try the method of get up & go,  I live in Maine in the Cold country, and I find the EV will not come on until the engine has warmed up.

Along with living in the hills, pulls down any chance of super mileage. Got 46.8 on a 200 mile trip yesterday though. Been running about 38 to 41 around town.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Arthur

[RaPieR]

I know the Energi is capable of speeds up to 85 mph in EV, not certain why Ford chose 62 mph except to ace the EPA test.

I'd guess that lower speed limit is probably because of the smaller battery capacity of the hybrid compared to the energi.  That would be great if a simple ECU update could change that but it's probably a limit set because of the smaller battery capacity.

[stranger267]

I'd guess that lower speed limit is probably because of the smaller battery capacity of the hybrid compared to the energi.  That would be great if a simple ECU update could change that but it's probably a limit set because of the smaller battery capacity.

Probably it was set becasue of lower EV power (remember, Energy was designed to run on EV power only for the first 10 - 20 miles, while noin energy use EV only occasionly).

 

But even this should not prevent system from using EV on fast speeds. There are uphills and downhills, and when I ride below 63, car run ICU on uphills (and use excessive power if any to charge the battery, as ICU definitely has the best economy mode and try to run in such mode, and sometimes it provides more power then required for the drive), and then it switch to EV mode on downhills. Rememer, even when ICU runs on idle, it still provides heat and use a gas, so turning it off makes sense. If we run downhill below 63 mph, and grade is good enough, car stops ICU; but if speed is above 63 mph, it continue to run ICU so spending gas for nothing.

[MikeB]

There was a comment in one of the automotive magazine reviews that the Energi gets lower mileage than the Hybrid partly because it has a different final drive gear ratio. I suspect that the gear ratio on the Energi was chosen because it allows the electric motor to reach 85mph, even though it reduces the mpg in gas mode. And honestly, I think that's the right choice: drivers in the Energi are very focused on performance during the first 20 electric miles and slightly less focused on performance for the gas miles. Everything is a tradeoff in these vehicles, there's lots of good engineers trying to figure out which solution is optimal.

[C-MaxJaxon]

Page 183 of the Owners Manual says why EV mode is disabled at high speed:

 

"Why does my engine never shut down above 60 mph (96 km/h)? The engine is required to turn on above this speed to protect the transmission hardware. (For C-MAX Energi vehicles, you can travel up to 85 mph [137 km/h] in EV mode.)"

 

I thought the lower final drive ratio in the Energi was to improve acceleration with the extra battery weight.

[darrelld]

 

I believe the electric motors current load determines if EV can be used at higher speeds. I also believe the same electric motors are used in the Energi and C-Max but the lower gears of the Energi act as torque multipliers in helping the Energi sustain higher speeds. I tested this on interstate with the ICE running. Next I slipped in behind an 18 wheeler to draft and almost immediately EV mode engaged. I then pulled out from behind the 18 wheeler and the ICE reengaged.

Edited December 2, 2012 by darrelld