From Speed6ing 2 C-Maxing Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Ok, so in Empower mode, you can see a threshold for when you will go from EV mode to ICE on mode. And the Brake Coach + Fuel economy graphs give you feedback on how you've done in braking, cruising and accelerating, but is there anything be it built in (which I don't see) or say in a scanguage, the can tell you the threshold for when you go from Regenerative braking to using the regular brakes? I guess I want to be able to learn what the maximum amount of braking force is that I can use with the regenerative brakes so I can stop in the shortest distance while generating the most amount of charge for the battery. 2016EnergiGuy and jes_ma 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robodog61 Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Isn't that the brake coach? I mean, if you are 100%, then no friction brakes. If you are 85%, then 15% of the stopping force was by the friction brakes. That is how I interpret it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
From Speed6ing 2 C-Maxing Posted December 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Yes, but you get that after you're done braking. I was hoping for something that would tell me... "a little harder and you'll be using friction" or "you're using both friction and regen" just like there is a threshold for EV / ICE in empower mode. 2016EnergiGuy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoBro2 Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Maybe Ford guesses that if you're applying the brakes, your eyes should be on the road and not on a dashboard display? I know that sounds harsh, but there are so many visual distractions already and after some time you eventually get the feel for how much brake pedal pressure will get you in the 90%+ range. What I'd like to see is the brake coach display when you slow down *almost* to a stop and then start accelerating again. A lot of my fringe suburban driving has almost-stop-and-go conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) ... Edited September 7, 2013 by Plus 3 Golfer darrelld and HannahWCU 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 There's no data and algoithm to anticipate the real-time driving conditions. So, you get a message that says "ease up, you've reached the regen threshold" (and you do ease up on braking) only to hit the car in front of you. I doubt Ford's attorneys would buy into such a feature. This makes sense. Would you really want to see an "ease up, already!" display when you're braking in an emergency situation? I didn't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Honda advertises (with an annoyingly stupid ad campaign) their collision avoidance system I think in the new Accord, where the car detects something and helps the people stop, and they look in the back seat at their kid... Ford could put in a similar system where if it detects a rapidly approaching object it doesn't put up the regen threshold display or something like that. Although in the rainy season here I have enough tree debris coating my car after a single week that I get phantom beeps from the C-Max bumper radar deals that I probably wouldn't trust something more important to work in leaves, sleet, snow, dust, or mud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelld Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 I've had my C-MAX for 3 days and 130 miles and have "calibrated my foot" to give a 100% score virtually every time. I understand you're seeking help in optimizing the "game". But It takes anticipation and good hand - eye cordination to "hit the ball" solidly virtually every time. There's no data and algoithm to anticipate the real-time driving conditions. So, you get a message that says "ease up, you've reached the regen threshold" (and you do ease up on braking) only to hit the car in front of you. I doubt Ford's attorneys would buy into such a feature. Hello and welcome. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Hello and welcome. :)Thanks, took your advice and finally drove one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelld Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Thanks, took your advice and finally drove one. They give you a good trade for the TDI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 They give you a good trade for the TDI? They started at $13k for my 2009 TDI with 70k+ miles (plus needed a new windshield, some curb rash, scratched rear bumper). I eventually got them up to $14k for it. I also saved $1400 in taxes on the CMAX by trading. I doubt I could have sold it privately for $15.6 plus the hassle. Since this CMAX exactly met are desires (base SEL in white with tan leather) and with the cash back expiring soon, I took the trade rather than wait. I bought it with xplan pricing, free window tint, and $1k in cash incentives. Sticker was over $33k which included a nearly $2k market adjustment adder, $599 lifetime tint already on car, $899 alarm system which they removed (or maybe never had installed), + another $699 dealer add on for something I can't recall right now. I guess some will pay sticker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelld Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 They started at $13k for my 2009 TDI with 70k+ miles (plus needed a new windshield, some curb rash, scratched rear bumper). I eventually got them up to $14k for it. I also saved $1400 in taxes on the CMAX by trading. I doubt I could have sold it privately for $15.6 plus the hassle. Since this CMAX exactly met are desires (base SEL in white with tan leather) and with the cash back expiring soon, I took the trade rather than wait. I bought it with xplan pricing, free window tint, and $1k in cash incentives. Sticker was over $33k which included a nearly $2k market adjustment adder, $599 lifetime tint already on car, $899 alarm system which they removed (or maybe never had installed), + another $699 dealer add on for something I can't recall right now. I guess some will pay sticker. You made an excellent deal. I have no regrets about trading in my 2010 Jetta TDI. I asked the wife if she missed the Jetta any and she didn't hesitate to say "No". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grggwlkr Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Maybe they could make the blue circle symbol turn red when brake pads engage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAZ Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Maybe they could make the blue circle symbol turn red when brake pads engage?Until then you can feel when the pads engage: there is a noticeable 'grab' at that point...at least for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Until then you can feel when the pads engage: there is a noticeable 'grab' at that point...at least for me.Exactly, it's very obvious after braking and monitoring brake coach results for a while what needs to be done to get 100% brake score. And again, I seriously doubt Ford will put any real-time indication of ones braking performance in the brake coach for the reasons I stated above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grggwlkr Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 If Ford doesn't want you distracted while braking, why put the blue regen graphic in the display at all. I don't think blue to red when brake pads engage is that much more distracting.. In an OH CRAP moment, who is looking at the dash anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Who looks at the blue swirling display anyways until after one is stopped to see their score (which I believe is Ford's intent). One needs to focus on anticipating stops, generally slowing down prior to braking, and then with practice apply the brakes gradually. I really don't find it difficult to get 100%. Like, Jaz says I can feel the difference once the brakes grab and hence get a lower score. In fact, my wife can call the score within a few % points when I brake too hard - generally because I did not anticipate a light change, didn't want to slow down in anticipation of a change with traffic behind me, or exiting a freeway with a short exit ramp with traffic behind me. I don't want to piss off the driver's behind me. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grggwlkr Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I do. pomtrey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I look at it all the time. We have big hills and I like to try and stay in regen as long as possible... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) I thought we were talking about the brake coach when one is applying the brakes which is where safety is more of an issue than going up and down hills. I fail to see any logical reason to put achieving a 100% brake score above safety or maximizing ones brake energy recovery going down hill. Again, the CU have no way of knowing why one is applying the brakes. I would think when going down hill you are braking for safety reasons. Otherwise, why apply the brake at all. :) Edited February 27, 2013 by Plus 3 Golfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 We are talking about the spinning wheel on the battery showing when regen is active, not the brake coach. I look at them all the time. I can not feel a difference between brakes and pure regen, there is no extra grab for me. My lifetime average score is 96% and the only time I don't get 99% or better is during rush hour when traffic stops unexpectedly or of course panic stops. But I have had occasions where I made a nice easy gradual stop but only got 92 or 88 and I don't get why it was that low. It would be nice to have the spinning circle turn red when brake pads are engaged. Why I mentioned hills is because on hills you don't get a display of braking score. So Inlike to watch my regen when descending - just because I do. It's fun. It would be nice to have an indicator of when I drop from pure regen to regen and brake pads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I didn't mean "coach" as in the "coach display" but the after the fact brake score that is shown. The blue spinning wheel as far as I know only comes on when you apply the brake. I can feel a point when pushing the brake pedal where it appears the brakes begin to engage (grab may be too harsh a term) since the rate of slowing down increases more than I would have expected. Every time this happens I never achieve 100%. The generator can only slow the car down so much. I then conclude that the brakes are being applied. So, it's definitely a "learned" association rather than feeling the brakes "grab". That's why I said initially "It takes anticipation and good hand - eye coordination to "hit the ball" solidly virtually every time" and later "I can feel the difference once the brakes grab and hence get a lower score". The difference is the rate of slowing down. I understand the point on the hills as I'd also like to know what my score was when I don't come to a complete stop. The question is does the overall brake score include these times when one applies the brakes but doesn't "see" a brake score. I would assume it would include all applications of the brake. What might be nice for hills is a +- button / shifter that would kick in regen in stages (assuming energy storage available) - like Tiptronic mode for changing gears on many transmissions. This would also help in slowing down to a stop as there would be no guessing as how hard to push the brake pedal to get that 100%. I had originally thought that maybe "L" included that as additional braking but AFAIK "L" only engages the engine for engine braking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 With 15k mi on the car I know what my brake score is going to be, My Lifetime is 98%. I can tell when mech. brakes are being applied, it feels a little different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grggwlkr Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Valkraider I'm glad you get it.. Wish list stuff. Press brake too hard spinny wheel turns red. Wasting kinetic energy. Dog runs in front or car pulls out, who cares slam that petal down. Not everyone has 20 year old sensation in their feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I didn't mean "coach" as in the "coach display" but the after the fact brake score that is shown. The blue spinning wheel as far as I know only comes on when you apply the brake.The score only shows up if you come to a complete stop. The score will not show up when you are just applying the brake on a descent. We are specifically talking about the blue spinning wheel that shows when regenerative braking is happening as a result of pressing the brake pedal. It should turn red or yellow or something when you exceed the regenerative slowing capacity and begin using brake pads. I am sure in a perfect world I could tell when the pads grab as well. But between rough roads and other vehicle feedbacks - I generally can't tell the difference with any certainty. I don't even know why this sort of thing would be debated. Make it an option and let those of us who want it - use it. If you have super spidey-sense and don't want to use it, that's cool too. I never understand the need to debate customization. If it seems to complex, hide the settings in an "advanced" menu, make it easy to reset to defaults, and make the use acknowledge that they understand these are advanced settings by pressing "OK" before entering the menu. There, due diligence done. It's the same reason I support jail breaking iPhones. I think Apple does a great job with UI. But sometimes I wish they would at least give us an advanced option to let those of us who know how have a little more control. I like a well built product - but I also believe in letting users have a little control if they want it. Ford could give us more data as an option, they have it and they log it. Let us see it if we want. ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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