ptjones Posted January 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I question the accuracy of all MPG improvement claims posted online since it's very difficult for all the variables to remain constant or be adjusted for. Things like starting engine temperature, outside temperature, wind speed and direction, traffic, etc. all change between test runs with and without a mod in place. Then there's the possibility of the tester consciously or unconsciously behaving differently during the tests and getting the results they are hoping for. Doing a double blind test like scientists do would be necessary for a completely objective test.C-MaxJaxon did you install the foam pieces yet? Everyone that did, improved there mileage 4-6mpg. Given what you are saying there should be some people getting no improvement and we aren't seeing that.I did use a scientific approach and averaged my many test and my graphs show it. I'm so confident with my results I will ship you a prototype cover set and you can send them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-MaxJaxon Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 C-MaxJaxon did you install the foam pieces yet? Everyone that did, improved there mileage 4-6mpg. Given what you are saying there should be some people getting no improvement and we aren't seeing that.I did use a scientific approach and averaged my many test and my graphs show it. I'm so confident with my results I will ship you a prototype cover set and you can send them back.I still have just the middle grill taped off. I've thought about taping the lower too, or trying the foam, or making my own acrylic/velcro covers, but the weather changes so much from one day to the next, that it's hard to tell if my tape has made any difference in my mileage so far. I need to do some more formal tests with the tape to see if it really is an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I would be interested in grill covers for the winter time but I am not leaving them on inambient temps over 60degrees. I think they would be a waste of money at $50 and a big waste of money at $100. I am not going to relocate my license plate every time I want to take the cover on or off. But my basic belief after 20 years of automobile, motorcycle, and boat customization: if a simple sheet of plastic could give the vehicle 4 to 6 mpg gain: Ford would have done so at the factory and killed the Prius in the market. Do we honestly think that a hobbiest with some lexan and a dremel tool can out engineer the professionals at Ford? Do we honestly think that Ford wouldn't jump at the chance to add 4 to 6 mpg on their flagship hybrid? Finally, I have 1000 miles on my Energi. 690 of them are 100% electric at less than 40mph. It would take me three lifetimes to make back my money on a $100 piece of plastic. Additionally, I am worried about how it will look after one season of driving in winter weather. Is it going to trap all kinds of leaf muck and pine needles in there? Is it going to yellow or cloud up? All in all, without very controlled tests we have nothing but anecdotal evidence that it will even return the claimed mileage. I have seen lots of snake-oil come and go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I still have just the middle grill taped off. I've thought about taping the lower too, or trying the foam, or making my own acrylic/velcro covers, but the weather changes so much from one day to the next, that it's hard to tell if my tape has made any difference in my mileage so far. I need to do some more formal tests with the tape to see if it really is an improvement.Like I said I can send you the Proto set. You need to aerodynamicly block off both grills and the difference is very obvious. This is not a small improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I would be interested in grill covers for the winter time but I am not leaving them on inambient temps over 60degrees. I think they would be a waste of money at $50 and a big waste of money at $100. I am not going to relocate my license plate every time I want to take the cover on or off. But my basic belief after 20 years of automobile, motorcycle, and boat customization: if a simple sheet of plastic could give the vehicle 4 to 6 mpg gain: Ford would have done so at the factory and killed the Prius in the market. Do we honestly think that a hobbiest with some lexan and a dremel tool can out engineer the professionals at Ford? Do we honestly think that Ford wouldn't jump at the chance to add 4 to 6 mpg on their flagship hybrid? Finally, I have 1000 miles on my Energi. 690 of them are 100% electric at less than 40mph. It would take me three lifetimes to make back my money on a $100 piece of plastic. Additionally, I am worried about how it will look after one season of driving in winter weather. Is it going to trap all kinds of leaf muck and pine needles in there? Is it going to yellow or cloud up? All in all, without very controlled tests we have nothing but anecdotal evidence that it will even return the claimed mileage. I have seen lots of snake-oil come and go...In your situation at 40mph there wouldn't be much aerodynamic improvement but there would be ICE improvement. Most people would think three pieces of plastic dirt cheap for $50. The material cost is over $25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bymaine Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Paul, I am very interested in a set of grill covers if you still have a set. I read all the threads here, and don't see any negative aspects to installing these covers, especially up here in New England for winter-tme use. With my temporary foam covers in place, I have consistently gained 4.4 mpg over the past week. That's a big improvement, and very pleasing to see 40+ mpg trips consistently - even with cold starts, short trips, heater on, and mixed highway/local routes. Since installation last week, we have not had above-freezing temps (probably the coldest week of the season so far), but I am showing my best mileage yet, due to grill covering. I have 1400 miles on my odometer. It may take a little while to pay off the grill covers, but it is a big step in the right direction, has been a fun and informative project, and continues to challenge me to increase my mileage by driving smarter and understanding how this thing works. Coming from an F150, this has been rewarding challenge, and sure convinces me that the CMax was the right choice each time I pass the gas station with no need to refuel. Seems like the F150 was using $100+ each fill up, and was killing us. I think it would be helpful if someone with a scangauge could post a few corresponding water temp readings to the markings on the water temp indicator on the CMax display, so we have an idea of what temps we are running at. ie low mark, 1/3 gauge. 1/2 gauge. I know it would not be 100% accurate, but a ballpark figure would be helpful. Also I have seen somewhere a suggestion about an engine block heater. Has anyone tried this? Again, any tool in the tool box. If this assists in getting up to temp quicker, it could be yet another improvement. Thanks for all your research and time invested into the project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Paul, I am very interested in a set of grill covers if you still have a set. I read all the threads here, and don't see any negative aspects to installing these covers, especially up here in New England for winter-tme use. With my temporary foam covers in place, I have consistently gained 4.4 mpg over the past week. That's a big improvement, and very pleasing to see 40+ mpg trips consistently - even with cold starts, short trips, heater on, and mixed highway/local routes. Since installation last week, we have not had above-freezing temps (probably the coldest week of the season so far), but I am showing my best mileage yet, due to grill covering. I have 1400 miles on my odometer. It may take a little while to pay off the grill covers, but it is a big step in the right direction, has been a fun and informative project, and continues to challenge me to increase my mileage by driving smarter and understanding how this thing works. Coming from an F150, this has been rewarding challenge, and sure convinces me that the CMax was the right choice each time I pass the gas station with no need to refuel. Seems like the F150 was using $100+ each fill up, and was killing us. I think it would be helpful if someone with a scangauge could post a few corresponding water temp readings to the markings on the water temp indicator on the CMax display, so we have an idea of what temps we are running at. ie low mark, 1/3 gauge. 1/2 gauge. I know it would not be 100% accurate, but a ballpark figure would be helpful. Also I have seen somewhere a suggestion about an engine block heater. Has anyone tried this? Again, any tool in the tool box. If this assists in getting up to temp quicker, it could be yet another improvement. Thanks for all your research and time invested into the project! I have a couple of Grill Cover sets left at $50 then the price goes up to $100. you can email me at paul@star-instruments.com The oil pan heater is also my idea and I'm going to install a Wolverine Model 9 on my car, there avalible on amazon for $56. I tried a bigger one but it didn't fit the oil pan, It was to big and made the ICE run hotter at Hwy speeds. I need to figure out the right display mode to show everything so I can monitor WT. Maybe today I will have some temp info. We are starting to ship covers today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donhak Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I just installed the grill covers yesterday, 2/2. Because the license holder has one rivet into the bumper with the other two in the grill, I elected to cutout around the license holder. This was fairly easy to do and leaves the holder in place. The back of the holder fits into the grill and is not flat on back. I could have used the covers last weekend when lows were to down to -16F and did not get above zero on Sunday. When the ICE would shut off, the engine would cool very quickly with a drop of over 3 mpg on the tank average from the cold spell. The temperatures have since moderated and are currently staying around freezing. I do not have enough miles with the covers in place yet to tell the affect on mileage. What I have seen is that the water temp gets up the mid-range and stays there more consistently, which over the long term should mean more opportunity to run in EV mode. I uploaded a picture to my gallery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bymaine Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Hi donhak, I did the same exact cutout with my grill covers. Very easy to cut, and I am getting 3 - 4 more miles to the gallon here in Maine, and it certainly has been cold. Just be careful going thru a carwash with the covers, last time I went thru, the high pressure rinse removed the grill covers unexpectedly. I have had mine on for a month, and have had no problems. I too was reluctant to drill out the rivets in my front bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bymaine Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Tried to add some pix of the grill cover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hi donhak, I did the same exact cutout with my grill covers. Very easy to cut, and I am getting 3 - 4 more miles to the gallon here in Maine, and it certainly has been cold. Just be careful going thru a carwash with the covers, last time I went thru, the high pressure rinse removed the grill covers unexpectedly. I have had mine on for a month, and have had no problems. I too was reluctant to drill out the rivets in my front bracket. It only takes a couple of minutes to drill out plastic rivets and you can always reinstall with sheet metal screws in a couple of minutes. It sounds like we need to add a couple more tabs at the corners to hold them down better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdii Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 I took ptjones advice and made a set of covers for the Fusion I had. They did nothing to improve the fuel economy on the car, that thing was in serious need of help, but I can say, boy were my feet warm! I had a scan gauge hooked up and before the covers, the water temps were 140-170, after the covers rock solid at 182*. There were a couple times where it got over 200*, but it was on warmer days only. I did the same using clear sheet plastic, but used the lesser priced Lexan since it was only an experiment. When I got rid of the Fusion, I sent the covers to another Fusion owner, hybridbear, and he has them on his, and did notice an improvement. Here are a few pics of them, I used cable ties to secure them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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