Who is going to jump to the Escape Hybrid?

[fbov]

MotorWeek review of the hybrid.

 

https://www.motorweek.org/reviews/road_tests/2020-ford-escape

First time I've seen an EV power of 88Kw published for the Escape, same as the C-max. 

[stratosurfer]

Not surprising, given the rolling acceleration... C&D found the Escape's 30-50 MPH is 20% better, telling me that Toyota has tuned the ICE operating point toward efficiency and sluggish throttle response while Ford has tuned it for drivability. 

 

Sounds familiar?

http://www.winonarenewableenergy.com/uploads/5/3/6/7/5367335/why_c-max_and_fusion_hybrids_are_getting_low_mpgs_2_printed.pdf

 

RAV4's HVB technology rules it out. 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

This is a good point, I really enjoy the acceleration the C-Max provides in the 60 to 70MPH range (vehicle passing) I just drove 600 miles all around Texas for the Thanksgiving holiday 4-day and had to do some Slow-Boater Passing. That punch in getting around and past a long line of vehicles is actually quite impressive. I -know- the F-250’s tailgating me when I make my move around the line of the Slow-Boats are impressed how fast this little car makes the jump around. I would not want to give this acceleration up in my next vehicle down the road. I hope the Escape will have this power in this range. I will give up some MPG’s to have this power, this is a safety issue to me. My wife’s 2013 Honda Pilot is quite de-tuned for MPG’s in passing in comparison to the C-Max. I’ll take the power, I can get MPG’s back when I’m working in town.

Edited December 4, 2019 by stratosurfer

[C-MaxA2]

My two Prius owning brother drove my C-Max and while he wouldn't say ANYTHING about the C-Max, he was clearly shocked by the acceleration (I made sure it was off the 'Eco' setting).  I ended up telling him he didn't need to jam the pedal to the floor for some speed. 

[ptjones]

I will be driving Escape Hybrid tomorrow on the FWY and I will be able to see how it does.

Window sticker: http://www.windowsticker.forddirect.com/windowsticker.pdf?token=e%2FmJ6576sokGzeOn3GfIHIb06Ex4RMUZQQvbRYoa%2BYTepqA86DETYu29OKbxNfkxzPpKiBx%2Fq4HUKZwzSQRdKFY6O22a9EwUg30KIKNATp1Zv1MQEVzeoeIpu0wRyhvyN4vLJUh8Jm1B%2FRDdv0hrdXuAkTTmTkHvPe5HMn1FuzM%3D

 

Paul

[plus 3 golfer]

I will be driving Escape Hybrid tomorrow on the FWY and I will be able to see how it does.

Window sticker: http://www.windowsticker.forddirect.com/windowsticker.pdf?token=e%2FmJ6576sokGzeOn3GfIHIb06Ex4RMUZQQvbRYoa%2BYTepqA86DETYu29OKbxNfkxzPpKiBx%2Fq4HUKZwzSQRdKFY6O22a9EwUg30KIKNATp1Zv1MQEVzeoeIpu0wRyhvyN4vLJUh8Jm1B%2FRDdv0hrdXuAkTTmTkHvPe5HMn1FuzM%3D

 

Paul

Tell us how the cabin noise level compares to the C-Max at freeway speeds.

[ptjones]

I took the FEH Titanium for a ride on the FWY without Hypermiling, but under speed limit some of the time.  I'm trying to figure out how the displays work which are vaguely similar to CMAX.  Not as much Hybrid info as 2013 CMAX. Got 39.9 mpg's for 13.7 mile trip and I know I can do better when I figure out everything.  The back space is 6" wider and about 8" longer than CMAX. I would say cabin noise is simiar the CMAX.

Steering is very responsive.

 

Paul

Edited December 2, 2019 by ptjones

[ptjones]

I used my ScanGaugeII and watched the SOC which was interesting in that it would charge quickly up to 66% SOC and motors have more power to accelerate quickly and maintain high speed. Not sure what percentage of HVB is use able.  At this point I don't know the most efficient way to drive this car yet, it's going to that awhile to learn. :headscratch: The regen seems to be more aggressive and I wasn't able to watch WT too much, but I didn't see it get up to operating temps.  The only way to get the Heads Up Display is by getting the Moon Roof, a $2000 option, definitely not a must have option. :sad: Without Moon Roof and Special paint the price is $33,400 for the top of the line Titanium option. I also got the OM to check out.

Still no info on Plugin.

 

Paul

Edited December 3, 2019 by ptjones

[fbov]

Profiles with template.pdf

In the FWIW department, here are profiles of the newest Escape, RAV4 and CR-V superimposed with a minimum drag car profile. The idea is that the closer a car is to the profile, the better its chances for low aerodynamic drag coefficient, Cd. I'd put Escape first, RAV4 last (roof is too flat).

 

Paul, thanks for clarifying that the car you're testing is the most expensive FWD Escape Hybrid you can buy. Add $1500 for the max AWD price. 

 

Do you have the owner's' manual?

 

Sounds like different algorithms....

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

[ptjones]

I looked the OM and I consider it border line useless as far as the Hybrid goes. :sad:   They should have carried over the CMAX/FFH display so there wouldn't be any learning curve. It's strange that there is no info on the Hybrid Display and what it means.  Any Hybrid info is about Hybrids in general.You Tube video would be nice.

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

Frank, nice comparison - what do the profile numbers mean?

 

As to total drag, the RAV4 has to win because, when they see it coming, the air molecules will literally jump out of the way because it is so ugly!

(Corollary to the explanation I've heard as to how helicopters can fly - "they're so ugly the earth repels them".)

[C-MaxJaxon]

How about ground clearance & turning radius.

How did the braking feel?

 

 

+500 on the turning radius

 

Escape is 38.8 ft and CR-V is 37.4, according to KBB. The C-Max was 38.4 ft. I miss the 35.5 ft of my old 2005 Cadillac CTS.

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/honda-cr-v-vs-ford-escape-comparison/2100008065/

[SnowStorm]

Well, well, after hearing my wife say "I'll never buy another Ford" for a month or so now, tonight she said maybe we could go test drive the Escape - "just for fun".  OK, perhaps we will (but I still want full electric).

[stratosurfer]

I hate to say this, but for the moment I’m smitten by the Cybertruck...

If Musk would only build a HYBRID version I’d have already reserved one.

It may pass, not many Tesla Chargers in West Texas...

[zalusky]

I hate to say this, but for the moment I’m smitten by the Cybertruck...

If Musk would only build a HYBRID version I’d have already reserved one.

It may pass, not many Tesla Chargers in West Texas...

if only he would build something that looks like an CUV with a full vertical hatch and not another something that looks like a sedan.

[fbov]

Frank, nice comparison - what do the profile numbers mean?

If you look real close, I have measurement bars and fiducial lines in place to measure wheelbase, length and height. The box contains the measurement from the image and the spec, so I can compare scale. The next three numbers are the ratio of the spec/measurement. Ideally, the three are equal, (they're not) and at the same value for all three cars (they're not). But they're close... I didn't match scale. 

 

The last number is the length of the profile image file, a measure of profile scale chosen to match the windshield-roofline contour. The C-Max looks a lot more like the Escape than the other two. No scale data here. 

 

What I see is a cargo/aero tradeoff; the squarer vehicle will have larger EPA cargo capacity. Aerodynamics comes at the price of how many boxes you can fit. 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[C-MaxJaxon]

Video version of the MotorWeek review.

 

 

Raiti's Rides video review.

 

[zalusky]

Well he wouldn’t commit to whether it’s a worthy competitor to the RAV4 or the CRV.

 

OMG no wireless charging that is a real downer if not a potential deal breaker.  Yea I know I could probably get a wireless charging pad but seriously.

[C-MaxJaxon]

The prices of the Escape plug-in were posted recently.Base model is $34,235, SEL is $36,815 and Titanium is $40,030. The federal tax credit should be over $6,000. Coming to dealers in the spring.

 

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1126501_2020-ford-escape-plug-in-hybrid-price-set-will-arrive-before-toyota-rav4-prime

 

[ptjones]

I don't know where they get their pricing from, Dealers don't have it yet.

 

Paul

Edited December 28, 2019 by ptjones

[Billyk24]

On 12/2/2019 at 6:48 PM, ptjones said:

I used my ScanGaugeII and watched the SOC which was interesting in that it would charge quickly up to 66% SOC and motors have more power to accelerate quickly and maintain high speed. Not sure what percentage of HVB is use able.  At this point I don't know the most efficient way to drive this car yet, it's going to that awhile to learn. :headscratch: The regen seems to be more aggressive and I wasn't able to watch WT too much, but I didn't see it get up to operating temps.  The only way to get the Heads Up Display is by getting the Moon Roof, a $2000 option, definitely not a must have option. :sad: Without Moon Roof and Special paint the price is $33,400 for the top of the line Titanium option. I also got the OM to check out.

Still no info on Plugin.

 

Paul

My 2016 RAV4 Hybrid just posted a 75% SOC tonight.   It is rumored to be as high as 80% SOC.   At 40% SOC the engine will kick on.  

[ptjones]

17 hours ago, Billyk24 said:

My 2016 RAV4 Hybrid just posted a 75% SOC tonight.   It is rumored to be as high as 80% SOC.   At 40% SOC the engine will kick on.  

I believe the Hybrid RAV 4 has a smaller NiH HVB and apparently it uses more of the HVB than the CMAX by a little.  Going downhill regen now I can get upto 70% SOC and down to 32% SOC in EV.  The difference is you can go upto 2 miles+ in EV Mode in a CMAX from a start and get to 50 mph before running out of HVB.

 

Paul

[Billyk24]

My 2016 RAV4 Hybrid has a 1.6kWh battery pack.  I have driven up to 43 mph  in EV in this vehicle but.....at low amps.  Once the vehicle exceeds 61-62 amps, it is going to kick the engine on.   My 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid was good for about 51-52 amps before the ICE would start.    This vehicle also has a button to lock it into EV mode as the CMax has.  But, there are significant limitations like 25 mph and the amps mentioned above.

[Billyk24]

If the Escape Plug in had an 4wd/AWd version , I would trade my RAV4 in for it.  

[fbov]

Ford's done something smart in my book; it looks like they made the plug-in with the same interior as the hybrid. C-max Energi owners will appreciate the lack of battery hump, and the price of using chassis space otherwise used by the rear drivetrain is reasonable when you appreciate that AWD hybrids have lower mileage than FWD. Ford expects the plug-in market to be more mileage-sensitive, perhaps? EV range is an important selling point for plug-ins. 

 

I have a 2020 Escape Hybrid AWD on order, so I might be biased. I looked at the RAV4 and it's too truck-like for me. I like Ford's AWD approach (100% can go F/R) and dislike Toyota's use of Ni-metal hydride batteries. I'm curious what they've done to raise the EPA mileage with the 2019 model year; the drivetrain specs are very similar to yours, but the mileage is similar to the Escape's. 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[Billyk24]

The 4th generation RAV4 Hybrid (2012-2018) has a net HP rating of 194 and torque of 206 ft lbs.  The fifth generation (2019+) has 219Hp.    The mileage boost is related to software changes and greater use of HVB pack.      What is interesting is with the third motor in the rear (MG3), it captures more and faster regenerative energy than my CMax does in the auto mode!    The 2016 RAV4 Hybrid navigational and sound system are not very good and my CMax is a much better.