Who is going to jump to the Escape Hybrid?

[fbov]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:30 AM, ptjones said:

AC takes a 25% hit on range on 10 mile trip and with 93*F OT.

 

Paul

That's a plug-in report I assume?

[ptjones]

I didn't notice the power usage.

I have been getting consistently 47 miles/charge, I have gone to zero only once, here is todays start with full charge.

 

 Paul

[ptjones]

On 8/27/2021 at 11:13 AM, fbov said:

That's a plug-in report I assume?

That's the difference between range before and after trip miles at the bottom of display and actual trip miles off of trip 1 display.

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

Is the "Average 5.2 mi/kWh" computed over the last trip, or since reset, or lifetime or what?  That number comes to 192 Watt-hours per mile, very good I'd say.  In thinking about electric cars in general I've been using 250 as a "round number".  Its nice to see one can do a lot better.  At least you can!

[fbov]

On 8/27/2021 at 2:46 PM, ptjones said:

That's the difference between...

Yep; you've got displays I don't. Based on what you say, is this right?

- you started with full HVB, so 56 mile range

- you drove 10 miles, expected 46 miles left

- you found the range was now 42 miles, 75% of starting range, but only 4 miles short of expectation. 

 

It sounds like AC cool-down of a hot car cost you 4 miles, about 800 Wh if you're getting 200 Wh/mile. Driving an average of 30 mph, 10 miles is a 20 minute trip, so:
800 Wh / 1/3 hr. = 2400W, 2.4kW to run AC on high.  It will be interesting to see if this is consistent, or varies with the weather/pre-heating

 

As to displays, I have numeric power displays that I don't see on the right side of yours. Mine also has a circular bar for the total power, color coded by source, similar to the speedometer's rim. You too?

Edited August 28, 2021 by fbov

[ptjones]

On 8/27/2021 at 9:44 PM, SnowStorm said:

Is the "Average 5.2 mi/kWh" computed over the last trip, or since reset, or lifetime or what?  That number comes to 192 Watt-hours per mile, very good I'd say.  In thinking about electric cars in general I've been using 250 as a "round number".  Its nice to see one can do a lot better.  At least you can!

I think I'm averaging 4.8 kWh, it goes down pretty fast going uphill and up slowly going down hill.  Range is pretty much 47 miles. The right display is similar to the Hybrid's. I'm surprised how good the plugin acceleration is in EV mode.

 

Paul

[homestead]

Paul

Does the 47 miles on EV include any coasting in neutral or drafting?

[cr08]

A bit OT: So just an additional comment on the A/C usage with my C-Max. We went to the drive-in the other night and it was about 90F and humid. Arrived with about 50% charge (Sync reported SOC, not internal) and made it about 4 hours in before it dropped to somewhere between 10-15% before it cooled off outside enough to shut off the A/C and the remainder of the charge lasted  the other 2-ish hours of the night. By my rough napkin math/guesses: With the estimated ~4.0kwh capacity I have left, that's probably around 1.5-1.7kwh use in those 4 hours, coming to around the 300-500w mark I mentioned earlier. And this was just maintaining an internal 70F pulling in the outside air.

 

So I'm still curious what kind of power usage you're seeing from the A/C in the Escape and what climate settings you are using. I can't imagine Ford regressing to some really inefficient configuration/programming for the climate control system.

 

Final and totally unrelated OT note: So above was the second time I took my C-Max to the drive-in and had it running the entire time. Something I've noticed and I think I understand what is going on is that while sitting completely still with no movement (ie: All draw on the battery, no re-gen or charging), in the upper end of the SOC the ICE kicks on a couple of times just for a very brief period of like a minute each. Lower end of the SOC it seems to be happy and doesn't kick in the ICE. It's my educated guess that it does this for cell balancing since it doesn't have regen or an EVSE to rely on and probably no way due to pack design to simply shift charge between cells deliberately.

[ptjones]

I think the reason for the big change is the computer is assuming that the kWh has changed to more kWh per mile. I set AC temp to 76*F and I'm sure the kWh/mi. goes down as temp equalizes in the car.  When I stop using the AC the range increases showing the change in efficiency.

 

Paul

[ptjones]

On 8/29/2021 at 11:49 AM, homestead said:

Paul

Does the 47 miles on EV include any coasting in neutral or drafting?

Does include maybe 20% coasting, but very little drafting, not that many opportunities for drafting on slower, two lane roads.

 

Paul

[ptjones]

I drove to Cleveland and back in EV later Mode for the first time and posted fill ups on Fuelly.com  I took a picture of my current tank when I got back. My previous three tanks I averaged 45.4 mpg in the rain. The tanks were off anywhere from 1.5 to 7 mpg. I think I will fill up the tank and see how it is off.  Every time you start the car you have to reset to EV Later.

 

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Filled up and the Displayed Trip had 52.5 mpg and Fuelly actual mileage 49.8 mpg, off by 2.7 mpg.  I got the total range for ICE miles to 560 miles, divided by 11.2 g =50 mpg. So adding 47 mi. EV range = 607 miles total. Display shows 576 mi. after fill up.

 

Paul

[fbov]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:25 AM, ptjones said:

... Displayed Trip had 52.5 mpg and Fuelly actual mileage 49.8 mpg, off by 2.7 mpg. ...

Here's my data, display vs pump mileage. Display is ~5% high. Yours sounds similar. There's supposed to be an adjustment in "engineering mode" but that's not available with the new diagnostic system. Perhaps through ForScan?

[ptjones]

Some more things I've noticed are the WT runs most of the time below 202*F (195-198*F) once in awhile I saw it get up to 207*F in EV Later Mode. It could be cooler in Normal Mode, maybe try it on next trip to see WT numbers.  Generally the display for range is over optimistic after charging, this morning I started out with a range of 53 mi. and ended with 37 mi. after going 9.9 mi. which still gets me 47 mi. range for this charge. I have a couple of 49 mi., but most are 47 mi.

 

Paul

[ptjones]

A New high for range with a full charge, 57 miles and after going to work 7 miles it has dropped to 38 mi. Currently have 2202 miles on the odometer. Still getting 47 to 49 miles per charge.  I should clarify that by saying I'm not running it empty, usually 5 to 15 miles left and charge at night at home. I went out to lunch and now up to 17.6 mi. with 29 mi. range left which works out   to 46.6 miles total range and this number will go up when going home.

 

Paul

Edited September 8, 2021 by ptjones

[fbov]

On 9/8/2021 at 12:12 PM, ptjones said:

I should clarify that by saying I'm not running it empty, usually 5 to 15 miles left and charge at night at home. 

Isn't this the kind of usage pattern that led to loss of range in C-Max Energi? Can you control how fully the HVB recharges? If you routinely have 5+ miles left when you re-charge, could there be longevity advantages to limiting "full charge" to 90% most of the time? 

[ptjones]

I got the impression that high temps caused from charging the HVB and believe owners were using Level 2 chargers which heat up the HVB more. Here's what I'm doing.

 

1. Let HVB cool off for a couple of hours before start charging. Most of my charging has been at night when it's cooler.

2. I believe the HVB is being cooled when charging.

3. I didn't use EV on my long trip and in EV later it only uses 2% of the HVB.

4. Once I put the Grill Cover on I will use EV to control temps if I need too on  long trips.

 

Paul

Edited September 9, 2021 by ptjones

[Billyk24]

On 9/9/2021 at 11:41 AM, ptjones said:

I got the impression that high temps caused from charging the HVB and believe owners were using Level 2 chargers which heat up the HVB more. Here's what I'm doing.

 

1. Let HVB cool off for a couple of hours before start charging. Most of my charging has been at night when it's cooler.

2. I believe the HVB is being cooled when charging.

3. I didn't use EV on my long trip and in EV later it only uses 2% of the HVB.

4. Once I put the Grill Cover on I will use EV to control temps if I need too on  long trips.

 

Paul

This brings up the question, does the HVB circulate coolant while charging?   In the CMax Energi, one can force the HVB to run while charging if the HVB fan is on and the charging cord is plugged into the vehicle while it is running.  Thanks to Raj for this information.      So, do you need to plug in the charger cord while the vehicle is still running and then turn off the vehicle to force the HVB coolant to continue to run while charging?  

 

[fbov]

On 9/9/2021 at 11:41 AM, ptjones said:

I got the impression that high temps caused...

Yes, it's important by itself, but there's a strong interaction with charge level at storage temperatures that aren't very hot. 

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

 

"Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage. A battery dwelling above 30°C (86°F) is considered elevated temperature and for most Li-ion a voltage above 4.10V/cell is deemed as high voltage. Exposing the battery to high temperature and dwelling in a full state-of-charge for an extended time can be more stressful than cycling."

 

Figure 8 demonstrates my understanding of the opportunity to undercharge for extended longevity. 

https://batteryuniversity.com/img/content/capacity-retention3.jpg

 

That said, Ford knows all this stuff, too. I assume it's comprehended in their charging protocols. All you'd be doing is "leaning in the right direction" akin to some of your aerodynamic modifications. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by fbov

[ptjones]

Good info there, From what I have seen max charge is 90-91% SOC.

Ran the HVB to empty last night and had to use the ICE for 1 mile of ICE use. I used a charging station for 44 min. for free for about 7.5 mile increase in range for a total of 57.5 mi. EV

 

Paul

 

[ptjones]

On page 209 in the OM it says:  "Why does my vehicle have hum or fan noise when charging?" "A hum or a fan noise could be present when charging the high voltage battery. This is normal operation as your vehicle is keeping the battery cool while charging."   This is a good thing to help the HVB last longer.  I usually wait a hour or two before charging when at home.

 

Paul

 

 

[Billyk24]

On 9/11/2021 at 5:33 PM, ptjones said:

On page 209 in the OM it says:  "Why does my vehicle have hum or fan noise when charging?" "A hum or a fan noise could be present when charging the high voltage battery. This is normal operation as your vehicle is keeping the battery cool while charging."   This is a good thing to help the HVB last longer.  I usually wait a hour or two before charging when at home.

 

Paul

 

 

Which indicates a charger fan turns on during charging as does the CMax Energi does.   However, in the CMAX Energi one can sometimes have the HVB fans also run while charging in an attempt to provide cooling to the HVB.  Not sure if coolant circulates thru the HVB of the Escape PHEV while charging level 2 or 1.    The state of the art Ford Mach E will force the coolant thru the HVB while DCFC but I am unsure about level 2 charging. 

[ptjones]

I charged up last night and this morning the range was 59 mi. a new record ?.  Drove the 7 miles to work and range was 44 miles and when I turned on the car again it had dropped to 39 miles. ? The climb to work is bad for the range. LOL  When I go home range only drops 4 miles for the 7 miles trip. Something to look for when you drive your FEHP when you get it.

 

Paul

Edited September 13, 2021 by ptjones

[ptjones]

Ran my HVB empty today for 48.5 mi. range, interesting that the car went over a mile on empty before the ICE came on. So it looks like I'm averaging 48 miles on a full charge for a 1k miles now.
I believe that anyone who drove a CMAX/Fusion Hybrid should get 44 mi. /charge non HWY driving with 44 psi in they're tires. Just checked SOC after a hour of charging, it has 7 miles. When I started charging it would take 11.4 hours to fully charge the HVB. dividing 11.4 into 48.5 =4.25 mile/hour so the HVB can be charged quicker at the beginning of charge and slow down at the end.

I don't have enough HWY driving in HVB Mode only to come up with a range yet.

This morning when I left for work the charger was still charging the HVB, but the ScanGaugeII had 93% SOC and the range was 52 mi. It is usually 56 to 59 mi. and SOC is 91%, strange. When I got to work the range had dropped to 42 mi. after the 7 mi. drive. That was better than normal.

Paul

[ptjones]

I have done very little EV driving on the FWY, I have gone about 1500 miles in Hybrid Mode where I have gone to 85 mph. My Life Time stats/ trip 2 are 80.7 mpg combined, total miles 2539 and total electric miles 1632.  My Hybrid Mode is 45.7 mpg on Fuelly and under dry road conditions I'm getting 49.7 mpg.

 

I'm thinking maybe the range computer is learning to be more accurate, this morning with a full charge I had a range of 50 mi., another low , I only lost 10 miles in range going 7 miles to work. I usually loose more like 15 miles.

 

Paul