plus 3 golfer Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 The HVB is mounted underneath the Escape unlike the C-Max. Perhaps the hot exhaust gases are vented near (rise up) to fuel tank and components around fuel tank catch fire because the ignition temperature of components is reached. http://elvsolutions.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2020-Escape-HV-Battery-Removal-10-31-19.pdf C-MaxA2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 On 10/14/2020 at 9:41 PM, Billyk24 said: Ford is holding up the Escape PHEV due to it's European twin having recalls and fires with the battery pack. Sad story. Yet the Lincoln Corsair PHEV will go into production the first week of November 2020. I don't think their going to make a 2020 Corsair PHEV and will probably available first part of next year as a 2021. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestead Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 My Ford dealer suggested that the Escape PHEV's that already had a vin would be sold in 2021 as 2020's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyk24 Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 Ford of Europe is working to fix a problem with its Kuga plug-in related to venting heat from the batteries. The fuel tank is and has been enclosed and sealed for many years. I read this as the battery and or hardware connect to the battery is overheating and catching fire. This is the root cause. The fuel tank may then be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestead Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 Ford Escape PHEV delayed to 2021 after Kuga fire-risk recall in Europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyk24 Posted October 17, 2020 Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 It is not the gas tank or location of the battery pack. This source indicates the battery cells got contaminated and caused runaway thermal control, leading to smoke and damage: BMW was more transparent than Ford in informing what the issue was. According to the German carmaker, the battery production process allowed impurities to enter the cells. When batteries have any strange element in their chemistry, that can cause thermal runaway and fires, precisely the risk both recall campaigns pointed out as their reason. https://insideevs.com/news/449322/samsung-sdi-root-ford-bmw-phev-recalls/amp/ djc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyk24 Posted October 17, 2020 Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 Lincoln Corsair PHEV production date: 11-09-2020 via this link: Ford Authority has learned that the 2021 Lincoln Corsair Grand Touring will enter production on November 9th, 2020 at the Ford Louisville Assembly Plant, https://fordauthority.com/2020/08/lincoln-corsair-grand-touring-phev-production-dates-uncovered/ Maybe...maybe not. Don't know the supplier for the battery pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyk24 Posted October 17, 2020 Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 And...Ford Authority published a noticed the Lincoln Corsair is delayed to 2021 and will be revealed as a 2021 model.: When we revealed, we announced that the Corsair Grand Touring will launch as a 2021 model year,” Lincoln told Ford Authority in a statement. “Although it was originally scheduled to go on sale at the end of this year, we are now are moving full scale production of the Corsair Grand Touring to 2021. It will go on sale next year.” https://fordauthority.com/2020/10/lincoln-corsair-grand-touring-follows-escape-phev-in-delayed-2021-launch/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyk24 Posted October 18, 2020 Report Share Posted October 18, 2020 Jumping to the competition? Someone elsewhere stated they are moving to the Audi Q5 plug-in which has a 14kWh battery pack and...all 19 miles of EV rated range. No thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted October 19, 2020 Report Share Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) From the WSJ Oct 19, 2020. “Auto makers are confronting a new challenge in their race to sell more electric cars: battery-related fires leading to vehicle recalls and safety probes. U.S. safety regulators this month opened a probe into more than 77,000 electric Chevy Bolts made by General Motors Co. after two owners complained of fires that appeared to have begun under the back seat, where the battery is located. Ford Motor Co. said last week it is delaying the U.S. introduction of its Escape plug-in hybrid after fire concerns surfaced this summer in similar vehicles sold in Europe.” “GM, Ford F -0.07% and Hyundai said that they are still investigating the fires’ causes and looking into possible remedies, and that safety is their primary concern. BMW said that most of the cars affected hadn’t yet been sold to customers.”... “Also, in recent weeks, Hyundai Motor Co. and BMW AG have initiated world-wide recalls to address problems with battery fires in plug-in models.”... “Hyundai, Ford and BMW believe the issues are related to manufacturing defects from their battery suppliers, company spokespersons said. NHTSA, in a statement, said the agency has launched multiple investigations into the potential safety issues related to fires involving electric-vehicle batteries based on data it collects. The agency also funds targeted research on advanced-battery technology and participates in developing global technical regulations. A report the agency commissioned in 2017 said that as battery technology matures, safety risks may also increase, as manufacturers try to maximize their performance. The report concluded, however, that the risks of battery fires are likely comparable to or slightly fewer than in gas-powered cars.” Edited October 19, 2020 by Plus 3 Golfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenmoment Posted October 20, 2020 Report Share Posted October 20, 2020 On 10/18/2020 at 6:47 AM, Billyk24 said: Jumping to the competition? Someone elsewhere stated they are moving to the Audi Q5 plug-in which has a 14kWh battery pack and...all 19 miles of EV rated range. No thank you. Audi has gone the "battery safety and lifetime" route, with very active thermal controls, at the cost of range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyk24 Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) But GM did the same with the Volt (17kWh) and had a 39 mile EV range. Not sure what the usable kWh capacity-many report 11.5kWh- was but this is really what a PHEV should produce for range--over 3.0+ miles per kWh. Meaning the Audi should have 30+ miles EV range. Edited October 21, 2020 by Billyk24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 Yes, the 1st generation Volt had a 16.5 kWh capacity and a usable range of around 10.9 kWh. INL shows that the 4 2013 test vehicles had HVB degradation of about 1.5 kW (9%) at about 130k miles. The 2nd generation Volt had a 18.4 kWh HVB and a usable range of about 14 kWh. INL shows losses in the same 9% range but after only 30 k miles. So, it appears that GM expanded the usable range in the 2nd generation by 10% SOC compared to the 1st generation. In other words, the 1st generation usable energy would have to be increased by 1.65 kWh to be equivalent on a usable SOC range. The SOC range of operation of the 1st generation is 66% SOC (10.9/16.5) and the SOC range of operation of the 2nd generation is upped to 76 % (14/18.4) SOC. Bottom line: It appears that expanding the SOC range (almost certainly using more of the upper range) increases HVB degradation. With respect to Audi, it wouldn’t surprise me if their philosophy is to mitigate battery degradation by holding back usable capacity initially and gradually releasing usable range as the HVB degrades such that the 14 mile range is virtually constant over the life of the HVB. Figure 5: Driving range as a function of battery performance. A new EV battery only charges to about 80% and discharges to 30%. As the battery ages, more of the usable battery bandwidth is demanded, which will result in increased stress and enhanced aging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyk24 Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 If one looks at the warranty provided by the major and modern EV companies, they state a warranty of at least 70% of new kWh for 8 years and 100,000 miles. The 9% figure falls within this range. It is doubtful that many if any normal functioning vehicles exceeded a 30% loss in capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 Yes, agree. The problem though is when the HVB is small ( like 2nd generation Volt or new 2020 Escape Plug in), a 9 % loss = about a 1.7 kWh usable range loss (assuming algorithm doesn’t expand SOC usable range as battery ages. Then, the owner sees about a 12% (1.7 / 14) drop in usable miles range which is noticeable to the owner in only 30 k miles. Getting back on topic to the Escape Plug-in, its 14.4 kWh HVB is simply to small for me. Since I live in the Phoenix area, I would have a significant risk of a very high rate of HVB degradation if I would charge to 100% say 5 days a week. The question would be how well does the Escape active liquid cooling system work when ones garage temperature doesn’t fall below 100F overnight (especially when the heat removed from charging HVB is “dumped” in garage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestead Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 44 minutes ago, Plus 3 Golfer said: Yes, agree. The problem though is when the HVB is small ( like 2nd generation Volt or new 2020 Escape Plug in), a 9 % loss = about a 1.7 kWh usable range loss (assuming algorithm doesn’t expand SOC usable range as battery ages. Then, the owner sees about a 12% (1.7 / 14) drop in usable miles range which is noticeable to the owner in only 30 k miles. Getting back on topic to the Escape Plug-in, its 14.4 kWh HVB is simply to small for me. Since I live in the Phoenix area, I would have a significant risk of a very high rate of HVB degradation if I would charge to 100% say 5 days a week. The question would be how well does the Escape active liquid cooling system work when ones garage temperature doesn’t fall below 100F overnight (especially when the heat removed from charging HVB is “dumped” in garage? Do you know that the battery cooling is running during charging rather than just when driving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 7 hours ago, homestead said: Do you know that the battery cooling is running during charging rather than just when driving? i have not seen anything in writing for the 2020 Escape Plug on how the HVB is cooled during charging. But since the Energi’s cooling system for HVB (air cooling) is operable during charging and will exhaust heated air into the right side rear wheel well, the assumption is the HVB cooling system on 2020 Escape Plug-in will operate during charging. Given that there will be heat produced during charging of HVB, the HVB temperature will rise. Two factors which affect rate of HVB degradation are frequency of cycling HVB (especially to very high SOC) and heat (operating temperature of cells). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyk24 Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 Ford is replacing the HVB packs in the European Version of the Escape PHEV due to battery cell contamination. https://fordauthority.com/2020/10/ford-will-replace-kuga-phev-battery-pack-in-recalled-models-to-fix-fire-risk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted November 3, 2020 Report Share Posted November 3, 2020 I got the Dealer info for ordering a 2021 FEPHEV which is dated Oct. 28 and I have attached the Highlights pages. Still can't order yet, we tried.? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted November 20, 2020 Report Share Posted November 20, 2020 I ordered a 2021 FEHP, don't know when it will be built except in first half of next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestead Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 Delay for Escape PHEV production until April 6th.(1 day) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestevens Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 The 2020 Escape Hybrid is getting good reviews, let us know how you like it .. I see that it has room for a compact spare so that's already good vs. CMAX. I wonder if you get more trim/accessories for the money vs. RAV4 Hybrid.. I might try to hold out for the ID Buzz if the CMAX stays good but jitters about buying a first gen brand new vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 I'm getting tried of waiting, will be talking to my SM today on what to do. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 5 days from my Escape's first anniversary, 16K miles, and aside from several minor recalls (rearview camera, A-pillar trim, PCM update), the car's been perfect. Some owners have had severe problems (stop safely now) which (I think) were addressed by the PCM update. I never saw them. No SYNC issues, and my NAV update installed flawlessly. My only complaints revolve around the block heater. The factory installed the heater, but failed to install the harness. Dealer got it right on their third try, after I pointed out to my service writer how block heaters on their diesels were installed. It now sticks out of the bottom grill. I'm controlling it with a networked switch, and finally realized I should use the scheduling feature - Ford recommends a 3 hr. run - so it runs long enough. My memory always reminds me too late; no point in a 30 min. run. Of course, the C-Max performance was similar... the bomb had a 100K mile fuse. Stay well, Frank ptjones and jestevens 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Actually you get the most change in temp in the first 1/2 to 1 hour because of the least differential temp between ICE block and OT. Last hour only sees small change. Paul djc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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