C-MaxSea

Certainly agree to an extent, Noah. 'Reliability surveys' can be extremely subjective, however, and as you say with great "weight (placed) on qualitative disapprovals.........", an almost impossible gauntlet for the C-Max hybrid. Nick PS No one here is turning a blind eye to C-Max issues, rather trying to do the opposite, trying to focus on the C-Max rather than Ford.

Jus, never got back to you on the dictator-in-training. Anyway, Dennis, Jong Un & I (three peas in a pod you know), if it’s not shooting hoops, it’s bar hopping ........ drinks, ice cream, drinks, ice cream ………. after three rounds of Soju at the bar, we can sure come up with some juicy torture treatments - Unnie (what Rodsy & I call him) thinks I’m a little soft – huh, can you believe that! BTW, Unnie sets a mean pick, but is tough to feed on the roll (a little slow). He sets the rim really low though (home court), and we generally let him win; he is the real deal you know! Nick

Love that word perspective. Hate the word perception - so very often wrong. For recall perspective (and 'hot off the press'), here is my dump on BMW, Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler, Honda ...........: Bad brakes, air bags, accelerator parts, suspension parts ........................ just your everyday crashy kinds of stuff. (and all we get are fuel efficiency improvements, nav improvements, entertainment improvements ....... - oh, & the headliner thingy for some. Our C-Max recall life is so very good - so far, especially considering all of the new components.) http://www.inautonews.com/recall-roundup-bmw-vehicles-for-braking-fail-in-the-u-s http://www.inautonews.com/over-180000-cars-recalled-in-china-by-bmw-hyundai-and-kia http://www.inautonews.com/nissan-recalls-almost-910000-vehicles-globally-on-accelerator-sensor-issue http://www.inautonews.com/chrysler-recalls-667000-vehicles-beginning-with-august http://www.inautonews.com/toyota-issues-recall-for-sienna-vehicles http://www.inautonews.com/recall-of-over-400000-vehicles-in-china the list is endless, Nick (Uncle Alan sent me this list :secret: , just kidding) (PS I don't have anything against any of these fine companies.)

Red (negative) numbers everywhere, but not much at Ford - mostly green (positive). (Keep in mind that these are yoy (year over year) numbers - Sep 2013 vs Sep 2012 (launch months (?) for Fusion & C-Max hybrids) not month over month.) http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html#autosalesB When we pummel Ford here, only the C-Max suffers. Sometime this week we will see how 'model year' / year end sales (Sep) are for the Fusion & C-Max hybrids. (PS Time to drive a really hard bargain on model year close-outs! I'm guessing that some very good deals may be had by shrewd buyers - and don't be afraid to bargain for free maintenance plans, oil changes, rotations ........ (after driving the price down), it can work)

Hi Hannah. I started the Summer around 42/43, with very limited Winter/Spring driving. My Summer run has been 47.9 before the update, and 47.6, 50.5, 47.0, & 49.5 since the update (Aug/Sep). That is about 6 MPG improvement, although you see I did do a 47.9 before the upgrade. I agree with drd that driving habits are the greatest factor in MPG numbers, mine included. Guessing at the MPG improvement I would say: break-in (10%, +0.6 MPG), update (20%, +1.2 MPG), better weather (30%, +1.8 MPG), better driving (40%, +2.4 MPG). Again, just a wild guess. I really think that most of us are actually driving more efficiently, intentionally or not, and for those who are, much better results. Nick

Nice poll AS. 87 for now, mostly Chevron, can't say I've put much thought into it. Time to amp up the tire pressure a scosh, and look at the octane/energy options more closely. Mr. cheap here. Nick (water Nick, water - don't touch that button..............)

I'd swear it's harder to shake the ICE after the update than before, probably just me. I'd be really shocked if the update improves winter driving more than 5%, and I think it will be very difficult to identify. Sure hope I'm wrong! Now SDM, that is almost cheating. Remember we are all going to be watching over your shoulder now for sterling results this winter. :) Nick

So sorry to hear of your battery issues, Celery. Hope the dealer can handle the repair. Best of luck. Glad to see you can reach the 40 mark deep in AC country, Nick

Speaking of aerodynamic drag, dastardly lies & massive conspiracies……According to Fuelly: 2013 Fusion Hybrid 203 Cars, 40.3 Avg MPG, 3,468 Fuel-Ups, 1,282,374 Miles Tracked 2013 C-Max Hybrid 201 Cars, 40.4 Avg MPG, 3,477 Fuel-Ups, 1,412,381 Miles Tracked http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/fusion/hybrid%20l4 http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/c-max/hybrid%20l4 Yes, the wee little C-Max has nosed ahead of the Fusion Hybrid for a day or ? Hey, someone throw a parachute on that dang thing and slow it down. Oh that’s right, it is jus the ‘jus effect’. I would argue that both could be substantially higher if drivers drove them with greater attention to fuel efficiency. Many, if not most, of these 404 cars are just being driven like non-hybrids – and that is fine, just not optimal. BTW FuelEconomy.gov has it at 39.9 Fusion, 39.2 C-Max – all numbers very unscientific and not ‘reliable’. All of the above does seem to indicate, however, that Ford may have had cause (just a pinch?) to assign the same EPA numbers. That is not to say it was a good decision, or even ‘right’. Factually, it was ‘by the book’, but sadly the cheap & potentially deceptive way to go. Accounting departments do have sway one day to the next – just one theory out of many. Anyway, maybe we need to expand the conspiracy theory to include the Fusion – not! Nevertheless, I say we have held court and found them ‘guilty’ (we could not have it any other way, you know – we must judge, sentence, and pummel the offender) :judge: The aforementioned offenders are hereby sentenced to no less than ten (10) 3 minute tickling sessions administered by no fewer than fifteen (15) 2 to 4 year olds, during or immediately after a no-wash peanut butter & jelly sandwich lunch (open face). The aforementioned offenders will be provided with fully pressed brilliant white shirts or blouses in advance of said torture attitude adjustment session, and shall not be allowed to change-out said garments for the remainder of the work day. Fully trained 2 to 4 year old ticklers and their handlers shall be selected for their tickling prowess, determination, endurance and sloppy eating habits. And if that does not work, it will be powder blue polyester suits and shag carpet shoes for thirty days! Throw the ‘book’, I mean polyester suits at them! Oh, the inhumanity of it all! I’m trading in my C-Max at 40 MPG for an Escape at 28 23 (Eeek) MPG, I’m so peeved! Sorry for the long dissertations, time for me to sit down and shut up, Nick

That's a great round trip Jmonty - luv it! Nick

:redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :judge: Jus, You are so guilty, we may have to cite you - not reading the memo, thinking for yourself, going past the headlines, not piling on,.......... shame, shame, shame. Take this as a warning, or we will issue you special blue hide glasses to keep you from overusing that poor little EV motor. ICE rules! Nick

Sounds like your salesman should not have been allowed anywhere near any car on the lot, let alone a C-Max. Not only was our salesman great, but our service manager is great, and even does some drive coaching. Take care, Nick

lol, drd. Sadly you are probably right, that could be a problem at some dealerships. As an exception, our salesman was great and knew the car very well - he could easily be 'trained' to coach and train other coaches. Coaches would have to be the best of the best at each dealership(or new hires) - sadly still eek in some places. (A new job for some of you?) Nick

This showed up in my in-box this morning, :secret: Coaching & Tech Sessions News flash from mother ship Ford: In their on-going quest to bring customer satisfaction & fuel economy performance to new heights; Ford to offer free Hybrid Driving Coach Sessions (HDCS’s) to all new 2014 Ford hybrid buyers. All 2014 hybrid buyers will be given an optional free 3 hour, ‘one on one’, Coach Session (HDCS) with a certified Ford Hybrid Driving Coach upon their purchase. In addition, on-going Coach Sessions can be purchased in 4 hour increments for follow-up training, in groups of three drivers. Also announced today, Ford will be offering 4 hour Hybrid Tech Sessions across the country for the purpose of giving Ford Hybrid owners in-depth overviews of Ford's hybrid technologies. These sessions, provided by Ford Hybrid Engineers, will cover the basic hybrid systems, and provide an opportunity for limited Q & A. Initial sessions are planned for twice yearly opportunities being in the Spring & Fall at selected locations around the U. S. & Canada. Just nicking you, of course, :future: Nick PS Hmmm, probably won’t happen, but fun to ponder.

Garage it Laurel! (if possible, of course) Actually a tiny bit serious here. I'm guessing that a garage adds 3,4,5 ....mpg over the Fall/Winter months for folks who drive sparingly and shorter distances. Little warm-up for the ICE, no de-icing, a touch of the seat warmer now & then ............... huge on 2 to 20 mile trips! (Oh, and only drive it when it is nice out :) :) :) just kidding) Love your EVe Nick PS 2 mile trip in ICE - MPG in 20s 3 mile trip, 2 ICE/1 EV - MPGs in 30s 4 mile trip, 2 ICE/2 EV - MPGs in 40s In other words, it is all in the proportion of EV you are able to use. Very short trips in ICE (immed. uphill climb or cold weather ICE warm-up) will always be very weak. If you can achieve 40 - 50% EV, MPG life is good.

Great work Ian & Tehuti, congratz! BTW, you know you are flirting with 600 there with those numbers Tehuti!

Scratch me, and you would find about 67% negative on Ford, but that is not the point I care to discuss – this is a C-Max Forum. Flaming Ford (people) for the same thing over & over gets redundant and probably destroys the reputation of the C-Max more than Ford. In your case you at least have spoken favorably about your C-Max, but even that is likely lost since most casual observers here do not read more than half of any post and are only left with a general (in this case more likely negative) impression. Perception is everything in our modern messed up culture. Did Ford “ ____up”? ( “It depends on what the meaning of the words “ ____ up” is.”) None of us really know, and if they did “____ up”, none of us here know the particulars, or even whether it will matter. We can “bet” each other until we are blue in the face and no one is served the better. Do we discuss & analyze our C-Max here, and share experiences (pro & con), or do we directly or indirectly contribute to its demise – hopefully the former. I would like it to ‘sink or swim’ on its’ merits, not Ford’s. (silly statement, impossible, I know) Its demise would be a shame IMHO, especially if I contributed. I can help or I can hurt its’ reputation here. Yes, I have my issues with some of the features, and discuss them here openly, but on balance............... All cars & car companies have warts and blemishes; pros & cons; shoulda, coulda, wouldas……………. The list is endless. And those nuances can take on the character of each of us. Personally, I like my “wiggly” DTE readout (it’s a hoot to watch the computer try to guess my next move) – others don’t like the "wiggly" DTE readout. It’s just plain fun to discuss. Yust getting a tiny bit tired of the Ford flaming side show here. Nevertheless, I say go for it. Speculate and crucify, sounds like fun. (I’m sure not going to buy one of those dang Fords again.) Just my 2 cents, trying to look forward rather than back, Kind regards, Nick

The Force is with you EV(e) that is. She is your constant & abiding helper, friend, lover ………….. embrace her! Charge her up by coasting at speed down moderate declines, (free EV charge) Charge her up by using the Down Hill Assist on steeper declines, (free EV charge) Charge her up by braking methodically, (free EV charge) Charge her up at 2 bar ICE squirts only when you must. Ride her up hills if you can, eeking over the crest when possible & you have a free EV charge down the other side, Use her every electron when the road ahead screams ‘charge obligation’ (i.e. extended up-hill / ICE climb ahead) Use her whenever you can. Treat the ICE, well, like ice! Don’t touch, unless you must. Looking ahead, how much free (sans gas) EV charge can I maximize, and ICE squirts minimize. EV = Li Ion 'Hybrid' Battery = better MPG’s = fewer emissions = love Like Jus says, drive at speed; jus do it judiciously! My 2 cents, consider at your own risk, corrections welcome, Nick WALL-E

Yes Alpha, it is interesting, and I like your term "wiggly". I understood that you don't like the "wiggly", just trying to explain why it is "wiggly", and we do have to live with it - for now. Because we are driving a hybrid, and know more about the road ahead of us than the 'car', we will always have to assess the value to place in the DTE readout. I will talk to Uncle Alan about the dual option idea for 2015, changeable in settings :secret: . Nick (like the wiggly)

Nice thought Alpha, if you mean fuel/gas miles to empty in addition to gas + EV miles to empty. I think that settings option will be in the 2015 model. Nick

Keep in mind that the 'car' is doing it's best to guess what your future road grades/driving habits will be based on the immediate past. It has to mesh what gas miles are left at xx mpg with what no-gas EV miles might be ahead at xxx mpg.; and it can only guess based on it's most recent experience - has it just burned fuel up an 8% grade, or has it just experienced long stretches of EVing. Like Jus said, keep an eye on your fuel used, and know whether the road ahead is full of EV opportunity ('free miles'), or an uphill grind (there go my precious drops of gas). Nick PS Pick your comfort level of gallons used, 11, 11.5, 12, 12.5..... and stick to it.

But then again, what does Cousin It mean?