Hybrid vs Energi Payback Period

[hybridbear]

Here are the calculations I've done for my parents on their comparison of a C-Max Energi and a C-Max Hybrid.

 

Energi w/ 302A pkg: $32,969 (invoice price not including tax credit)

Energi tax credit $3750

Hybrid: $28,944

Hybrid Rebate: $250

Ford Cash Offer: $750

 

Energi price subject to sales tax: $32,219

Energi sales tax at 6.5%: $2094.24

Hybrid price subject to sales tax: $27,944

Hybrid sales tax at 6.5%: $1816.36

 

Energi price premium: $4552.88

NPV of Tax Credit $3750 received 8 months after cash outlay based on a .25% APR: $3172.11

 

Energi price premium after tax credit: $1380.77

 

Assumptions

Electric costs: $.135/kWh including all taxes and fees

Gas costs: $3.75/gal

Energi EV range: 20 miles

Energi estimated real world MPG: 40 MPG

Hybrid estimated real world MPG: 45 MPG

 

Energi cost per mile

Assumptions

EV miles per week: 100

EV Later miles per week: 50

2/3 of total miles from wall charging

kWh to fully charge: 6.5 per 20 miles

Cost per 20 miles: $.88

Cost per mile EV: $0.043875

Cost per mile EV Later: $0.09375

Cost per 1000 miles: $60.48

Blended cost per mile: $0.06048

 

Hybrid cost per mile

$.083333

 

Energi cost savings per mile

$0.02285

 

EV miles to recover Energi premium = 1380.77/.049875 = 60,427 miles

Based on 2/3 of total odometer miles being EV miles the odometer miles for payback is 90,641 miles

 

If gas prices rise to $4 a gallon then the payback period is sooner. If electric costs rise at the same rate as gas prices then the payback period would be longer. As you can see, the payback period is quite long. As you can also see, there are a lot of assumptions in these calculations. I assume that gas prices will average $3.75/gal over the next 10 years or so. I also assume that their electric rates will average $.135/kWh over the next number of years. I also use the assumptions that the Hybrid will get a year-round average of 45 MPG and that the Energi will average 40 MPG in EV Later mode. I also assume that the electric usage from charging the car will average 6.5 kWh per complete charge of the battery. This should be enough to include the power used by cabin preconditioning when so desired which increases the cost of the Energi. The Hybrid would not have any cabin preconditioning. If the Hybrid were to be run to precondition the cabin then the balance would shift in favor of the Energi. I do not include the costs to install a 240V charger because that is not a given. I also do not include any costs to rewire their garage to support 120V or 240V charging because they need to rewire their house (and are planning to this year) regardless of whether they buy an NRG.

 

In MN there are some things that don't work in favor of these calculations

• We have high electricity costs compared to other states
• We have lower gas prices than other states
• Our cold winters lead to a higher electricity usage to precondition the Energi cabin and lower fuel economy
• Our relatively high sales tax increases the Energi premium by almost $300

However I also made some assumptions that may not be the best predictions for future energy prices

• If gas prices increase at a faster rate than electricity costs then the Energi is a better deal (this seems more likely)
• If electricity rates increase faster than gas prices then the Hybrid is a better deal (this seems less likely)

Benefits of the Energi not factored in above

• Warm fuzzy feeling about driving in EV mode around town
• Time saved on trips to the gas station
• Time/money saved due to less oil changes
• Cabin preconditioning

Does anyone else see other factors I should include? Thank you!

[C-MAXER]

Does anyone else see other factors I should include? Thank you!

 

Right now with plug-ins and their new technology battery packs both still in their infancy, trying to justify paybacks just doesn't work.  You buy it for the other benefits you stated.  Hybrids have had the same tough row to hoe since their inception as they have always been compared to econoboxes (rightly or wrongly).  Because of factory incentives, I could have walked out the dealership with a base model escape for nearly $10K less than my loaded SEL.  But it's not what I wanted.  If your parents want an energi and can comfortably afford it, then by all means they should get it.

[zhackwyatt]

I'm curious if you found this helpful at all.  It's a page I put on my website.

http://gocalipso.com/2013/02/plugin-hybrid-energy-cost-comparison-calculator.php#post

[lowbar]

Very thorough analysis.  The one cost I don't see listed for the Energi is buying and installing the 240v charger.  I would assume most plug in hybrid owners would want one.

[BigRed]

If there were EV chargers at my work I would have gone for an energi, that way my work commute could be 100% on electricity (about 16 miles each way). Plus the fact that most charging stations around here are free, I would only pay for about half my power cost to charge the vehicle.

 

Already asked my boss, they wont let me run an extension cord out to the parking lot :(

 

I guesstimated my payback would be half the normal amount. Even then I decided it wasn't really worth it. I would rather have the utility of having more trunk space.

[hybridbear]

Right now with plug-ins and their new technology battery packs both still in their infancy, trying to justify paybacks just doesn't work.  You buy it for the other benefits you stated.  Hybrids have had the same tough row to hoe since their inception as they have always been compared to econoboxes (rightly or wrongly).  Because of factory incentives, I could have walked out the dealership with a base model escape for nearly $10K less than my loaded SEL.  But it's not what I wanted.  If your parents want an energi and can comfortably afford it, then by all means they should get it.

True. That's why I listed the other benefits of the Energi. To make the decision to buy the Energi they have to really believe those other benefits because the payback isn't a sure thing. If I didn't live in an apartment I would definitely have bought a C-Max Energi instead of the Fusion Hybrid. That's why I planted the idea in their head. The Energi is really ideal for their needs. The other cars they would be considering are a Jeep Compass or Dodge Journey, both of which would struggle to get 20 MPG and cost almost as much when comparably equipped. The car that will be replaced is a 2000 Chrysler 300M that gets about 16-18 MPG on average driving around the city. They would still keep their Nissan Murano for long trips because they don't think the C-Max would be comfortable for those long trips since it's much smaller in the front passenger space than their Murano

 

I'm curious if you found this helpful at all.  It's a page I put on my website.

http://gocalipso.com/2013/02/plugin-hybrid-energy-cost-comparison-calculator.php#post

I hadn't before, but thanks, it's very neat

 

Very thorough analysis.  The one cost I don't see listed for the Energi is buying and installing the 240v charger.  I would assume most plug in hybrid owners would want one.

They wouldn't install a 240V right away. Since buying the 240V charger isn't a given in buying an NRG it isn't included. After buying an NRG the decision would need to be made about the cost of the 240V charger in comparison with the convenience benefits.

[ArizonaEnergi]

Nice analysis, although depending upon withholding or quarterly payment opportunties, the tax credit could be "taken" sooner avoiding the need to do a present value I think.

 

Being a retiree, I see no need for a 240v charger.

[hybridbear]

Nice analysis, although depending upon withholding or quarterly payment opportunties, the tax credit could be "taken" sooner avoiding the need to do a present value I think.

 

Being a retiree, I see no need for a 240v charger.

 

How so? Since my parents are retired and drawing Social Security and from their 401k is there a way they can get the credit sooner? Thanks

[wab]

hybridbear

you probably need to revise your future gas and electricity prices.

 

Gas consumption in the US is going down.

 

The oil refiners and oil speculators are having a hard time keeping gas @ $3.50 much less $3.75.

 

The Gulf of Mexico is overdue a major hurricane = much higher natural gas (small/short spike in oil) = much higher electricity (large/short spike in gas).

 

Per CNBC this morning, oil production is actually going up in the US, storage is almost at capacity.

 

 

[ArizonaEnergi]

How so? Since my parents are retired and drawing Social Security and from their 401k is there a way they can get the credit sooner? Thanks

Well, it all depends on what their taxable income is.  If it's high enough that they are making quarterly estimated tax payments then they could reduce each of them by 1/4 of the credit, or possibly reduce an earlier one or two by more to advance the benefit of the credit.  Testing that via TurboTax or one of the others could determine how much each payment could be reduced to avoid a penalty.

 

So probably not a complete early benefit in their case, but possibly some!

[Rob]

One calculation error where you determined EV miles to recover premium.

 

You show:    1380.77/.049875 = 60,427 miles  but that result actually comes from dividing the premium by the cost per mile savings of .02285.

 

That's the right calculation to make: the extra cost divided by the savings per mile will give you the number of miles to recoup the extra cost.  But .02285 is not the savings when driving EV, it's the savings using the blended cost per mile (.08333 - .06048).  Therefore you've calculated the total number of miles need to recoup your cost.  No need to reapply the 2/3 of the miles will be EV.

 

But 60,427 is still a large number considering the low number of miles that they're driving per year.

 

I did some similar calculations trying to justify my Energi purchase, but I used some different numbers that came out more advantageous for the Energi.  (That's probably telling that I wanted the Energi more.)  From reading forums and looking at fuelly.com I lowered the expectations of the MPG to 41 hybrid and 38 Energi.  My electric rate is slightly lower at .12 including fees and taxes and some of my charges have been free.  Oddly none of my gas fill-ups are free.  

 

Now that I have the car some of the numbers are even more favorable than I used in the calculation.  Over 80% of my 1,900 miles have been EV.  That's nice, but I know it won't last.  Because of that I can't really estimate my non EV MPG.  My grocery store gives a discount on gas based on how much you spend at the store.  Because of the high number of EV miles I was able to accumulate a larger discount and my one tank of gas was discounted $.90 per gallon. 

 

I guess I'm trying hard to justify my choice now that I've made it, but I also really enjoy driving in EV mode and not having to worry about exceeding the threshold that turns on the ICE.

 

Blended cost per mile: $0.06048

 

Hybrid cost per mile

$.083333

 

Energi cost savings per mile

$0.02285

 

EV miles to recover Energi premium = 1380.77/.049875 = 60,427 miles

Based on 2/3 of total odometer miles being EV miles the odometer miles for payback is 90,641 miles

[Rob]

I have to admit that I don't understand NPV very well, but with your result I think that you would have to have a VERY high rate of return to lose almost $600 in 8 months.

[ArizonaEnergi]

I agree on the NPV.   If you lose 1% interest on your money in your savings account for 8 months until you "get" the credit, its $3,750 x 1% x 8/12 = $25.

[hybridbear]

hybridbear

you probably need to revise your future gas and electricity prices.

 

Gas consumption in the US is going down.

 

The oil refiners and oil speculators are having a hard time keeping gas @ $3.50 much less $3.75.

 

The Gulf of Mexico is overdue a major hurricane = much higher natural gas (small/short spike in oil) = much higher electricity (large/short spike in gas).

 

Per CNBC this morning, oil production is actually going up in the US, storage is almost at capacity.

MN electricity is almost 0% natural gas. Here our electricity is coal, nuclear and burning garbage. Those three sources account for over 90% of our electricity if I'm not mistaken. Hydro is a very small portion, wind is very small and natural gas is less than 2% if I remember right. The EPA has a site where you can plug in your zip code and it will tell you your energy source.

 

One calculation error where you determined EV miles to recover premium.

 

You show:    1380.77/.049875 = 60,427 miles  but that result actually comes from dividing the premium by the cost per mile savings of .02285.

 

That's the right calculation to make: the extra cost divided by the savings per mile will give you the number of miles to recoup the extra cost.  But .02285 is not the savings when driving EV, it's the savings using the blended cost per mile (.08333 - .06048).  Therefore you've calculated the total number of miles need to recoup your cost.  No need to reapply the 2/3 of the miles will be EV.

 

But 60,427 is still a large number considering the low number of miles that they're driving per year.

 

I did some similar calculations trying to justify my Energi purchase, but I used some different numbers that came out more advantageous for the Energi.  (That's probably telling that I wanted the Energi more.)  From reading forums and looking at fuelly.com I lowered the expectations of the MPG to 41 hybrid and 38 Energi.  My electric rate is slightly lower at .12 including fees and taxes and some of my charges have been free.  Oddly none of my gas fill-ups are free.  

 

Now that I have the car some of the numbers are even more favorable than I used in the calculation.  Over 80% of my 1,900 miles have been EV.  That's nice, but I know it won't last.  Because of that I can't really estimate my non EV MPG.  My grocery store gives a discount on gas based on how much you spend at the store.  Because of the high number of EV miles I was able to accumulate a larger discount and my one tank of gas was discounted $.90 per gallon. 

 

I guess I'm trying hard to justify my choice now that I've made it, but I also really enjoy driving in EV mode and not having to worry about exceeding the threshold that turns on the ICE.

Great catch!! I'm revising my math now...

 

I have to admit that I don't understand NPV very well, but with your result I think that you would have to have a VERY high rate of return to lose almost $600 in 8 months.

Another great catch! I messed up my decimal places before...

[hybridbear]

Fixed data

Here are the calculations I've done for my parents on their comparison of a C-Max Energi and a C-Max Hybrid.

 

Energi w/ 302A pkg: $32,969 (invoice price not including tax credit)

Energi tax credit $3750

Hybrid: $28,944

Hybrid Rebate: $250

Ford Cash Offer: $750

 

Energi price subject to sales tax: $32,219

Energi sales tax at 6.5%: $2094.24

Hybrid price subject to sales tax: $27,944

Hybrid sales tax at 6.5%: $1816.36

 

Energi price premium: $4552.88

NPV of Tax Credit $3750 received 8 months after cash outlay based on a 3% APR: $3676.47

 

Energi price premium after tax credit: $876.41

 

Assumptions

Electric costs: $.135/kWh including all taxes and fees

Gas costs: $3.75/gal

Energi EV range: 20 miles

Energi estimated real world MPG: 40 MPG

Hybrid estimated real world MPG: 45 MPG

 

Energi cost per mile

Assumptions

EV miles per week: 100

EV Later miles per week: 50

2/3 of total miles from wall charging

kWh to fully charge: 6.5 per 20 miles

Cost per 20 miles: $.88

Cost per mile EV: $0.043875

Cost per mile EV Later: $0.09375

Cost per 1000 miles: $60.48

Blended cost per mile: $0.06048

 

Hybrid cost per mile

$.083333

 

Energi cost savings per mile

$0.02285

 

EV miles to recover Energi premium = 876.41/.02285 = 38,355 miles

This is based on the assumption that 2/3 of total odometer miles are EV miles

[plus 3 golfer]

Here's my comments on your analysis:

 

1) Below is the current Ford pricing and incentives for zip code 55401

 

 

2)  I don't see any cash incentives listed for the Energi and what is the hybrid rebate?

 

3)  So, the difference in price after your discounted tax credit is 32,950 + 2,094 - 28,365 - 1,816 - 750 - 3,676 = $1,937 (assuming my math is correct) and does not include the hybrid rebate.

 

4)  6.5 kWh may be low to travel 20 miles.  I have yet to see any actual measurement of metered kWh to charge.  There will be conversion losses.  My guess would be at least 5% (maybe more).  

 

5)  Are there any vehicle license taxes in MN like AZ based on the MSRP of the vehicles?  In AZ, the Energi will result in an $80 first year tax premium over the hybrid. 

 

6)  Are the annual insurance premiums higher on the Energi than the Hybrid in MN?

 

When I did my similar analysis for AZ with a higher state sales tax rate and $1000 cash incentive difference, the payback period (in years) was way too long for me but of course everyone's rationale for buying an Energi vs Hybrid will be different.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Plus 3 Golfer

[DR61]

Not listed as an 'incentive' but there is also $750 Ford Private Cash that you can get (for both Energi and Hybrid) by ordering a brochure through the Ford web site.  Looks like you can't combine the Private Cash with the Incentive for the Hybrid.

 

In California the question would be 'is there a payback to get the Hybrid SEL over the Energi', since the Energi comes out less expensive after CA rebate and tax credit.

 

Regardless, for us 'no plug, no sale.'

[plus 3 golfer]

Unless Ford changed it, the brochure "private cash" could be combined with x-plan pricing.  I did it and so did many others on the C-Max and other Ford models. So, the private cash should be good on both models while the incentive is only good on the hybrid. 

 

The other "feature difference" that I took into account" in my Energi vs Hybrid decision is cargo space albeit hard to quantify $ wise.  If one needs cargo space and if one takes longer trips, the Hybrid wins on more space and also better highway fuel economy due to the lesser vehicle weight.   

[DR61]

Good to know. My 'Private Offer' has a statement 'May not combine with other private or commercial offers ... etc.'  Hard to interpret some of this fine print.

 

Another advantage off the Energi is greatly reduced CO2 output when in EV mode.  Off course if one does a very large proportion of driving in hybrid/EV later mode then the Hybrid may be the better choice.  We will be doing at least 1/2 of our annual driving in EV mode, and  at least 75% of that will get energy from our solar PV system.  Most other electric suppliers in our area get their energy primarily from natural gas, hydro, wind, biomass, and geothermal - all sources much lower in CO2 than burning gasoline (well to wheel).

Unless Ford changed it, the brochure "private cash" could be combined with x-plan pricing.  I did it and so did many others on the C-Max and other Ford models. So, the private cash should be good on both models while the incentive is only good on the hybrid. 

[mtb9153]

Here are the calculations I've done for my parents on their comparison of a C-Max Energi and a C-Max Hybrid.

 

Energi w/ 302A pkg: $32,969 (invoice price not including tax credit)

Energi tax credit $3750

Hybrid: $28,944

Hybrid Rebate: $250

Ford Cash Offer: $750

 

Energi price subject to sales tax: $32,219

Energi sales tax at 6.5%: $2094.24

Hybrid price subject to sales tax: $27,944

Hybrid sales tax at 6.5%: $1816.36

 

Energi price premium: $4552.88

NPV of Tax Credit $3750 received 8 months after cash outlay based on a .25% APR: $3172.11

 

Energi price premium after tax credit: $1380.77

 

Assumptions

Electric costs: $.135/kWh including all taxes and fees

Gas costs: $3.75/gal

Energi EV range: 20 miles

Energi estimated real world MPG: 40 MPG

Hybrid estimated real world MPG: 45 MPG

 

Energi cost per mile

Assumptions

EV miles per week: 100

EV Later miles per week: 50

2/3 of total miles from wall charging

kWh to fully charge: 6.5 per 20 miles

Cost per 20 miles: $.88

Cost per mile EV: $0.043875

Cost per mile EV Later: $0.09375

Cost per 1000 miles: $60.48

Blended cost per mile: $0.06048

 

Hybrid cost per mile

$.083333

 

Energi cost savings per mile

$0.02285

 

EV miles to recover Energi premium = 1380.77/.049875 = 60,427 miles

Based on 2/3 of total odometer miles being EV miles the odometer miles for payback is 90,641 miles

 

If gas prices rise to $4 a gallon then the payback period is sooner. If electric costs rise at the same rate as gas prices then the payback period would be longer. As you can see, the payback period is quite long. As you can also see, there are a lot of assumptions in these calculations. I assume that gas prices will average $3.75/gal over the next 10 years or so. I also assume that their electric rates will average $.135/kWh over the next number of years. I also use the assumptions that the Hybrid will get a year-round average of 45 MPG and that the Energi will average 40 MPG in EV Later mode. I also assume that the electric usage from charging the car will average 6.5 kWh per complete charge of the battery. This should be enough to include the power used by cabin preconditioning when so desired which increases the cost of the Energi. The Hybrid would not have any cabin preconditioning. If the Hybrid were to be run to precondition the cabin then the balance would shift in favor of the Energi. I do not include the costs to install a 240V charger because that is not a given. I also do not include any costs to rewire their garage to support 120V or 240V charging because they need to rewire their house (and are planning to this year) regardless of whether they buy an NRG.

 

In MN there are some things that don't work in favor of these calculations

• We have high electricity costs compared to other states
• We have lower gas prices than other states
• Our cold winters lead to a higher electricity usage to precondition the Energi cabin and lower fuel economy
• Our relatively high sales tax increases the Energi premium by almost $300

However I also made some assumptions that may not be the best predictions for future energy prices

• If gas prices increase at a faster rate than electricity costs then the Energi is a better deal (this seems more likely)
• If electricity rates increase faster than gas prices then the Hybrid is a better deal (this seems less likely)

Benefits of the Energi not factored in above

• Warm fuzzy feeling about driving in EV mode around town
• Time saved on trips to the gas station
• Time/money saved due to less oil changes
• Cabin preconditioning

Does anyone else see other factors I should include? Thank you!

gas prices aren't at $4 in MN?  Come to CA closer to $5

[hybridbear]

Here's my comments on your analysis:

 

1) Below is the current Ford pricing and incentives for zip code 55401

 

 

2)  I don't see any cash incentives listed for the Energi and what is the hybrid rebate?

 

3)  So, the difference in price after your discounted tax credit is 32,950 + 2,094 - 28,365 - 1,816 - 750 - 3,676 = $1,937 (assuming my math is correct) and does not include the hybrid rebate.

 

4)  6.5 kWh may be low to travel 20 miles.  I have yet to see any actual measurement of metered kWh to charge.  There will be conversion losses.  My guess would be at least 5% (maybe more).  

 

5)  Are there any vehicle license taxes in MN like AZ based on the MSRP of the vehicles?  In AZ, the Energi will result in an $80 first year tax premium over the hybrid. 

 

6)  Are the annual insurance premiums higher on the Energi than the Hybrid in MN?

 

When I did my similar analysis for AZ with a higher state sales tax rate and $1000 cash incentive difference, the payback period (in years) was way too long for me but of course everyone's rationale for buying an Energi vs Hybrid will be different.

Ford must have just updated their incentives, a few days ago the Hybrid incentive was only $250. My parents got a $750 Ford coupon in their C-Max Energi brochure. This offer is valid for both the Hybrid and the Energi models.

 

The Energi battery is 7.6 kWh, the hybrid battery is 1.4 kWh, that means that the portion charged by plugging in should be about 6.2 kWh, other Energi users have reported around 6.5 kWh average plugging into the wall to charge.

 

The license tax would be $7 higher for the Energi, good idea as I had not factored that in.

 

Insurance Premiums are equal according to Geico between the gas Fusion, the Fusion Hybrid and Fusion Energi. Premiums are also equal between the C-Max Hybrid and C-Max Energi.

 

Not listed as an 'incentive' but there is also $750 Ford Private Cash that you can get (for both Energi and Hybrid) by ordering a brochure through the Ford web site.  Looks like you can't combine the Private Cash with the Incentive for the Hybrid.

 

In California the question would be 'is there a payback to get the Hybrid SEL over the Energi', since the Energi comes out less expensive after CA rebate and tax credit.

 

Regardless, for us 'no plug, no sale.'

That's a phenomenal deal. I wish MN had some PHEV incentives.

 

Good to know. My 'Private Offer' has a statement 'May not combine with other private or commercial offers ... etc.'  Hard to interpret some of this fine print.

 

Another advantage off the Energi is greatly reduced CO2 output when in EV mode.  Off course if one does a very large proportion of driving in hybrid/EV later mode then the Hybrid may be the better choice.  We will be doing at least 1/2 of our annual driving in EV mode, and  at least 75% of that will get energy from our solar PV system.  Most other electric suppliers in our area get their energy primarily from natural gas, hydro, wind, biomass, and geothermal - all sources much lower in CO2 than burning gasoline (well to wheel).

So does the "Private Offer" $750 negate the other rebates that are available?

 

Our electricity comes from coal and nuclear primarily but it's still less pollution to drive in EV mode than to burn gasoline.

 

gas prices aren't at $4 in MN?  Come to CA closer to $5

Nope, they are dropping right now, down under $3.50/gal currently

[plus 3 golfer]

So, you need to find out if the $750 hybrid rebate can be used with the brochure discount for the hybrid like I could when I bought (although I did buy under the X-Plan which may be different). The dealer should be able to look up the brochure discount on-line and then check what other incentives / rebates can also be applied. Others have indicated that the brochure discount could not be used with the A&Z and D plans. My X-Plan price was  $1169 more than the A&Z plan and $1061 more than the D plan prices. So, maybe Ford has a bottom line amount of total discounts that they will provide to an individual.   

 

Also as I recall, I didn't request a brochure but simply filled out a form online in the Spring 2012 for Ford to "keep me informed" on the C-Max availability and received a brochure in the mail in October 2012 with the $1000 offer.  As I recall the instructions were simply to take the brochure to the Ford dealer and they will know what to do with no other caveats (but I could be wrong).

 

Also, if your parents own Ford stock, at least in the past they could qualify for the X-Plan pricing by filing out a Ford form and then get an X-Plan number from Ford to take to the dealer.

[plus 3 golfer]

For some reason, I just received a Ford brochure in the mail with the $750 Private Cash Offer as a coupon card.  My initial brochure that I received for $1000 offer was twice the size of this brochure and there was no coupon but a page within the brochure with my name on it, code, and the $1000 offer. 

 

As, I read the restrictions on the offer, it is valid for X-Plan pricing but not the A/D/Z Plans but can't be used for other private or commercial offers. It makes no mention of excluding cash rebate incentives.  Since one can definitely get general cash incentives with the X-Plan pricing, I see no reason why one can't use the $750 private offer with any cash incentive like the currently available $750.  So, it certainly looks like hybridbear's analysis should be more in line with my analysis in post #16 of $1937 as the additional cost of the Energi over the Hybrid (in most states but obvious not in CA). :)  

[valkraider]

I get significantly more than 40mpg average in my Energi. I usually am around 46mpg when I burn gasoline. Fuel economy will vary based on driving style and weather.

 

No one really needs a 240v charger for the Energi, it will charge to full in 6 hours.

 

A full charge has been measured - it takes about 8kwh to charge from empty. See the Energi forums for more accurate info.

 

I charge a lot for free and also charge a lot when out and about so I get significantly more than 20 miles per day on EV. Also due to our mountains the larger Energi battery allows me to recoup many more regen miles than possible with the hybrid.

 

I have 6800 miles on the car since December 20. 4500 of them have been EV, 1200 of those due to regen, so 3300 EV miles from the plug.

[bogoofygg]

What are you all talkn about? Man, you have way too much time on your hands! I have already bought my Energi and all I know is I love it.  May I ask?  What are you all talking about "private cash" $500.00?   I can not find it on "ford.com" other that "police incentives".  Is this what your talking about? or am I really as dence as i feel when reading all the calulations you all have made?  I hope I'm not offending anyone. But I have no Idea what you all are talking about..lol