Poll: Should EPA be 47city & 44hwy?

[fotomoto]

That's what Ford was thinking early on as published in this report about it's new hybrid transmission (see slide on page 4):

 

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/merit_review_2012/adv_power_electronics/arravt024_ape_poet_2012_p.pdf

 

I say they were spot on and should have gone with that.

[salsaguy]

nice find. it is interesting since most all othereco boost or hybrid cars have a lower (even slightly) number for their hwy mpg value than the city number so why did Ford think any different for the C-Max.

 

of course the numbers won't change until they redo the tests or create a better test profile for Lithium ion tech hybrid like the C-Max.

[obob]

44 HWY may be more realistic in my experience but EPA is not about realistic, it is about a test that gives some approximation of realistic with specific rules to follow so apples can be compared to apples.

 

They just went with numbers from the EPA test. ( Unlike Hyundai which from what I gather did not do the test right. )

 

And with the numbers the marketing people might have seen an opportunity to stick it to Toyota and they did.  (By the way, am not a fan of those Toyota marketing commercials about Prius for everyone.  I am glad to have bought a car that puts Americans to work.)

 

So my vote is no.

 

And I agree, that C-Max presentation is a nice find.

Edited July 14, 2013 by obob

[homestead]

That's what Ford was thinking early on as published in this report about it's new hybrid transmission (see slide on page 4):

 

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/merit_review_2012/adv_power_electronics/arravt024_ape_poet_2012_p.pdf

 

I say they were spot on and should have gone with that.

 

Nice document, could be Exhibit A in the class action lawsuit.

[Jmonty]

More like 47/37. Highway should mean 70-80mph

[Testdriver]

I got 47 mpg on over 150 miles on the highway today. Of course, I was stuck in holiday traffic and averaged 50-55 mph over the course of the trip.

[hybridbear]

The EPA test results are 47/47. There is no disputing that...a better question would be: is 47/44 a more realistic MPG rating than 47/47? That I would agree with. But the EPA tests make ZERO claims to be realistic. They're just like standardized tests for schoolchildren. They aren't a realistic measure of intelligence but provide a way to compare students and schools. EPA test results don't claim to be a realistic measure of YOUR MPG, they just provide a tool to compare vehicles and manufacturers.

[zalusky]

Hybrids have such a large variablility between drivers that I am not sure what they should use. 

 

My wife and I have the exact same CMAX SEL models and she averages 8-10 MPG less than me. I drive an even mix of freeway and street averaging 20 miles each way.  She drives primarily city streets.  I believe the difference correlates to two major factors.  First, She drives much shorter distances and does not get her engine adequeately warmed up and second she drives with more of a lead foot and accelerates more than I do.

 

The display's have a nice brake score but they should have an acceleration score as well to indicate how much of a lead foot people may have.

[fotomoto]

 

The EPA test results are 47/47. There is no disputing that...a better question would be: is 47/44 a more realistic MPG rating than 47/47? That I would agree with. 

 

Sure there is:  http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/case/hyundai-false-advertising-miles-gallon-mpg   but there are other threads here about that.

 

The poll question is fairly open ended so vote early, vote often.       :)

[SnitGTS]

Hybrids have such a large variablility between drivers that I am not sure what they should use. 

 

My wife and I have the exact same CMAX SEL models and she averages 8-10 MPG less than me. I drive an even mix of freeway and street averaging 20 miles each way.  She drives primarily city streets.  I believe the difference correlates to two major factors.  First, She drives much shorter distances and does not get her engine adequeately warmed up and second she drives with more of a lead foot and accelerates more than I do.

 

The display's have a nice brake score but they should have an acceleration score as well to indicate how much of a lead foot people may have.

 

They do have an acceleration score, and a cruise score as well.  Flip through your options and you'll find all sorts of useful information, including the coach which is what I am referencing.  My screen is set up in the 'My View' with the Power + Threshold and Coach screens.

 

 

To answer the poll question, I don't know...  I go back and forth with it.  My car would easily pass the EPA highway test with better than a 47 mpg rating, but that doesn't reflect real life freeway driving.  My only semi-big trip on a freeway at freeway speeds I got 43 mpg, so in real work situations it is not a 47 mpg car on the freeway. I also think it is tough to qualify that for a hybrid like the C-Max which is capable of speeds of up to 62 mph in EV when the 'highway' test only hits 60.  The electric motor assists at freeway speeds but the ICE is always on, still the 43 mpg I'm getting with my C-Max is much better than the 34 mpg I got with my old Corolla on the freeway.

[Noah Harbinger]

Sure there is:  http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/case/hyundai-false-advertising-miles-gallon-mpg   but there are other threads here about that.

 

The poll question is fairly open ended so vote early, vote often.       :)

 

I can dispute whether the sun will rise tomorrow, but without concrete evidence to the contrary, it's baseless speculation. And that's pretty much what everyone is doing who lacks the capacity to reproduce the EPA tests. Including you. 

[salsaguy]

the EPA number are NOT based/chosen on what the public wants but what the govt agency specifies. this is nothing new. alsoll mfgs use the lower 62 mph or less for their highway tests.it's not reality to anyone driving in the last 30-40 yrs but that's what it is. time to write your lawmakers and govt reps to complain to change how the testing is done.it's 47/47 because that is what the test results matched for the EPA specified tests.if they put 47/37 that would be fraud as well for under reporting their values although no one would complain if they got more but it doesn't work that way.

(insert car maker name here) just puts up what the EPA says they meet

 

 

 

More like 47/37. Highway should mean 70-80mph

Edited July 9, 2013 by salsaguy

[bigalpha]

More like 47/37. Highway should mean 70-80mph

 

This x1,000,000.  The majority of Americans also probably think that 'highway' means higher speeds.

[wab]

More like 47/37. Highway should mean 70-80mph

 

 

This x1,000,000.  The majority of Americans also probably think that 'highway' means higher speeds.

 

Highway should be in the mid 30's, depending on speed.

We're still waiting on the 47/    not going to happen way too many "highway" 65+ miles EVERY tank.

 

We just returned from Colorado to N. Texas.

668 total miles

About 500 of those were at the posted (GPS corrected) speed limit of 75 MPH with AC and ECCO cruise on.

 

I thought about taking a picture...didn't think I would need it.

 

Trip 2

668 miles

34.6 MPG

Elevation change was from 8000+' in CO. to 800+' in N. TX.

1 mountain pass at the New Mexico/Colorado border on I25.

70 MPH for 80 miles in N. Mexico.

The other miles were at 30, 45 and 60 MPH with a few red lights.

 

We got 6 hyperMillingPG tailgating our motor home on the trip to CO.

 

wab

[Jmonty]

Highway should be in the mid 30's, depending on speed.

We're still waiting on the 47/    not going to happen way too many "highway" 65+ miles EVERY tank.

 

We just returned from Colorado to N. Texas.

668 total miles

About 500 of those were at the posted (GPS corrected) speed limit of 75 MPH with AC and ECCO cruise on.

 

I thought about taking a picture...didn't think I would need it.

 

Trip 2

668 miles

34.6 MPG

 

 

sounds about what i have been getting recently. 

[bigalpha]

Don't wanna brag, but I managed this today.

Edited July 9, 2013 by bigalpha

[Jmonty]

Don't wanna brag, but I managed this today.

 

lol

 

when i get some free time i'm totally going to drive to the top of Pike's Peak and start my trip meter.  that'll be 12.4 miles, all EV, with a full battery at the bottom

[bwayno]

I bought the car Oct. 2012 and have driven it at all conditions , the best mileage I can get is 37.

Even driving around our small town the EV is erratic at slow speeds. It seams as though the condition

Of the HV battery allows when the electric motor runs. Bought the car for the mileage, 8,000 on it

now, regret buying it...

[PWBarrett]

I voted Other because there was no Doesn't Matter choice.

Really, I agree with some of the other posts that say the EPA score is about comparing the same rating methodology across all cars.

So if they want to change the rating system for all cars or all hybrids, that's fine with me, but don't just change this one.

[Adair]

My vote is based solely on 2 *road trips* of 480 miles r/t each, and the 25% highway driving I do each tank of gas. The 2 road trips were virtually identical....leaving from the same place, to the same place, over the same highway, with similar loads. The main difference was temperature....April vs. July.....and use of AC. The trip in April averaged 40.7 mpg for the tank, using minimal AC. This trip, from July 7- July 9, averaged 40.2 mpg, using AC for most of the way, set at between 71* and 73*. The driving on both trips was split about the same between Jerry and I. I kept the eco-cruise between 67 and 70 and Jerry between 70 and 72. These were on pretty flat, smooth, new roads. I think if we'd kept the MPH closer to my car's *sweet spot* of 67-68 we could have done better, but on the way there.....we wanted to GET THERE, and on the way home we wanted to GET HOME!

 

47 City is easily doable on my daily commute. I think 44 is realistic, depending on terrain/weather/driving habits, etc. 

 

Still and all, I have no complaints. I've learned new ways of driving and new stuff about my car. I do not feel cheated by Ford or the EPA.

[Jmonty]

I bought the car Oct. 2012 and have driven it at all conditions , the best mileage I can get is 37.

Even driving around our small town the EV is erratic at slow speeds. It seams as though the condition

Of the HV battery allows when the electric motor runs. Bought the car for the mileage, 8,000 on it

now, regret buying it...

Maybe something is wrong with it. Did you get it looked at?

[bigalpha]

I bought the car Oct. 2012 and have driven it at all conditions , the best mileage I can get is 37.

Even driving around our small town the EV is erratic at slow speeds. It seams as though the condition

Of the HV battery allows when the electric motor runs. Bought the car for the mileage, 8,000 on it

now, regret buying it...

 What's it doing?

[viennacoup]

I voted other.  Almost all of my driving is highway.  Less than 5% is city or freeway.  I live in a large rural county where most of the highways are 50 mph.  There is one highway that is 60 mph but I rarely  use it.  The EPA needs three categories: city/highway/freeway.  Then the proper mpg for the C-Max might be 47/50/40 or something like that.

[salsaguy]

did you reset your lifetime avg mpg screen when you bought it?

did you update your car with any tsbs?

do you have eco crusie and ev+ turned on in the menus?

what are your typical temps for weather in your area?

do you use any tips posted here to improve your mileage?

 

 

 

I bought the car Oct. 2012 and have driven it at all conditions , the best mileage I can get is 37.
Even driving around our small town the EV is erratic at slow speeds. It seams as though the condition
Of the HV battery allows when the electric motor runs. Bought the car for the mileage, 8,000 on it
now, regret buying it...

[salsaguy]

Vienna, when you bought the car, what were your expectations for mpg knowing you got a hybrid when it was not your best choice for doing mostly NON city driving where a hybrid excels (as most already know). the cmax is not the only hybrid that would get lower mpgs on highway/freeway driving so why think otherwise? Did you do any research on hybrid technology?is this the first hybrid.? a gas or diesel car might have been a better choice but you still would NOT be getting 35+ mpg constantly as most are in the C-Max.

 

Edit: changed "would to would NOT"

 

 

I voted other.  Almost all of my driving is highway.  Less than 5% is city or freeway.  I live in a large rural county where most of the highways are 50 mph.  There is one highway that is 60 mph but I rarely  use it.  The EPA needs three categories: city/highway/freeway.  Then the proper mpg for the C-Max might be 47/50/40 or something like that.

Edited July 14, 2013 by salsaguy