Recall 13B07: The Guinea Pig Thread

[Jus-A-CMax]

Let me know how it goes at Galpin. I live up in Santa Clarita, but I bought the car down at Galpin and will bring it back there for at least the first few service visits. The Ford dealer up here does not give my any feeling of confidence. We bought a used car from them a few years back and they were awful. They also only had 9 C-Max's in stock when Galpin had over 100 at their storage lot. 

 

I have not scheduled anything yet, but I am closing in on the first scheduled service pretty quickly. I figured I will get a works service and the updates at about 5,000 miles.

 

Gary

 

Ask for Bill Parks. I am getting my 20,000 oild change done as well, might as well since they're having the car for such a long time. The headliner is going to take some time. He's good, he opened my bonnet and spotted some calcium water splashes...either some car has splash me with some coolant or I have a leak. I didn't even notice it but I am not an engineer. And ICE seemed fine to me.

 

End of the week is the prediction but in the meantime I am flying the Luftwaffe biplane :flyaway:

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[salsaguy]

Das is gooooooood. Mein Jus....we haf ways uf making you conVERT!!!! ;)

All hail the VW Passat. last one i had probably saved my life.

 

My dream car would be the Audi A6 or S5 but for now this is my poor mans Audi / Phaeton (amazing how much it does look like the Phaeton with my tint and chrome )

 

enjoy the limo

 

 

End of the week is the prediction but in the meantime I am flying the Luftwaffe biplane :flyaway:

Edited August 14, 2013 by salsaguy

[nsteblay]

I am seeing EV mode now at high speeds.  The car is more sensitive to acceleration at high speeds so for it to kick in at 65-75 requires mostly flat or downhill - at least that is what I've experienced to date.  I got 46.3 on the way to work and 49.5 on the way back yesterday.  I was P&G even when traveling at 70+ alternating between Positive Split Mode and Electric Mode.  

 

I actually like the change because most freeways in the Twin Cities are posted at 65 MPH.  I think it will improve my mileage overall.

 

I am not sure when the car will ever get into Negative Split Mode.  Before the fix I was experiencing decent mileage once Negative Split Mode was achieved - low 40's.  I suppose you need to go faster than 85 now to experience it - probably won't ever be driving that fast.

 

I am also noticing the EV kicking in more often for powering up hills.  I can't say for sure if that is a change.

 

The new My Ford Sync update is fantastic.  Texting on my iPhone is working now.  Voice commands seem more reliable.  Ford is doing a good job now getting regular updates and fixes out.  

 

If the car can maintain reasonable gas mileage when it gets cold I would say it is meeting my expectations that I had when I purchased the car.  After having driven a Toyota Prius all last week (rental) I will say the C-Max is a much more pleasant ride, has more power and mileage, though somewhat less (got 50 on the Prius), is still very good. 

[jhritz]

I got the update today, wow!  I feel like over the past 3 months I have gotten very in tune with my car and I know just what it will do and when, and today the car felt completely different!  It's like I am driving a different car, I would even go as far as saying the engine sounds different to me.  I felt like it was more aggressive about charging the battery and using it during acceleration & cruising at higher speeds, I also felt like the battery held a higher average state of charge.  Nothing scientific about that, just my observation, but I can tell that there is a difference.  Went on two drives, a 20 mile ride to my parents house from the dealer and a 15 mile drive home, drives that I am familiar with and know what to expect for mileage and both times my mileage was better than what I had experienced before.    

 

Agreed. I got my update last night and the first thing I noticed is that after coming out of EV, it runs at a higher rpm for a time to regain the charge.

 

I drove all the way from my house to the end of the street on EV this morning.  The engine came on when I turned onto the main road.   My first trip to work was 47.6 at 67mph, no HVAC, ECO cruise on. It went it to EV several times during the journey.  It also went into High ICE mode after the recharges.  The trip back tonight will be more interesting since Dearborn is at a lower average elevation than Ann Arbor.

[jhritz]

I am not sure when the car will ever get into Negative Split Mode.  Before the fix I was experiencing decent mileage once Negative Split Mode was achieved - low 40's.  I suppose you need to go faster than 85 now to experience it - probably won't ever be driving that fast.

I went into Negative Split a couple of times on my trip into work. At least from what I can tell, they changed the post-EV recharge RPM a little higher. Once it gets closer to the top range of the battery capacity RPM drops and it switches to negative split. One of the other posters mentioned that you can prevent a drop into EV mode to preserve negative split by blipping the throttle to stay above the EV threshold.

 

I too was wondering if Negative Split would be gone with the higher EV speed limit. I generally run at 64-67 with the old update to prevent EV-only mode at highway speeds. With the new update, I may have to pick a higher sweet spot.

Edited August 14, 2013 by jhritz

[Mamalou16201]

What is high ICE and negative split mode?

[Adair]

jhritz....do you live or work in A2? I work there but live in Milan.

 

Agreed. I got my update last night and the first thing I noticed is that after coming out of EV, it runs at a higher rpm for a time to regain the charge.

 

I drove all the way from my house to the end of the street on EV this morning.  The engine came on when I turned onto the main road.   My first trip to work was 47.6 at 67mph, no HVAC, ECO cruise on. It went it to EV several times during the journey.  It also went into High ICE mode after the recharges.  The trip back tonight will be more interesting since Dearborn is at a lower average elevation than Ann Arbor.

[Adair]

Duplicate post

Edited August 14, 2013 by Adair

[RaPieR]

 

It is still possible to use high ICE/negative split mode.  As long as engine load is near of above 1 bar, you can blip the throttle to kick ICE on and as long as load doesn't drop below the 1 bar threshold it'll hold ICE.  Before the PCM update you could only do high ice above 63/64MPH because it would kick back into EV mode.  After the update you can use high ICE at ~60MPH or so as long as load is above 1 bar.

I am not sure when the car will ever get into Negative Split Mode.  Before the fix I was experiencing decent mileage once Negative Split Mode was achieved - low 40's.  I suppose you need to go faster than 85 now to experience it - probably won't ever be driving that fast.

Edited August 14, 2013 by RaPieR

[nsteblay]

What is high ICE and negative split mode?

 

4 Modes of Operation

 

Series Mode

• Used only when vehicle is not moving and the engine is running
• Engine may be running for battery charging, cabin or battery temperature control, or catalyst warm-up.

Positive Split Mode

• Engine is ON and driving the generator motor to produce electricity
• Power from the engine is split between the direct path to the road and the path through the generator motor
• Generator power can flow to the battery or to the traction motor
• The traction motor can operate as a motor or a generator to make up the difference between the engine power and the desired power
• This is the preferred mode whenever the battery needs to be charged or when at moderate loads and low vehicle speeds

Negative Split Mode

• The engine is on and the generator motor consumes electrical energy to reduce engine speed
• The traction motor can operate as a motor or a generator to make up the difference between the engine power and the desired power
• Typical highway mode
• Occurs when the engine needs to be on, the system can not be operated in parallel mode and the battery is charged near its upper limit

Electric Mode

• The vehicle is propelled by stored electrical energy only
• The engine is turned off
• The tractive torque supplied from the traction motor
• Preferred mode whenever the desired power is low enough such that it can be produced more efficiently by electrical system than engine
• Preferred mode in reverse because the engine can not deliver reverse torque
• Separate electric pump maintains power assisted steering

The ICE High is Negative Split Mode.  These modes are described in the OBDII Theory and Operation available here.

[nsteblay]

 

It is still possible to use high ICE/negative split mode.  As long as engine load is near of above 1 bar, you can blip the throttle to kick ICE on and as long as load doesn't drop below the 1 bar threshold it'll hold ICE.  Before the PCM update you could only do high ice above 63/64MPH because it would kick back into EV mode.  After the update you can use high ICE at ~60MPH or so as long as load is above 1 bar.

 

I think I understand.  I'll need to try it when I have a stretch of freeway to test.  Minnesota has two seasons - winter and road construction :(

[Jus-A-CMax]

Rapier....Negative split mode...I dont get something here....did u double tap to drop it into that mode (ala the TheGen's thread), or did you leave it in jus eco-cruise and it's doing it, itself?

[bigalpha]

I just got the update done.  Tomorrow will be my first commute to work (~160 mile round trip).  I already have 20 fill ups for 6335 miles.  I hope that's a good enough baseline.

 

edit: I was in a 2013 Altima with PureDrive for the past two days.  The dash registered me at 34mpg on my way to work and 44mpg on my way home.  This is comparable to what the CMax shows for the same route and same speed.`

Edited August 15, 2013 by bigalpha

[salsaguy]

might want to turn on the power flow screen on the big screen in the middle

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/gallery/image/281-powerflow/

 

to help see how the battery and engine are working, along with the empower screen (as seen in a post above) on the left side of the dash.

 

What is high ICE and negative split mode?

Edited August 15, 2013 by salsaguy

[Michigan Max]

Got the headliner and FE update done yesterday. Went into electric mode at 70 MPH on the way home so the update must have worked.

[RaPieR]

Rapier....Negative split mode...I dont get something here....did u double tap to drop it into that mode (ala the TheGen's thread), or did you leave it in jus eco-cruise and it's doing it, itself?

Rapier....Negative split mode...I dont get something here....did u double tap to drop it into that mode (ala the TheGen's thread), or did you leave it in jus eco-cruise and it's doing it, itself?

No I just set my speed in eco mode and if it drops into EV i blip the throttle to start ICE. The cmax will only hold ICE if the engine load is above 1 bar. If you drop below 1 bar you hit the EV threshold and you'll enter EV mode. On a flat road I think 60mph is the mininum speed to use high ice mode. If conditions are right the car will charge the battery and mpg will climb up similar to the picture I posted. I'll try to get a video this weekend.

Edited August 15, 2013 by RaPieR

[mikekoz]

   My update took and is working, but my EV+ locations have not kicked in and I have been driving it now for 6 days. Does anybody have the link to the thread that has the trick for getting it back? I know it involved turning the car on and off a number of times. I do not think EV+ does a whole lot for your gas mileage, but would still like it to kick in. I did make sure it was on. On a side note, does EV+ just help keep the car in EV mode when you are about a quarter mile from your destination, or does it help the car stay in EV mode from the beginning and end points of EV+ locations (Ex. home to work)?

[dweiser]

Very interesting, thanks.  I might look for something that runs on my Macbook.

I'd love to know if you find a Mac version bigalpha - Windows and I parted company several years ago (thank goodness)!

[Testdriver]

It is still possible to use high ICE/negative split mode.  As long as engine load is near of above 1 bar, you can blip the throttle to kick ICE on and as long as load doesn't drop below the 1 bar threshold it'll hold ICE.  Before the PCM update you could only do high ice above 63/64MPH because it would kick back into EV mode.  After the update you can use high ICE at ~60MPH or so as long as load is above 1 bar.

 

Actually, it sounds like "hige ICE" is working the same as before. If you cruised at 50-55 MPH on a pancake flat road, it would go into high ICE since it would never go below 1 bar. I have seen this on the extremely flat backroads around the Saginaw Bay (Michigan). It's just more difficult to go below a bar at higher speeds, even if the road is not completely flat.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Testdriver

[Testdriver]

For the first time since I bought the car my heater has turned on in the morning. I noticed that the ICE turns on whenever the heater is on (at least for the first couple miles). I turn it off and it goes back to EV. Back on and immediately back to ICE. That doesn't seem efficient. As anyone with an updated PCM tested their heater to see if the behavior is different?

[RaPieR]

Actually, it sounds like "hige ICE" is working the same as before. If you cruised at 50-55 MPH on a pancake flat road, it would go into high ICE since it would never go below 1 bar. I have seen this on the extremely flat backroads around the Saginaw Bay (Michigan). It's just more difficult to go below a bar at higher speeds, even if the road is not completely flat.

Before the update I had to manually feather the throttle to use high ice if I was driving below 63/64mph. If I used eco cruise it would immediately kick into ev mode. Maybe the roads I was driving was downhill but recently I used eco cruise to hold ice at 60 mph where before it would switch to ev automatically.

[dweiser]

I had the update today and here's the results.  I made notes under the pictures.

 

 

This picture is the end of the trip with pre update.                                                                         This picture is the end of the trip post update.

 

I used cruise control because there was heavy traffic and lots of hills.  It seemed like the most efficient way to track the mpg.  Half of the trip was at 65 and the other half 70.  I also had a few times that I had to deal with traffic and slow down etc.  

 

 

Look Mom no hands  :skateboard: Don't try this at home.  There was no traffic around me and I was very careful taking this picture.   :camera: This of course is 70 mph on EV.  

Thanks!

The camera isn't level either.

:)

LOL!!!

Don

[MtnMarty]

   My update took and is working, but my EV+ locations have not kicked in and I have been driving it now for 6 days. Does anybody have the link to the thread that has the trick for getting it back? I know it involved turning the car on and off a number of times. I do not think EV+ does a whole lot for your gas mileage, but would still like it to kick in. I did make sure it was on. On a side note, does EV+ just help keep the car in EV mode when you are about a quarter mile from your destination, or does it help the car stay in EV mode from the beginning and end points of EV+ locations (Ex. home to work)?

 

Just turn the car on and off 11 times.

[mikekoz]

Just turn the car on and off 11 times.

 

 

    Do I need to do that at my start point and my destination? Thanks for the response by the way!! :worship:

[Adair]

EV plus is for 1/4 mile from your destination.......not for the whole route. So turn on/off 11 times at destination ....home, work, gym, whatever.....that you want to have EV+ recognize. Before mine went away with the update, I had 4 locations. Some reported 3.

 

    Do I need to do that at my start point and my destination? Thanks for the response by the way!! :worship: