Recall 13B07: The Guinea Pig Thread

[homestead]

The first half of my current tank was pre-update and was getting 44.6mpg.

I now have 97 miles post update on the same tank and am getting 46.1mpg since the update.

Seems to still be slowly climbing, expect it to go a little higher by the end of the tank.

This is all city driving with 2372 total miles on the car.

 

The headliner recall seems invisible to me.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Headliner - can't see nuthin but I do smell a :airquote: leather for a couple of days  :drool:

[viennacoup]

My C-Max definitely behaves differently after the update.  For example, I start up the car and drive 0.3 miles to exit my neighborhood.  The ICE does not come on.  Great.  Now I turn right and head down a fairly long, steep hill and the battery regens and is more than half charged when I come to the bottom.  Before the update, ICE would come on while I still was in my neighborhood.  But now, as I turn right and accelerate to 40 MPH, ICE runs and when I take my foot off the accelerator, it will not go into  EV mode.  Very strange!  In any event, this does not seem to affect my mpg.  On the run described I got 59.7 over a 12.5 mile route that I usually get 50-54 on.

 

My only other good comparison is the 29.5 miles from my dealer to home.  The day I bought my C-Max (May 20) I drove home very carefully and got 40.5 mpg.  The next day I had to return to the dealer and, after getting some tips on this forum, got 45.3 to the dealer and 46.3 on the drive home.  More than half of this route 60mph highway.  After the update, I did the same route getting 53.2 mpg using the AC.  The car is better broken in (2300 miles) and I am more experienced driving the car, but I suspect the update had something to do with it.  I have begun to drive a bit more aggressively by willingly going into ICE mode when the battery gets below 1/2 rather than trying to squeeze everything out of the battery.  As Jus C Max and others have advised, I try not to go above two bars for longer than a couple of seconds.

 

I still love the car and the mpg continues to climb.

[CMax-Traveler]

Hmmm...  I'm not aware of any specific gauge indicator that shows if you're in Positive or Negative Split Mode.  Positive and Negative Split Modes are only active when ICE is engaged. The way I've determined the mode is by the instant MPG.  I can tell when I'm in Negative Split Mode when MPG goes between 40 - 50 and the battery is charged 3/4 to 4/5.   When in Positive Split Mode the battery is less than 3/4 charged and I see MPG between 20 - 35.

 

How were you determining which mode you were in?  Are you sure you're not in EV mode?

 

As far as I can tell, you can only identify negative split if your display is in Engage.  EV is obvious, it says EV.  Positive split - white bar (ICE) only, upward chevron on battery.  Negative split - both White (ICE) and Blue (EV) bars, negative chevron on battery.

[JohnnOhio]

On the day I dropped mine off to get the headliner and reflash done I got 48.6 mpgs on the 15mile trip to the dealer. Going home after the update I got 42.1. Just seems to me that I lost a lot of power to the wheels after the update. It drives like a standard clutch car with the clutch slipping. RPM's are way high and the car can't hardly get out of it's own way. Takes me a 1/4 mile to get up to 55mph. I think something is seriously wrong with poor Maxie. A Prius past me on the highway this morning while I was still trying to speed up to 70. NOW THATS BAD!!!

[tehuti]

nsteblay

 

Thanks for the explanation. I am just starting to understand some of the techniques for driving to improve FE and this certainly helps. 

 

All of these acronyms make me feel like I'm back in the Navy! 

[RaPieR]

What I think he meant, and what I tried, is this:

Consider the scenario: you're driving down the highway, eco-cruise on, the car it's charging up to the 3/4 point.  Once it reaches 3/4 (or, for me, it seems it's 7/8), the threshold bar creeps up, and generally will overtake the current energy demand and drop into EV mode.  What usually happens at that point is it stays full EV and discharges to the 1/4 point, then charges.  But, if, instead, you briefly tap the accelerator and release, it'll bump it back out of EV mode for a while longer and if the battery is high enough, into negative split mode.  You have to actively bump it out of EV, though, every time it decides to go into it.  If you go down a hill, it'll switch to EV and not much you can do about that until you're going back up.

 

Unfortunately for me, the highways here are too hilly so I can't maintain negative split for any reasonable duration, so I can't really play or test with negative split to compare to full EV.

You hit the nail right on the head. The main goal is to not let EV drain the battery so when load increases again you tap the accelerator lightly to push load out of EV and start ICE again. I've made a video trying to show this. Unfortunately, I conditions weren't right and it only reached 50MPG or so.  I think the end of the video around the 2 minute and 9 minute mark shows this pretty much after I cancel out EV mode by blipping the throttle.  I've been letting EV run as long as possible as long as load doesn't pass 1 bar because it doesn't drain the battery too quickly.

http://youtu.be/j6kIhU5lD2w

 

Oh, also completed another leg of driving up to Toronto, Ontario and back to Detroit.

 

Post Update

1788.5 Total Miles 80% Highway - 45.6MPG

 

Pre-Update

4554 Total Miles 80% Highway - 44.2MPG

Edited August 19, 2013 by RaPieR

[wab]

RaPieR

 

I can't get your video to work?

Might be my    s  l  o  w    DSL?

[bigalpha]

So 40mpg is considered ice high? I thought the FE would jump significantly?

[RaPieR]

So 40mpg is considered ice high? I thought the FE would jump significantly?

 

It depends on the conditions.  I could never get the double tap ECO button to enable high ICE to work prior to the update but if the battery gets charged enough the instant MPG will jump to 50 or 60MPG.  This works pre and post update.  This is really dependent on road conditions.  What's shown in the video is a segment of my return trip from Toronto to Detroit on the 401.  It must be more uphill back to Detroit because I only managed 44 mpg when I got home but on the drive up to Toronto I averaged 48 on the dashboard.  The total round trip was 46MPG overall.  FE was hurt a bit by my fiance driving in Toronto ;-)

Edited August 20, 2013 by RaPieR

[bigalpha]

I guess I've never really noticed that.  Is there a particular speed in which high ice no longer works?

[SnitGTS]

mmm...  I'm not aware of any specific gauge indicator that shows if you're in Positive or Negative Split Mode.  Positive and Negative Split Modes are only active when ICE is engaged. The way I've determined the mode is by the instant MPG.  I can tell when I'm in Negative Split Mode when MPG goes between 40 - 50 and the battery is charged 3/4 to 4/5.   When in Positive Split Mode the battery is less than 3/4 charged and I see MPG between 20 - 35.

 

How were you determining which mode you were in?  Are you sure you're not in EV mode?

 

100% positive I was not in EV, the engine remained on the whole time I was on level ground and the charge / discharge arrow on the battery would switch between up and down maybe every 5 seconds.  When it was down (discharging) my instant MPG gauge read 40-45 and when it was up (charging) it read 45-50.  I determined what state I was in based upon your explanation in your previous post of the different modes and what I was watching.  I wish I could have taken a video but there is no way I would while driving.

 

I only ever got into EV mode when I was on a downhill slope and the instant MPG gauge shot to 60+ and turned blue.

 

Edit:  Rapier took a video, it's almost exactly what I was seeing except I never got into EV mode except on a downhill slope.  Same speed and I was driving home from Toronto too!

Edited August 20, 2013 by SnitGTS

[SnitGTS]

ou hit the nail right on the head. The main goal is to not let EV drain the battery so when load increases again you tap the accelerator lightly to push load out of EV and start ICE again. I've made a video trying to show this. Unfortunately, I conditions weren't right and it only reached 50MPG or so.  I think the end of the video around the 2 minute and 9 minute mark shows this pretty much after I cancel out EV mode by blipping the throttle.  I've been letting EV run as long as possible as long as load doesn't pass 1 bar because it doesn't drain the battery too quickly.

http://youtu.be/j6kIhU5lD2w

 

Oh, also completed another leg of driving up to Toronto, Ontario and back to Detroit.

 

Post Update

1788.5 Total Miles 80% Highway - 45.6MPG

 

Pre-Update

4554 Total Miles 80% Highway - 44.2MPG

 

Your car is doing exactly what mine was doing on my way home from Toronto, but I only ever got into EV mode on a downhill slope.  

 

Any idea why you hit 50 mpg with the ICE charging the battery (up chevron) around 75-80% charge but drops down around 40 when the EV is assisting the ICE (down chevron)?   That's blowing my mind that it works that way, it's opposite of how I think it should work...

[nsteblay]

It sounds like you were in Negative Split Mode. Instant MPG will vary depending on hills and the wind - torque required to propel the car.  I've seen instant MPG vary and get into the high 40's if not 50's.  The charge arrow will change depending on whether power is needed or taken.  You could easily see the arrow up and instant MPG increase.  On a perfectly flat surface with no wind there would still be a cycle of charging though I doubt you would see the phenomenon you describe.  

 

I figured with the update I wouldn't be seeing Negative Split Mode anymore.  I am really only using the car for commuting to and from work - congested freeway driving.  For my 21 mile commute this evening I got 54.6 MPG - that's stop and go with periods of 65-70 MPH - the CMax seems engineered for this type of driving.  With the type of driving I am doing the update was positive.  For consistent high speed freeway driving I really couldn't say if the update is positive or negative (no pun intended).  

[homestead]

When it was down (discharging) my instant MPG gauge read 40-45 and when it was up (charging) it read 45-50. 

When it read 45-50 and charging was the battery level increasing/decreasing or staying the same?

[SnitGTS]

hen it read 45-50 and charging was the battery level increasing/decreasing or staying the same?

 

I would say it stayed about the same, as you can see in Rapier's video once it gets to that 75-80% mark and the chevron changes up & down every 5 seconds or so it doesn't have much time to charge or discharge.  I'm sure the state of charge is changing but it just isn't perceptible.  

[SnitGTS]

It sounds like you were in Negative Split Mode. Instant MPG will vary depending on hills and the wind - torque required to propel the car.  I've seen instant MPG vary and get into the high 40's if not 50's.  The charge arrow will change depending on whether power is needed or taken.  You could easily see the arrow up and instant MPG increase.  On a perfectly flat surface with no wind there would still be a cycle of charging though I doubt you would see the phenomenon you describe.  

 

I figured with the update I wouldn't be seeing Negative Split Mode anymore.  I am really only using the car for commuting to and from work - congested freeway driving.  For my 21 mile commute this evening I got 54.6 MPG - that's stop and go with periods of 65-70 MPH - the CMax seems engineered for this type of driving.  With the type of driving I am doing the update was positive.  For consistent high speed freeway driving I really couldn't say if the update is positive or negative (no pun intended).  

 

In my day to day commute I never top 55 mph, my morning commute has improved since the update from 65-70 mpg to 70-73 mpg and my ride home has remained about the same at 45 mpg.  This was my first extended highway trip and it is likely to be my only for a while.  My car has 3000 miles on it now and 1000 of that was my trip last week, I've had the car a little over 3 months...

Edited August 20, 2013 by SnitGTS

[bigalpha]

My car has 3000 miles on it now and 1000 of that was my trip last week, I've had the car a little over 3 months...

 

I'm at almost exactly two months and I've put a hair over 7,000 miles on it.   :drop:

[JohnnOhio]

With much effort I managed to get 47.2 on my trip to work this morning. It's not the 55.4 or 54.8 I was getting but it's better than yesterdays 43. I'll take anything at this point.

[nsteblay]

It would be great if Ford would allow us to configure the threshold for when Negative Split Mode kicks in.  That way depending on the type of driving we could configure our cars appropriately.  It is probably some type of flash memory that holds the programming so I would imagine this isn't possible with the components they've used.

[Adair]

In my very low-tech observation, things seem to be getting better. At first I was very disappointed in the effects of the upgrade. It just seemed harder to get into EV, seemed like ICE was running ALL THE TIME, watched my MPGs fall over the first few days. It's been a little over a week now, and I don't know if it's me or the car learning, but it's seeming easier again to get into EV and my MPGs are holding steady at 47 + for 150 or so miles.

 

Maybe if my MPGs had been lower going into the upgrade, I would have seen more improvement right away, but because they were high anyway, there was less to improve............does that make any sense?

 

Anyway, just my $.02.

 

Short road trip all freeway coming up this weekend. By then there will be 2 weeks of normal stuff on this tank. We'll see what the road trip brings.

[JohnnOhio]

I drive 33 miles one way to work. 1 mile to the freeway at 55. Then 31 miles at 70 on the freeway. Then another mile on city streets to parking lot. 5 days a week. I was getting 46-48 consistantly without trying then started to see 50's. My highest was 55.4 mpg's. Then the update it dropped to 42 on my first trip to work. Today had work at it but got 47. I don't know if the car is learning or me. I still lost a lot of power after the update. I just about blow the ICE trying to merge onto the freeway to keep from getting killed. The trans is bleeding off all of the tork. It takes forever to get up to speed. I really miss the tork it had before. Had no problem getting up to speed.

 

The weekend I stay off of the freeway and drive the 2 lane highways 55 and back roads to get where I need to go. The trip to the dealership is like this. Got 47.8 driving over the day of the update and got 38 on the way home. Go figure.

 

I don't think this update is all that great.

[fbov]

...I just about blow the ICE trying to merge onto the freeway to keep from getting killed. The trans is bleeding off all of the tork. It takes forever to get up to speed. I really miss the tork it had before. Had no problem getting up to speed.

This kind of performance change sounds like something's wrong. Test reports show a 0-60 time of ~8 sec. From your note, I expect you'd have a hard time making 60 mph in twice that! Do you have EV boost when accelerating? That's the car's "ace in the hole" when you need go juice. Mileage takes a long time to measure and it's open to many variables. Acceleration is a quick test, and if you're right, the proof is as simple as asking the dealer's service advisor to keep up with you when you're driving one of their C-Max demonstrators.

 

Have fun,

Frank

Edited August 20, 2013 by fbov

[Jus-A-CMax]

A wee bit better this morning, 76 vs 72 yesterday, same drive. Same 0.28 gas used but better EV this morning. May be its still learning. Yesterday I finished at 61MPG, dissappointing but the drive felt good though. I'll keep watching it to see how it goes....kinda disappointed there is no visual MPG improvements.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[RaPieR]

Your car is doing exactly what mine was doing on my way home from Toronto, but I only ever got into EV mode on a downhill slope.  

 

Any idea why you hit 50 mpg with the ICE charging the battery (up chevron) around 75-80% charge but drops down around 40 when the EV is assisting the ICE (down chevron)?   That's blowing my mind that it works that way, it's opposite of how I think it should work...

Do you drive a gray C-Max by any chance? I pulled up behind one when I crossed back into the US at the Ambassador bridge.