Recall 13B07: The Guinea Pig Thread

[RaPieR]

I got Maxine back this evening. Driving from Galpin to the golf course, 48MPG via the freeway. Driving back from golf course...back to home....35.5MPG. I was doing 68-75 mph, trying to get the negative split mode aka ICE High MPG with the eco-cruise turned on....would not work, start stop typical bloody LA traffic....and some moron who decides to do 62 mph in the #2 lane and hog the lane with 1/2 mile of open lane. Dunderhead. 75% charge, doing 68mph and double tapping puts it into full EV eco...watch the battery run down REAL FAST.

 

I ain't seen too much :love_shower:  yet with the update...gonna hit the surface street on Monday and see whats that done. Temps not an issue, > 90F this evening.

Yeah, with the higher EV speed after the update you can't "tap down" because it'll just go into EV mode. You just have to let it run on ICE and if conditions are right it'll slowly charge the battery then MPGs will go up. Plus if load drops and it goes back into EV, I usually wait until load increases again then blip the throttle to go out of EV mode and let the battery build up into high ice again.

[C-Maxgo]

After the update on our monthly 300 mile trip we easily saw about 2 mpg better on the instantaneous fuel. We'll fill up in a couple days and post our true results.

[khern]

Sorry--not as techno savy as the majority of posters here but here is my issue with this "fix". Had it done on 8/13and am not understanding the info I'm getting since on my displays---I have the my view in a mode that shows bars for acceleration, braking and cruising. Before the upgrade my highway driving lowered the bar to halfway and turned yellow at about 75 mph, now it hits that stage at 65 mph. Now this makes no since to me if this update was supposed to improve our electric use to 85 mph. Also the braking bar is much more sensitive and the acceleration less sensitive, both of which seem strange. Actual gas mileage doesn't seem to have been effected based on trip numbers.

It appears that no one else is using this form of my view but I like it best as it helped teach me to use this hybrid (my first). But if anyone could address this I'd appreciate it, before I call the dealer and am told its all in my head or inability to understand my car!!

THANKS

[mcfarlak64]

What is ICE? Still learning here and I'm getting 56.1 MPG. Being retired I have no where special to be and I think because of this and we do not speed we are getting great gas mileage. We like the soundness of the car.

 

[mcfarlak64]

Khern, I like the graph (Bars) too I find it helpful but still learning as I have only had this car since July 10.. Just had my update yesterday at Beach Ford in Virginia beach Va. But how do I know if I got the correct update?

[khern]

I think ICE stands for internal combustion engine but I could be wrong. I have no idea how to tell if the update worked but I would assume you would have better mpg at 62-85 mph which I'm not seeing so I may take back to dealer--never a joy as they are quite condecsending.

[SnitGTS]

 got Maxine back this evening. Driving from Galpin to the golf course, 48MPG via the freeway. Driving back from golf course...back to home....35.5MPG. I was doing 68-75 mph, trying to get the negative split mode aka ICE High MPG with the eco-cruise turned on....would not work, start stop typical bloody LA traffic....and some moron who decides to do 62 mph in the #2 lane and hog the lane with 1/2 mile of open lane. Dunderhead. 75% charge, doing 68mph and double tapping puts it into full EV eco...watch the battery run down REAL FAST.

 

I ain't seen too much :love_shower:  yet with the update...gonna hit the surface street on Monday and see whats that done. Temps not an issue, > 90F this evening.

 

I was able to get it into High ICE at 67 mph, once the battery charged up to about 75% the instant fuel economy gauge would sit in the 45-50 range on flat ground.  When I was on a slight downhill grade the instant fuel economy gauge hit 60 with the ICE on!

 

Also, if you are on a slight downhill and in Eco-Cruise you can click down once to get it into EV mode.  

 

mcfarlak64, ICE is Internal Combustion Engine, EV is Electric Vehicle, click on the P&G to improve FE in your PZEV, what the hell are u talking about? link in Jus-A-CMax's tag to see all the abbreviations. 

[tehuti]

Please explain what "blip the throttle to go back in negative split mode" means?

[nsteblay]

Please explain what "blip the throttle to go back in negative split mode" means?

The C-Max uses what's called "Powersplit" architecture. It consists for 3 motors - Internal Combustion Engine (ICE), an Electric Traction Motor and a Generator Motor. People will refer to the Electric Motor and Generator Motor as the EV which is short for electric vehicle.

 

The diagram below shows the components.

 

 

The Planetary Gear System allows the motors to power the vehicle simultaneously. Ford has employed a Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) for the C-Max transmission so it has no gears. If you search for these terms in Google you find multiple articles describing the technologies in detail.

 

There are four modes for how the C-Max uses the three engines.

 

The three major ones which are straightforward to understand:

• Series Mode - When the car is stopped and the ICE is running to charge the batteries or keep the car warm.
• Positive Split Mode - When the car is moving and the ICE is running to move the car and charge the battery.
• Electric Mode - When the car is moving but the ICE is off and the EV is moving the car on its own.

The fourth mode is a bit more difficult to explain. It is called Negative Split Mode or as some refer to on the site as ICE High.

 

Negative Split Mode is used to aid the ICE when traveling at high speeds. In this mode the Generator Motor is actually used to help power the car allowing the ICE to idle as low as possible. This mode is only possible when the batteries are almost fully charged. This mode kicked in above 63 MPH before the 13B07 update as Electric Mode was only possible less than 63 MPH.  Post 13B07 the threshold was raised from 63 MPH to 85 MPH. 

 

The following diagram is useful for understanding the 13B07 upgrade.

 

 

The ECM and HPCM are essentially computers that control the car's ICE, EV and gear components.  They contain the algorithms that determine how the various components of the car will work for a given situation. The software that determines these algorithms was updated by 13B07 to allow for better MPG while driving. 

 

Post 13B07 when in ECO cruise and below 85 MPH the car will attempt to alternate between Positive Split Mode and Electric Mode for optimal gas mileage and will not use Negative Split Mode. By blipping (I am assuming pushing the accelerator briefly) while in ECO cruise it will make the car seek Negative Split Mode as opposed to alternating between Positive Split Mode and Electric Mode. I haven't tried this technique so I'll defer to those who have experience with it.

 

Personally I don't use ECO cruise much. I find that I get better mileage by having full control over acceleration. Since the 13B07 upgrade I've been averaging 50+ MPG. It takes knowledge of the modes, an understanding of the gauges and driving discipline to achieve the mileage. The great thing is I am not compromising on speed as I am staying up with traffic if not passing others on occasion. I will say that I could easily do worse if I didn't drive smartly. The C-Max definitely allows for acceleration and driving styles that won't achieve optimal mileage. Weather has been optimal though and I expect a hit in mileage as colder weather approaches.

 

I rented a Prius a few weeks ago while traveling for work.  Toyota has taken a different approach than Ford.  They have made the engines and batteries smaller, styled the car for optimal aerodynamics, and tuned the control modules for optimal MPG.  The Prius lives in its equivalent of Negative Split Mode as the ICE kicks in above 30 MPH and has achieved great mileage when traveling at 65 to 75 MPH. This results in great overall MPG but at the cost of acceleration, styling and handling. I got 50+ (about the same) with the Prius but didn't really have to worry about how I drove. The big differences for me that make me desire the C-Max over the Prius are the ability for quicker acceleration if needed, styling that is more comfortable with greater visibility and handling that is sportier.  

 

 

Edited August 18, 2013 by nsteblay

[BobJustBob]

Wow, nsteblay, thank you for the highly informative post!  I feel as though I just received a "graduate level course" in the C-Max for free.  I think I am going to be able to use some of the information in this post to boost my gas mileage a bit.

[SnitGTS]

nsteblay, I have a question and you might be the person that can answer it!  I was driving home from my vacation last week and I was driving along at 67 mph in Eco-Cruise (which I don't use often but did for this trip) and once the battery was charged about 75% the instant mpg gauge would read 40-45 during Negative Split Mode and 45-50 during Positive Split Mode on level ground.  I have the 13B07 update, if I tapped Eco-Cruise down it would go full EV but leaving it alone it would go back and forth between Negative Split Mode and Positive Split Mode.

 

Anyway, my question is why would I get better mileage in Positive Split Mode then Negative Split Mode?  I watched it do it for hours of freeway driving so this is no mistake, and others have said their car does the same thing.

 

It does not make any sense to me why I would get better gas mileage when the ICE was charging the batteries versus when the motor was assisting the ICE...

[Noah Harbinger]

It seems to me that the whole point of the update is to use EV mode more to increase overall fuel economy. GIven that that energy has to come from somewhere, that means anyone looking at the instantaneous fuel economy should notice LOWER fuel economy during periods of ICE use (since it is both driving the car and charging the engine), but LONGER periods of EV-only use. 

[sixtyeightmk2]

Hey not that it's much concern, but if you guys want a really easy way to track improvements use the CAN bus translator from http://openxcplatform.com/ to grab your vehicles info in JSON, then grab info from the gps coordinates (make sure you have time synced on your pc) and use data from forecast.io to figure out barometer, humidity, temp etc.

 

I've been doing this a while and keeping a pretty extensive log. Just had the 13B07 done and going to the workshop this weekend in San Jose.

 

--Bob

Edited August 18, 2013 by sixtyeightmk2

[bigalpha]

Firstly,  thanks for the link to forecast.io; it looks awesome as crap.

Secondly, I'm not smart enough to do those other things :D

[sixtyeightmk2]

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.esocialllc.vel&hl=en Try something like that, open up excel or google docs spreadsheet.

 

I'll try and get one setup and share it here.

 

Also check out: https://developer.forecast.io I'll see if I can bounce any ideas off folks at the workshop this weekend, I'm not smart enough to make an Android app but I think a few folks could combine the api's and JSON data to come up with a better way to track trips and mileage than the way fuelly does it.

[bigalpha]

That app looks awesome!!  Too bad I'm on an iDevice.  Honestly, I can't stand Fuelly.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Please explain what "blip the throttle to go back in negative split mode" means?

Thats a great question, pre-13b07 was easy, double tap the "-" and it would kick in the ICE High MPG. However, maybe its me, but it doesn't want to go into the negative split mode as using the same double tap kicks it into full EV. I am still playing with it on the freeway but if someone can elaborate on this "blip" I would think the whole forum would like to know as well....

[CMax-Traveler]

Thats a great question, pre-13b07 was easy, double tap the "-" and it would kick in the ICE High MPG. However, maybe its me, but it doesn't want to go into the negative split mode as using the same double tap kicks it into full EV. I am still playing with it on the freeway but if someone can elaborate on this "blip" I would think the whole forum would like to know as well....

 

What I think he meant, and what I tried, is this:

Consider the scenario: you're driving down the highway, eco-cruise on, the car it's charging up to the 3/4 point.  Once it reaches 3/4 (or, for me, it seems it's 7/8), the threshold bar creeps up, and generally will overtake the current energy demand and drop into EV mode.  What usually happens at that point is it stays full EV and discharges to the 1/4 point, then charges.  But, if, instead, you briefly tap the accelerator and release, it'll bump it back out of EV mode for a while longer and if the battery is high enough, into negative split mode.  You have to actively bump it out of EV, though, every time it decides to go into it.  If you go down a hill, it'll switch to EV and not much you can do about that until you're going back up.

 

Unfortunately for me, the highways here are too hilly so I can't maintain negative split for any reasonable duration, so I can't really play or test with negative split to compare to full EV.

[Jus-A-CMax]

What I think he meant, and what I tried, is this:

Consider the scenario: you're driving down the highway, eco-cruise on, the car it's charging up to the 3/4 point.  Once it reaches 3/4 (or, for me, it seems it's 7/8), the threshold bar creeps up, and generally will overtake the current energy demand and drop into EV mode.  What usually happens at that point is it stays full EV and discharges to the 1/4 point, then charges.  But, if, instead, you briefly tap the accelerator and release, it'll bump it back out of EV mode for a while longer and if the battery is high enough, into negative split mode.  You have to actively bump it out of EV, though, every time it decides to go into it.  If you go down a hill, it'll switch to EV and not much you can do about that until you're going back up.

 

Unfortunately for me, the highways here are too hilly so I can't maintain negative split for any reasonable duration, so I can't really play or test with negative split to compare to full EV.

 

..and here I was messing with the cruise +/-. Cool, thanks CMax-Traqveler, I'll have to try this, should be easy enuf to feather. The old way was much simpler....but we don't have any 85mph freeways here. 70 is the max I have seen....

[nsteblay]

nsteblay, I have a question and you might be the person that can answer it!  I was driving home from my vacation last week and I was driving along at 67 mph in Eco-Cruise (which I don't use often but did for this trip) and once the battery was charged about 75% the instant mpg gauge would read 40-45 during Negative Split Mode and 45-50 during Positive Split Mode on level ground.  I have the 13B07 update, if I tapped Eco-Cruise down it would go full EV but leaving it alone it would go back and forth between Negative Split Mode and Positive Split Mode.

 

Anyway, my question is why would I get better mileage in Positive Split Mode then Negative Split Mode?  I watched it do it for hours of freeway driving so this is no mistake, and others have said their car does the same thing.

 

It does not make any sense to me why I would get better gas mileage when the ICE was charging the batteries versus when the motor was assisting the ICE...

Hmmm...  I'm not aware of any specific gauge indicator that shows if you're in Positive or Negative Split Mode.  Positive and Negative Split Modes are only active when ICE is engaged. The way I've determined the mode is by the instant MPG.  I can tell when I'm in Negative Split Mode when MPG goes between 40 - 50 and the battery is charged 3/4 to 4/5.   When in Positive Split Mode the battery is less than 3/4 charged and I see MPG between 20 - 35.

 

How were you determining which mode you were in?  Are you sure you're not in EV mode?

Edited August 19, 2013 by nsteblay

[JohnnOhio]

I am not happy with this updated software they installed. I lost 5 mpg's on the freeway. Before the update I was getting 47-49mpg's on my trips to work.( even had some 50"s ) This morning after the update 43MPG   :cry: WHAT HAPPENED?

 

Before update 70 on the freeway instant mpg gage would run at 40-45. Now 35-40. The tork is gone. Takes a 1/4 mile to get up to speed now and rpm's stay high. ( Like a Prius)

 

Used to cruise at 70 with tach between 2nd and 3rd line Now runs above the 3rd line consistantly.( 3/4 OF THE GAGE) EV will engage only on any down hill runs but only a short time on the long level runs. (1 mile or less at 70)

 

I don't like this update AT ALL. :swear:

 

I want my old car back!!!!!  I loved it the way it was.

[Jus-A-CMax]

I am not happy with this updated software they installed. I lost 5 mpg's on the freeway. Before the update I was getting 47-49mpg's on my trips to work.( even had some 50"s ) This morning after the update 43MPG   :cry: WHAT HAPPENED?

 

Before update 70 on the freeway instant mpg gage would run at 40-45. Now 35-40. The tork is gone. Takes a 1/4 mile to get up to speed now and rpm's stay high. ( Like a Prius)

 

Used to cruise at 70 with tach between 2nd and 3rd line Now runs above the 3rd line consistantly.( 3/4 OF THE GAGE) EV will engage only on any down hill runs but only a short time on the long level runs. (1 mile or less at 70)

 

I don't like this update AT ALL. :swear:

 

I want my old car back!!!!!  I loved it the way it was.

 

Let it run for a week and keep good stats. Surprisingly, my number was DOWN on my surface street run - 72MPG vs 78-82 MPGs that I normally get but I had silly traffic on parts of my route this morning which could have effected it.

 

I was hoping for a mid 80s run. Yeah. Right.

 

I'll keep at it and its still a "play" tank to figure this out and also this new ICE High MPG "blip" thing.

[Adair]

I'm on my first tank with the complete upgrade and I feel like I'm having to learn to drive all over again.I did slip into EV @ 70mph on the highway yesterday.........for about 20 seconds. And I do see the blue threshold bars on the highway over 62mph now, But the around town, back and forth to work daily stuff is different. Tank average with 150 miles on it is 46. something, but it seems to be more of a struggle to keep it there. I definitely liked the *partial update* that I had at first. But, there's the whole (bad word alert) winter thing coming up, and the upgrade may help us in the North more then.

 

I'm not as savvy with the technical terms as you guys, but, all in all, I'm not seeing what I thought I would so far from this upgrade.

[GreenChicago]

Reading all these initially mixed reviews really makes me not want to schedule mine! Can anybody comment on the headliner modification? Did they do a neat job? Can you even tell they ripped the roofline open to do this?

 

Waiting and wondering here... thanks in advance!

[bigalpha]

I'm on my first tank with the complete upgrade and I feel like I'm having to learn to drive all over again.I did slip into EV @ 70mph on the highway yesterday.........for about 20 seconds. And I do see the blue threshold bars on the highway over 62mph now, But the around town, back and forth to work daily stuff is different. Tank average with 150 miles on it is 46. something, but it seems to be more of a struggle to keep it there. I definitely liked the *partial update* that I had at first. But, there's the whole (bad word alert) winter thing coming up, and the upgrade may help us in the North more then.

 

I'm not as savvy with the technical terms as you guys, but, all in all, I'm not seeing what I thought I would so far from this upgrade.

I'm going to put a couple more tanks through mine before I can say if it's made a difference or not.  So far, it doesn't seem to have affected the FE much for me (mostly interstate driving).

 

Reading all these initially mixed reviews really makes me not want to schedule mine! Can anybody comment on the headliner modification? Did they do a neat job? Can you even tell they ripped the roofline open to do this?

 

Waiting and wondering here... thanks in advance!

 

They did the headliner recall on mine and you can't tell anything.  I believe they pull the headliner down to install extra padding.