Recurrence of battery failure

[Kelleytoons]

Can someone tell me if any of the 2014 CMax SE's have had any battery problems?

 

While there is no one absolute cause for the battery problems, it *seems* there is at least some evidence that those vehicles without MFT (that is, factory radio only) have more issues than those with MFT.  And I think most (all?) SEL models have MFT.   The factory standard radio may have been (and perhaps still is) at least one source of some problems.

 

We bought a 2014 SE with MFT and no issues so far but as with any anecdotal information it's not statistically significant (and it could fail tomorrow -- or a year from now).  What I'd like to see are folks in that battery thread report their car not only by SE or SEL but also by equipment package but it's probably too late to quantify that (the other thing that would be important to quantify would be weather conditions, as moisture seems to play some role in failures as well).  

[salman]

There is a lot of information about this on the TSB/Maintanence threads about the 12 volt problems:

 

1) 2014 models have had the problem, too (direct personal evidence, details posted on the other threads)

 

2) I think there is little or no evidence that the problem has any relation to MFT or no MFT.

 

3) There is abundant evidence the problem has mostly and mainly been caused by water intrusion in electrical connectors, on the main wiring harness and the coolant pump. The evidence is 1) connectors have been found to be fouled with water and corrosion, 2) there is direct evidence of the coolant pump continuing to run when it should be off, 3) there is some evidence from real world testing that seems to indicate that changing these bad connectors has prevent recurrence of the dead 12 volt problem - in my case no dead 12 volts since April.

 

4) My advice is to read all the threads, collect all the TSB numbers and all the information about what Ford engineers have told service departments to do, and then tell your service department to contact Ford engineers on the hot line and do all those things. If your service department won't do that, then go to a different Ford dealer for service. The warranty is good at all Ford dealer service departments, and some are better than others.

[BullDurham]

There is a lot of information about this on the TSB/Maintanence threads about the 12 volt problems:

 

1) 2014 models have had the problem, too (direct personal evidence, details posted on the other threads)

 

2) I think there is little or no evidence that the problem has any relation to MFT or no MFT.

 

3) There is abundant evidence the problem has mostly and mainly been caused by water intrusion in electrical connectors, on the main wiring harness and the coolant pump. The evidence is 1) connectors have been found to be fouled with water and corrosion, 2) there is direct evidence of the coolant pump continuing to run when it should be off, 3) there is some evidence from real world testing that seems to indicate that changing these bad connectors has prevent recurrence of the dead 12 volt problem - in my case no dead 12 volts since April.

 

4) My advice is to read all the threads, collect all the TSB numbers and all the information about what Ford engineers have told service departments to do, and then tell your service department to contact Ford engineers on the hot line and do all those things. If your service department won't do that, then go to a different Ford dealer for service. The warranty is good at all Ford dealer service departments, and some are better than others.

Good summary, Salman.  You are someone who knows the problem firsthand and has researched it thoroughly.  Unfortunately, even if the dealer does everything Ford suggests, the problem is not necessarily solved.  My car was towed to the dealer in early July.  I sent a PM to Ashley and she was in contact with the dealer.  They kept the car for two weeks and did everything they could.  Michelle, of Ford Customer Service, finally called me and admitted that they were unable to solve the problem right now.   She said the problem had been "escalated" to Engineering.  The service advisor wrote on my receipt:  "SSM44559 Engineers are still working on a fix for this problem."  

 

I assume that SSM44559 is some sort of technical memo from Ford to dealers.  Anyone have any idea what it says?

[Kelleytoons]

If changing bad connectors solved the problem Ford would be doing that on all these cars... and the problem would be solved.  Clearly that's not the case, and simply alerting Ford dealers doesn't help in that regard.  If Michelle said that Engineering is still working on the problem, and we stipulate these are not dumb folks, then changing connectors isn't the answer.

 

It may be AN answer, and it may solve SOME specific problem, but I am still of the opinion that the factory radio plays a part in at least some of these issues.  I think it's pretty clear this "problem" of dead batteries is a hydra, with many causes and perhaps (in the most unfortunate cases) some of the folks who suffer suffer from more than one cause (because one cause is pretty easy for most engineers to track down).  I hope for all of you who suffer these issues you find some resolution (and I would also hope you'd understand if I pray that I DON'T fall victim to this particular fault).

[salman]

Kelleytoons

 

The last TSB on the matter (unless there has been a new one I have missed) promised another TSB this summer that would address the connector on the coolant pump.

 

 

In fact Ford is changing the coolant on some cars with 12 volt problems. They did on mine in April, and it seems to have worked. And they did it on mine because they had already been doing it on others. My car was not the first. The engineers suggested my service department should change the pump because they had found it worked on other cars.

 

Also, a key point about the electrical connector problems is that they can and have been positively identified as problems. Visual inspection has shown that water was fouling and corroding the contacts in the connection. Unlike Fords early focus on the infotainment module back in early 2013 (which was a shot in the dark), the electrical connector repairs/replacements is addressing a definite real problem. The connectors are supposed to be water tight.

 

There have also been others who have been told by their service department that Ford does not yet have a remedy for the coolant pump connector - this demonstrates that individual service departments are different, and so too are the many individual engineers who answer Ford's hotline for service techs. Until the new TSB comes out there will not be universal for all Ford engineers and techs to follow, and even then at the service department end there will be some departments that check for the TSBs, and others will make excuses and be lazy.

 

Last, it is possible that there might be more causes of the 12 volt episodes beyond just the bad electrical connectors. But, so far, we don't have evidence of that (If anyone has had connectors checked and changed and packed with water-proofing grease and has had the coolant pump changed AND STILL HAD ANOTHER DEAD BATTERY EPISODE AFTER THAT, then please let us all know).

[salman]

Good summary, Salman.  You are someone who knows the problem firsthand and has researched it thoroughly.  Unfortunately, even if the dealer does everything Ford suggests, the problem is not necessarily solved.  My car was towed to the dealer in early July.  I sent a PM to Ashley and she was in contact with the dealer.  They kept the car for two weeks and did everything they could.  Michelle, of Ford Customer Service, finally called me and admitted that they were unable to solve the problem right now.   She said the problem had been "escalated" to Engineering.  The service advisor wrote on my receipt:  "SSM44559 Engineers are still working on a fix for this problem."  

 

I assume that SSM44559 is some sort of technical memo from Ford to dealers.  Anyone have any idea what it says?

 

Do you know what they checked, tested, and attempted to repair/change? Do you know whether they checked the connectors, and then packed them with grease? Did they change the coolant pump?

 

How do they know they have not solved the problem? The only way to know is by real world testing, which means waiting to see if the dead 12 volt problem happens again. Did your shop try some fix and then found the 12 volt battery dead the next day?

 

If you have posted all these details earlier or elsewhere, then i apologize for not being up to date on recent weeks of posting.

[koctail]

Hmmm, good thing I read this thread...I was poised to lease a 14 CMax Energi, but now really questioning pulling the trigger. My current car is an 07 Civic Hybrid and there is a very long thread similar to this one in some ways in the civic hybrid forums but for problems with the Hybrid Battery system...I have already had my Hybrid Battery replaced once in my car....goodness it was done under warranty. I had told myself I wasn't going to get another hybrid, but the car pool lane sticker is soooo tempting for me. Other than that I wouldn't even be considering the car. Seems like in 14's the issue hasn't been resolved. Are there similar issues with the Fusion?

[kostby]

Hmmm, good thing I read this thread...

Seems like in 14's the issue hasn't been resolved.

This thread is all about dead 12-volt batteries, and primarily the C-MAX Hybrid models, not the Energi models (though some people are registered in all the forums and do cross-post)

 

To my knowledge, there are NO reported issues with the hybrid High Voltage Batteries in either the C-MAX Hybrid, or the C-MAX Energi, 2+ years into production. 

 

Check out the Energi-specific C-MAX forum and the Fusion Hybrid and Fusion Energi forums for specifics on those models.

Edited August 19, 2014 by kostby

[Adrian_L]

It really boils down to your comfort zone in terms of risk.  Personally, I'd buy a C-max again in a heartbeat, provided it was an SEL and built in fall 2013 or later.   The SE wasn't an option for me (kids-leather seats thank you) but if I had read all the battery posts before I bought, I still would have bought.  I confess I was hooked after the test drive but got a general sense from my car-guy buddies that Ford had upped their game in recent years.

 

Can you fit a Fusion in a car pool lane??  (Thanks Kostby--no Fusion discussion here please)

Edited August 19, 2014 by Adrian_L

[hybridbear]

Hmmm, good thing I read this thread...I was poised to lease a 14 CMax Energi, but now really questioning pulling the trigger. My current car is an 07 Civic Hybrid and there is a very long thread similar to this one in some ways in the civic hybrid forums but for problems with the Hybrid Battery system...I have already had my Hybrid Battery replaced once in my car....goodness it was done under warranty. I had told myself I wasn't going to get another hybrid, but the car pool lane sticker is soooo tempting for me. Other than that I wouldn't even be considering the car. Seems like in 14's the issue hasn't been resolved. Are there similar issues with the Fusion?

The Energi charges the 12V battery when the HVB is being charged. I don't think there have been any Energi owners with 12V battery issues that didn't have a specific cause (like leaving the lights on). Fusion Hybrid owners have not had battery issues.

[jwse30]

I just joined the forum after my wife's 2014 C-Max Hybrid joined the dead battery club this morning. Here's my observations of our problem:

 

The car started immediately after a jump start from my truck. It took longer to find where they wanted the ground connection to be made than to jump it.

 

The 0 key on the radio works (I saw on this thread that this was a problem on some cars with this problem)

 

Only the driver rear power window would work for a few minutes after the car was running. The window lock switch didn't have an effect on the windows working or not.

 

The car has been ours for about three weeks and has about 2500 miles on it.

 

This car has remote start; there was a few posts about radio frequency (made in jest I am fairly sure...) that made me think about this one. When you press the button, it doesn't really "start" anything that you could hear. Wouldn't it be something if all the cars that had battery problems had remote starters that were reacting to either buttons being held closed in a purse or pocket or to stray interference?

 

The day after we bought this car we drove it on a roughly 1800 mile round trip journey. About 500 miles later (2 weeks) we have a dead battery.

 

That's about all the useful information I have on this occurance.

 

J White

[sidedrum]

All these things to monitor the battery or go turn the key at night when you hear it doing something are ridiculous. Not the suggestions, but the fact that you would have to do any of them. :) We love the car. Handling, features, how fast it is if you need it, mileage, everything. Except that our battery has been dead twice now. I can't have a car like that, and we shouldn't have to deal with that... It's not reliable and not safe if my wife needs to take the kids to the hospital or something...

[Cmax lover]

All these things to monitor the battery or go turn the key at night when you hear it doing something are ridiculous. Not the suggestions, but the fact that you would have to do any of them. :) We love the car. Handling, features, how fast it is if you need it, mileage, everything. Except that our battery has been dead twice now. I can't have a car like that, and we shouldn't have to deal with that... It's not reliable and not safe if my wife needs to take the kids to the hospital or something...

 

I agree totally.  I had the two dead batteries within a week of each other.  40 days at the dealer.  Two weeks ago, the dealer did 4 new updates  on my car and I haven't had any problems with the battery.  Keeping my fingers crossed. 

[Adrian_L]

"Gee honey, you forgot to wake me at 3 a.m. so I can see if my battery is draining".

 

I agree 100%.  Ridiculous.  Every night, should I disconnect the battery ground strap on my NEW CAR as well??  

 

I can't say enough good things about my C-max, but if my wife gets stranded with her 80 year-old father and our 3 year-old daughter, I'll have more than caustic words for my dealer.

[RobMax]

...the last time I counted the reports of battery problems on this site, 66% were the SE model, 20% were SEL and 14% Energi. However, one needs to know the sales volume by model for those numbers to be correctly interpreted. One would reasonably expect the SE to be the most popular model due to its lower cost, and the Energi the lowest volume seller due to its higher cost and loss of trunk space due to the larger battery, but I've never seen Ford provide those figures.

 

As such, there is a fairly good chance that the percentage of battery-problems-by-model figures tracks closely to the relative numbers of each type sold. If so, that means one's chance of ending up with a battery-problem car are about the same no matter which model one buys...

 

This needs repeated and understood. It's misleading to think that the poll results can provide any useful data, as variables like sales volume by model, and who happened to own which model, and who actually answered the poll questions, create too many unknowns as to make any data gathered useless.

 

 

Finding a parasitic load isn't rocket science. I do it all the time on GM's, Ford's, Toyota's, Chrysler's,

Honda's, and whatever vehicle comes into the shop with battery draw problems. Been doing it since 1976

 

 

This is true if the parasitic load is constant, but it clearly is not constant, as other posters have verified. If the load was constant you would awaken to a dead battery daily. As this is not the case, the load obviously occurs rarely/occasionally and therefore is difficult to track, diagnose, and resolve. It could likely be multiple systems and/or modules that just randomly "bug out" for various unknown reasons, which would make it next to impossible to diagnose and resolve, which sounds exactly like where Ford is in fixing this issue.

[drdiesel1]

This is true if the parasitic load is constant, but it clearly is not constant, as other posters have verified. If the load was constant you would awaken to a dead battery daily. As this is not the case, the load obviously occurs rarely/occasionally and therefore is difficult to track, diagnose, and resolve. It could likely be multiple systems and/or modules that just randomly "bug out" for various unknown reasons, which would make it next to impossible to diagnose and resolve, which sounds exactly like where Ford is in fixing this issue.

You also need to understand the battery will be drained (low SOC) and over time it becomes weak to the point

it fails when it can't recover from the load. IF the dealers are keeping these cars for multiple days, then they should have

no problem driving and monitoring them overnight for the time the vehicle is in the shop. It's not a sudden dead battery

problem. It's a long term issue that the owner never notices until the battery becomes unable to start the car after being

drained over time. Without knowing the SOC curve over time, it makes it look like sudden failure and I can assure you,

it's not. It's a long-term draw that force the battery to fail. Batteries don't fail overnight unless they have a bad cell.

Edited August 27, 2014 by drdiesel1

[RobMax]

You also need to understand the battery will be drained (low SOC) and over time it becomes weak to the point

it fails when it can't recover from the load. IF the dealers are keeping these cars for multiple days, then they should have

no problem driving and monitoring them overnight for the time the vehicle is in the shop. It's not a sudden dead battery

problem. It's a long term issue that the owner never notices until the battery becomes unable to start the car after being

drained over time. Without knowing the SOC curve over time, it makes it look like sudden failure and I can assure you,

it's not. It's a long-term draw that force the battery to fail. Batteries don't fail overnight unless they have a bad cell.

 

I must be missing something, but this only makes sense to me if the 12V battery is never recharging at all during vehicle operation. I don't see how that's possible. Are there posts in other threads where this constant load is documented? Please link to it so I can learn more about it.

I look at CMax-Traveler's post below and I think it describes what sounds like an intermittent load leading to sudden failure. Is what he describing below not what other threads/posts prove is normally happening to others? Again, please link to those threads/posts so it'll help me understand the issue better. I'm just assuming what he described is typically what's causing the dead battery issues, because his experience is not indicative of a constant load causing a low SoC.  Again though, maybe his issue isn't indicative of the problem everyone else sees. I just think it's odd how this constant load is not being caught by Ford's best and brightest, and why it appears so often, and so suddenly. I'm not sure why you state batteries don't fail overnight unless they have a bad cell though -- they can fail any time a load is applied that drains them to that point of failure though right? Much like leaving your headlights on (in an older car, LOL) could make it fail. Or am I not understanding what you meant by failure?

 

What I'd really like to know is if the electrical system has a low-voltage cut-off of some kind where it'll keep the battery from discharging too much. I would think if that system worked correctly then this thread wouldn't exist.

 

I have a voltage meter plugged into the 12v jack in the trunk compartment.  I've been checking it every morning before I unlock the car, so it reflects the accurate "sleep" state voltage.  For the past week, it has been 12.5v, which according to this chart, means roughly 90% charge.  I also, fortunately, checked it last night when I took the trash out around 1am, and it was still at 12.5v.  This morning at 9:30am, the car was dead, and the voltmeter read 5.2v.  I had Ford Roadside Assistance come and jump the car.

 

Between May 8 and today I've had no problems.  But, for some reason, overnight, *poof* the battery discharged.  I have no explanation.  It rained *hard* on Monday, but nothing since, and I haven't had the car washed recently, so I don't see how water intrusion could be a problem in this case.  The car was locked this morning, so it wasn't that I left it unlocked.  Ford has applied all of the software updates (at least up to May 29, including the DC-to-DC converter update), so it's current.  I'm not totally up to speed on all the latest dead battery news, but those are all of the potential causes I'm aware of.

 

I don't see how charging the battery every 3 months would do anything, given that it died in less than two months on a brand new battery.  Ford has had my car for about two weeks over the past year to try and diagnose it, and I have an ammeter that I've used as well, clamped around the negative cable coming off of the battery, to perform my own parasitic load test - there is no parasitic load under normal circumstances.  There's clearly something that triggers a problem under very specific, rare, occasions.  Or, perhaps, the 12v battery is just under-engineered.  Coincidentally, I've noticed all of my "dead car" issues have occurred when the overnight temperature was in the upper 50's, so perhaps that's also a clue.

 

I dunno.  I sincerely hope Ford can solve the problem soon, because yeah this is an amazing car, but this battery problem sucks.

 

[RobMax]

Everyone should own a battery charger. Especially C-Max owners. http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SSC-1500A-CA-SpeedCharge-Charger-Battery/dp/B000H961YI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406485546&sr=8-1&keywords=1500+ship+n+shore+charger

 

You'll never suffer this problem again if you use it to maintain your battery every 3 to 6 months.

I use it on my non hybrid vehicles every 6 months. My wire's original car battery lasted 8 years to the month

by being serviced on a regular basis. The C-Max is no different, IMO.  It's a small battery and requires more

frequent charging due to the issue's Ford hasn't been able to correct. Just use it and you'll be very happy.

 

What do you mean by using a charger to maintain your battery every 3 to 6 months? Are you saying that your vehicles don't adequately charge their batteries, or that you don't drive them often enough to keep them charged? I don't see why a battery charger would be necessary otherwise. 

What do you mean by your wife's battery "being serviced on a regular basis"? What did that entail? Simple charging with this device? Again, why was that necessary?

I take your last comment that the C-Max "requires more frequent charging" means the C-Max isn't charging the battery correctly either? What does the size matter in this case?

 

 

I don't believe the dealer properly charged your battery. If the parasitic load is that bad, they should be able to find it.

Maintaining a battery will keep it from dying due to continued low SOC. 

If your battery has been low all it's life, dead and only jump started, it's not a wonder why it dies all the time. 

I've been using this charge for the last 5 years or so. It works and that's the bottom line.

Allowing a battery to be continually discharged is a death sentence.

Trusting that a dealer properly charged your battery is as bad as believing what the salesman tell you  :lol:

 

 

Why don't you believe the dealer properly charged his battery? Do you mean there's a wrong way to charge the battery?  If so, what is that wrong way, and how could it be verified? Or did you mean you don't think they fully recharged his battery?

What do you mean by "maintaining a battery"? Do you mean charging it on a charger? Again, it sounds as if you're saying the C-Max isn't charging the battery, or again that there is a constant load. This is the first I've read about either a non-charging issue, or a constant load issue, so I want to ensure I understand you completely.

[RobMax]

I googled some other issues and came upon this thread our good Dr started a year ago, and while I don't quite understand it yet, it does have excellent points that I think can answer most (all?) the questions I asked in my last 2 posts. Drdiesel, if there is any other good reading material on what you've been talking about, please give us more links. Thanks!

 

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/1645-12-volt-battery-soc/

[jdbob]

I see two problems. First is if the battery isn't fully charged on a regular basis sulfation can occur, especially if the battery is left discharged which is common for cars sitting at dealerships. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead–acid_battery#Sulfation_and_desulfation

 

Second is a problem with one or more computers in the car failing to shutdown (go to sleep) or possibly waking up when they shouldn't be. Computers like the infotainment system are fairly powerful and could drain the battery overnight, just like leaving your lights on. Others may not take much power themselves but control electrical equipment that does. Having a sulfated battery just makes it worse since the battery is holding less energy to begin with.

 

I've had two instances of a drained battery that I think I've narrowed down to the cell phone modem in my Energi. It appears that after being driven in locations with the correct cell phone coverage (AT&T 2G Data) and then returning here to the middle of nowhere that it doesn't shut off. I removed it earlier this year and will have a chance to test my theory next month when I get back from a trip to California. But this is the Hybrid forum so this problem isn't relevant since there is no cell phone modem in the Hybrid C-Max.

[Adrian_L]

RobMax, 

 

Just to be clear we're talking 12volt starting batteries.  Recreational vehicle deep-cycle batteries are a whole other story and do require special care to keep them happy.

 

I've been tinkering with cars for a long time.  I had a quick look in all my service manuals---nothing about "maintaining" or "servicing" your battery with a trickle charger.  Then I took a look at a battery-specialist website:  nothing there.  But they did have a "maintanence" section:  clean the terminals, fill up will distilled water.  The battery in my Audi A6 was still going strong after 9 years--all I did was drive it regularly. 

 

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with putting an intelligent charger on your battery, especially if you don't drive it regularly.  But if you do drive it regularly, the alernator (or DC/DC converter) will maintain your battery by topping up the charge.  For a new car, it's superfluous.   

[RobMax]

I see two problems. First is if the battery isn't fully charged on a regular basis sulfation can occur, especially if the battery is left discharged which is common for cars sitting at dealerships. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead–acid_battery#Sulfation_and_desulfation

 

Second is a problem with one or more computers in the car failing to shutdown (go to sleep) or possibly waking up when they shouldn't be. Computers like the infotainment system are fairly powerful and could drain the battery overnight, just like leaving your lights on. Others may not take much power themselves but control electrical equipment that does. Having a sulfated battery just makes it worse since the battery is holding less energy to begin with.

 

I've had two instances of a drained battery that I think I've narrowed down to the cell phone modem in my Energi. It appears that after being driven in locations with the correct cell phone coverage (AT&T 2G Data) and then returning here to the middle of nowhere that it doesn't shut off. I removed it earlier this year and will have a chance to test my theory next month when I get back from a trip to California. But this is the Hybrid forum so this problem isn't relevant since there is no cell phone modem in the Hybrid C-Max.

 

I remember reading that post late last night -- you took a pic after having permanently removed that module. Since my own SE was made in May and wasn't sold to me til 10 days ago, I'm going to charge my battery before the wife gets stranded and pissed, just in case.

 

RobMax, 

 

Just to be clear we're talking 12volt starting batteries.  Recreational vehicle deep-cycle batteries are a whole other story and do require special care to keep them happy.

 

I've been tinkering with cars for a long time.  I had a quick look in all my service manuals---nothing about "maintaining" or "servicing" your battery with a trickle charger.  Then I took a look at a battery-specialist website:  nothing there.  But they did have a "maintanence" section:  clean the terminals, fill up will distilled water.  The battery in my Audi A6 was still going strong after 9 years--all I did was drive it regularly. 

 

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with putting an intelligent charger on your battery, especially if you don't drive it regularly.  But if you do drive it regularly, the alernator (or DC/DC converter) will maintain your battery by topping up the charge.  For a new car, it's superfluous.   

 

Based on anecdotal evidence here it doesn't sound as though the current set up on the C-Max is as robust as your Audi was, so may not be a good comparison. I'm new to the whole SoC aspect to charging and battery systems, but it certainly sounds as if there are some unresolved issues with how Ford is trying to maintain reliability. Sounds like a combination of factors could be at play here. I would doubt any service manual would have anything about battery service, as it would hopefully be assumed that battery charge wouldn't be an issue, much like with your Audi. 

Edited August 27, 2014 by RobMax

[Adrian_L]

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.  I wasn't comparing Audi to C-max, I was simply pointing out that starting batteries generally last a long time without trickle charging every 3 or 6 months.  And if it was beneficial, don't you think it would have become "established wisdom" --i.e. part of service manuals, battery experts maintanence suggestions, tune-up schedules etc.  Why not?   

 

I'm glad you quoted C-max Traveller:

" I also, fortunately, checked it last night when I took the trash out around 1am, and it was still at 12.5v.  This morning at 9:30am, the car was dead, and the voltmeter read 5.2v.  I had Ford Roadside Assistance come and jump the car"

 

So we have clear evidence that a) the C-max charged the battery correctly and b)it still went dead.  I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but that would suggest this problem has nothing to do with SOC.

 

Again, just one man's opinion, and while charging your battery every 3 or 6 months won't do any harm.  It won't help much either.

[RobMax]

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.  I wasn't comparing Audi to C-max, I was simply pointing out that starting batteries generally last a long time without trickle charging every 3 or 6 months.  And if it was beneficial, don't you think it would have become "established wisdom" --i.e. part of service manuals, battery experts maintanence suggestions, tune-up schedules etc.  Why not?   

 

I'm glad you quoted C-max Traveller:

" I also, fortunately, checked it last night when I took the trash out around 1am, and it was still at 12.5v.  This morning at 9:30am, the car was dead, and the voltmeter read 5.2v.  I had Ford Roadside Assistance come and jump the car"

 

So we have clear evidence that a) the C-max charged the battery correctly and b)it still went dead.  I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but that would suggest this problem has nothing to do with SOC.

 

Again, just one man's opinion, and while charging your battery every 3 or 6 months won't do any harm.  It won't help much either.

 

I wasn't clear enough either. LOL I knew you weren't not comparing them, I was merely trying to say it sounds like the Audi seemingly kept the battery charged/maintained better than many people's C-Max, for whatever reason. Sounds like some peoples' (all?) C-Max charging systems often just aren't configured properly somehow, or there's a constant/intermittent load, or... who knows.

 

Whatever the normal case may be for these cars, IF any given charging system is working properly there would be no need to include anything regarding supplemental charging/maintaining in a service manual or elsewhere. Sounds to me like Ford, like any manufacturer, simply thought the charging system would work well enough not to need an occasional/supplemental charge so they didn't bother writing a process to do it, or a TSB to be aware of it. All things being equal, if everything is working the way it should, there wouldn't be all these dead battery problems.

 

I'm still confused on whether C-Max Traveler's verified intermittent load problem is typical of the dead battery problem, or if everyone else has a different problem entirely, but I certainly would like an answer on what to be aware of and be prepared for. I know in another thread the drdiesel said a usb port appeared responsible for draining his battery -- I wonder if that could be a common issue among others, or if it's again just an intermittent, and sometimes errant system/module simply hanging and not shutting down properly after vehicle shutdown.

 

EDIT:  C-Max Traveler, can you provide info on the specific device you're using to check vehicle voltage? I'd like to check that out.

Edited August 27, 2014 by RobMax

[jdbob]

Sounds to me like Ford, like any manufacturer, simply thought the charging system would work well enough not to need an occasional/supplemental charge so they didn't bother writing a process to do it, or a TSB to be aware of it. All things being equal, if everything is working the way it should, there wouldn't be all these dead battery problems.

 

There have been TSB's about the 12V battery. They made some changes in the software in the charger(s) to be more aggressive, especially during cold temperatures. I noticed that after I took my car in for software updates that the battery voltage tends to be higher and that when plugged in it often spends more time just charging the 12V battery.

 

Note: The Hybrid has one way to charge the 12V battery - the DC/DC converter charges it from the HVB. The Energi has an extra charger - an AC/DC converter that charges the battery from the AC charge cable. Each has it's own computer of course....