Recurrence of battery failure

[plus 3 golfer]

If the battery is "dead", charging at a regulated 13.7 V will take a very long time to recharge the battery.  I don't recall what the "maintenance charge" voltage is for a 12 V battery but it is likely around 13.2 V or maybe higher. Older car alternators used to regulate the voltage around 13.8 +V.  But in modern cars, the alternator usually regulates around 14.2 V and higher. I've heard as high as 14.6 V.  

 

TSB 13-6-23  supposedly did raise the voltage on the DC/DC converter.  But I don't believe it was a mandatory update.  I don't believe it ever showed up on my C-Max ETIS unless it was included in other updates  But in my infrequent monitoring of my voltage, I've never seen 14 V or higher.

 

 

[Zathrus]

My charging voltage is approximately 14.5 V, but I had TSB 13-6-23 applied after my first dead battery. TSB 13-6-23 raises the charging voltage for vehicles that operate in cold winter climates. I don't recall what my charging voltage was prior to TSB application, but I assume it was close to the 13.8 V that Plus 3 Golfer is seeing.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Zathrus

[dmk2000]

If the battery is "dead", charging at a regulated 13.7 V will take a very long time to recharge the battery.  I don't recall what the "maintenance charge" voltage is for a 12 V battery but it is likely around 13.2 V or maybe higher. Older car alternators used to regulate the voltage around 13.8 +V.  But in modern cars, the alternator usually regulates around 14.2 V and higher. I've heard as high as 14.6 V.  

 

TSB 13-6-23  supposedly did raise the voltage on the DC/DC converter.  But I don't believe it was a mandatory update.  I don't believe it ever showed up on my C-Max ETIS unless it was included in other updates  But in my infrequent monitoring of my voltage, I've never seen 14 V or higher.

Perhaps it would take a long time to charge 12 V dead battery, but in my case car was able to start on its own without any observable issues, and then been driven for 40 minutes. But from looks of it, the condition of battery got worst after 40 minutes of charging. Very odd.

[drdiesel1]

You need a plug in charger to properly charge a battery after it's been discharged. Driving will do nothing

more than give you grief like you are dealing with right now.  Get a good battery charger and use it.

 

I have recommended this one. I use it on all my customers cars, my cars and trucks and motorcycles too.

 

Best 55 bucks you can spend: http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SSC-1500A-CA-SpeedCharge-Charger-Battery/dp/B000H961YI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1409805341&sr=8-2&keywords=1500+battery+charger

[dmk2000]

 

I have recommended this one. I use it on all my customers cars, my cars and trucks and motorcycles too.

 

Best 55 bucks you can spend: http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SSC-1500A-CA-SpeedCharge-Charger-Battery/dp/B000H961YI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1409805341&sr=8-2&keywords=1500+battery+charger

Hi Drdiesel1.

I do have it, and use it on weekly bases. I just do not want to do it, I want Ford to fix it once and for all....

[ptjones]

Plus 3 Golfer.

Did a test following your procedure and here are my results.

With car not ready to drive it shows 12,4 Volts.

With car ready to drive with ICE off, it showed 13.7 Volts.

You are correct, HVB does charges 12 V battery. That said, I cannot understand is why after driving for a straight 40 minutes, as soon as trying to park on a driveway transmission got stuck due to low voltage on 12 V battery, we are talking same moment as soon as start/shutdown button was pressed in order to turn car off not after it was left along overnight?. 40 min drive should be enough to charge even depleted battery.

Do you or anyone have any suggestions what could it be.

 

P.S. Same time as I was performing your test, I connected battery charger to see what state battery charge is. According to charger 12 V battery was 80% charged. Not sure if this is good or bad. Three weeks ago, dealer did diagnostic on battery and it passed.

To me it sounds like a bad ground to the 12v Battery not allowing the car to charge it. But putting the battery charger on the terminals would work. Quiet often is see voltages below 12v at front power point before starting the car.  IMO :)

 

Paul

[dmk2000]

To me it sounds like a bad ground to the 12v Battery not allowing the car to charge it. But putting the battery charger on the terminals would work. Quiet often is see voltages below 12v at front power point before starting the car.  IMO :)

 

Paul

You could be right. However, when I plug charger to the front power points it does indeed charges battery. Test battery on the next day shows 12.5 V with car in off position.

Puzzle. 

[halcmax]

I am new to the forum. I had my fourth dead battery in  two years. I had all the previous computer fixes done. Now I had the BCM replaced. I am wondering if any one has had this module replaced and if the dead battery problem is solved with this fix.

Thanks very much. 

[Tom]

3rd dead battery!

 

History:

First  on 12/29/12 @ 2,000 miles

Second on 2/2/14 @ 6,500 miles

Now @12,000 miles

 

Will get AAA to jump me and take C-Max into dealer tomorrow morning.

 

 

 

[ptjones]

3rd dead battery!

 

History:

First  on 12/29/12 @ 2,000 miles

Second on 2/2/14 @ 6,500 miles

Now @12,000 miles

 

Will get AAA to jump me and take C-Max into dealer tomorrow morning.

You are going along time between problems. I assume you have jumper battery just in case. ;)

 

Paul

[Tom]

3rd dead battery!

 

History:

First  on 12/29/12 @ 2,000 miles

Second on 2/2/14 @ 6,500 miles

Now @12,000 miles

 

Will get AAA to jump me and take C-Max into dealer tomorrow morning.

As stated above, AAA got me going and I drove to my dealer where I offered my battery failure history to the service writer and asked what Ford was doing about the problem? I also told him that when the car started from the jump, the radio was on.  We usually shut it off as a precautionary measure just incase that is the source of the power drain.

 

His reply was that he didn't see many dead batteries. I told him that there is a lot on the internet about it--to which he said they were the complainers.  True, and I am one of them.

 

If a Ford rep reads this, I would appreciate a response -- what's going on regarding dead batteries?

[drdiesel1]

As stated above, AAA got me going and I drove to my dealer where I offered my battery failure history to the service writer and asked what Ford was doing about the problem? I also told him that when the car started from the jump, the radio was on.  We usually shut it off as a precautionary measure just incase that is the source of the power drain.

 

His reply was that he didn't see many dead batteries. I told him that there is a lot on the internet about it--to which he said they were the complainers.  True, and I am one of them.

 

If a Ford rep reads this, I would appreciate a response -- what's going on regarding dead batteries?

 

When the battery dies it can cause memory resets throughout the cars control modules.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the radio being on from the jump-start.

[Tom]

As stated above, AAA got me going and I drove to my dealer where I offered my battery failure history to the service writer and asked what Ford was doing about the problem? I also told him that when the car started from the jump, the radio was on.  We usually shut it off as a precautionary measure just incase that is the source of the power drain.

 

His reply was that he didn't see many dead batteries. I told him that there is a lot on the internet about it--to which he said they were the complainers.  True, and I am one of them.

 

If a Ford rep reads this, I would appreciate a response -- what's going on regarding dead batteries?

The dealer performed TSB 14-0155 which is for 2013-2014 C-Max--Discharged 12 Volt Battery. It involves reprograming modules and checking wiring.

 

A letter was left in my car that is part of this TSB. It is from Ford and addressed to C-Max Customers.  It states in part that Ford recommends that you remove all devices that use 12 volt power before exiting the vehicle.  A short list of offending ports and equipment follows.

 

I hope this is the answer to our problem.

[mxanotcar]

Sunday 2/23/2015.  Temp about 35F. Time 11:12AM.  Snow and ice and rain, from last night, covered on top of the car and melting.

 

And once again, the car did not response to remote key door opening due to dead battery.  I was able to measure the 12V, and it was about 3.56V.  Popped in the jump starter, and the car woke up.  There were no error messages, and it seemed some settings reset to default (instrumental dimming light, fan speed at 1, radio channel remained the same).  And the time on the radio screen was 22:27 and the time in the dashboard was 11:15.  So the event probably occur around 22:27 last night.  Now to figure out what the events cause the 12V battery to drained down 3.56V has been a mystery even to Ford enginneers (if they even looked at the problems, or knew about the problems at all).

 

Could it be moisture seeping into electronic components or and cause short circiut somewhere in the CMAX?

 

About a week ago, there was also snow and temp was in the single digit.  The car responded okay, no 12V drained down to 3.56V like yesterday.

 

This made the 4th 12V battery drained/failure occurence on my CMAX.  The 2nd replacement 12V battery is probably dying now just like the 1st one.  The car might need brand new 12V battery every 1.5 years.

 

A couple of the previous posts about the similar dead battery situations with my CMAX:

#12 http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/3602-dealer-charged-dead-battery-says-now-good-to-go/

#139 http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2996-recurrence-of-battery-failure/page-7

[drdiesel1]

Take a look in the maintenance section and you'll find some new TSB's for this issue.

[mxanotcar]

Is the TSB 14-0155 latest TSB for the discharged 12V battery?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From link: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/4797-tsb-14-0155-hybrid-and-energi-–-discharged-12-volt-battery/

TSB 14-0155

HYBRID AND ENERGI – DISCHARGED 12 VOLT BATTERY

 

 

Publication Date: August 27, 2014

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

My last oil change from the dealer was 9/17/2014.  At that time, the car had 2 recalls done (from the receipt): 14so2 Reprogramming Restraint Control Module (this one I received a letter from Ford), and 14E02 Reprogramming PCM (this one the service advisor said after checking the recalls and it was a new recall).

 

Is TSB 14-0155 come after 14E02 recall?

[drdiesel1]

Is the TSB 14-0155 latest TSB for the discharged 12V battery?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From link: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/4797-tsb-14-0155-hybrid-and-energi-–-discharged-12-volt-battery/

TSB 14-0155

HYBRID AND ENERGI – DISCHARGED 12 VOLT BATTERY

 

 

Publication Date: August 27, 2014

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

My last oil change from the dealer was 9/17/2014.  At that time, the car had 2 recalls done (from the receipt): 14so2 Reprogramming Restraint Control Module (this one I received a letter from Ford), and 14E02 Reprogramming PCM (this one the service advisor said after checking the recalls and it was a new recall).

 

Is TSB 14-0155 come after 14E02 recall?

Recalls aren't the same as TSB's and the TSB's are not mandatory like a recall.

I doubt they took the time to update for anything else. I would take a copy of the TSB and request

they update the system based on that info.

[salsaguy]

....  I brought it to Serramonte Ford Dealership where I purchased it to have them check it out.  The Service Rep was shocked that it only had 900 miles on it and asked if i drove it often.  I told him I drive it everyday in the city.  He told me I need to drive longer distances at higher speeds so I can recharge the 12v battery.  He said this is a commuter car, not really designed for city driving.  Why do they advertise city MPG if it's not a car to be driven in the city?  Has anyone gotten this same explanation?  Is this correct?  So far, I really like this car, but having the battery die with less than 1,000 miles is a bit disappointing.

That argument about short /city driving to recharge is bogus. Where does it say that in the manual?most folks who buy hybrid are doing it because they don't want to waste as much gas as if they had a normal car that didn't shut off at stops or regen-brake. Gas and diesel cars are meant for long trips. If this was true FORD could be sued for false advertising and they would have to have a hand out/manual page in each car explaining this "issue/limitation" and would have to have each dealer train the buyer upon initial delivery and brand new car feature training lessons for the owner.

[drdiesel1]

That argument about short /city driving to recharge is bogus. Where does it say that in the manual?most folks who buy hybrid are doing it because they don't want to waste as much gas as if they had a normal car that didn't shut off at stops or regen-brake. Gas and diesel cars are meant for long trips. If this was true FORD could be sued for false advertising and they would have to have a hand out/manual page in each car explaining this "issue/limitation" and would have to have each dealer train the buyer upon initial delivery and brand new car feature training lessons for the owner.

Yeah! The idiot at the dealer is another clueless wonder spewing misinformation because he has no idea

what the hell he's talking about. I enjoy reading statements like this. It just shows how uninformed dealer

personnel really are. Salesman are the worst liars ever and they make up stuff just to hear themselves talk.

Edited February 25, 2015 by drdiesel1

[ptjones]

I agree that this is a City Driving Car, but I'm wondering if your trips were so short that it didn't give time for the HVB and 12v batteries enough to over come the energy lost of starting and sitting awhile. I'm not sure that's possible, but it might be. ;)

 

Paul

[Adrian_L]

It's possible, Paul.  But the trips would have be very short.   My wife drives 12 miles to work every day--no problems in a year.  Mind you we have the SEL.

 

I doubt you would find very many Ford service reps claiming that the C-max is "not a city car".  

[ptjones]

It's possible, Paul.  But the trips would have be very short.   My wife drives 12 miles to work every day--no problems in a year.  Mind you we have the SEL.

 

I doubt you would find very many Ford service reps claiming that the C-max is "not a city car".  

I think you are right, I think he was trying to get her to put some miles on it.  ;)

 

Paul

[FordService]

Sunday 2/23/2015.  Temp about 35F. Time 11:12AM.  Snow and ice and rain, from last night, covered on top of the car and melting.

 

And once again, the car did not response to remote key door opening due to dead battery...

Hello mxanotcar,

 

I’ll be glad to look into this further. Which model year is your C-MAX, and what’s the current mileage?

 

Tricia

[SnowStorm]

I think you are right, I think he was trying to get her to put some miles on it.  ;)

 

Paul

I think he was just trying to get rid of car problem he knew nothing about.  Horrible way to treat a customer.  This "short trip" excuse is basically nonsense (unless something is defective - in which case they should fix it!).  As soon as the key is turned to ON (not even Start) the HVB gets connected to the car and the DC-to-DC converter starts charging the 12V battery.  The HVB starts the ICE - not the 12V battery.  As far as I can tell, once the key is ON the 12V battery never discharges, everything is powered by the HVB & ICE.  See this post.  For the "short trip" idea to hold, the trips would need to be very short (maybe 1 minute) and in between each one you'd have to run lights/radio/etc for a considerable time.  That DC-to-DC converter can put out a lot of charge current.

[ptjones]

I think he was just trying to get rid of car problem he knew nothing about.  Horrible way to treat a customer.  This "short trip" excuse is basically nonsense (unless something is defective - in which case they should fix it!).  As soon as the key is turned to ON (not even Start) the HVB gets connected to the car and the DC-to-DC converter starts charging the 12V battery.  The HVB starts the ICE - not the 12V battery.  As far as I can tell, once the key is ON the 12V battery never discharges, everything is powered by the HVB & ICE.  See this post.  For the "short trip" idea to hold, the trips would need to be very short (maybe 1 minute) and in between each one you'd have to run lights/radio/etc for a considerable time.  That DC-to-DC converter can put out a lot of charge current.

I think I would take the high road and just say these FORD Dealership people don't understand how Hybrid systems work. You ask them a question and they immediately think ICE car solution without thinking about it. IMO ;)

 

Paul