Lemon Law & Buy Back Info and Experience

[Louise]

I am in the process of attempting to get a buyback in New Hampshire.  Thank-you all for posting your experiences and how you dealt with FORD.  I'm still looking for a successful buy back for $ not another c-max.  I'm also looking for an automotive engineer not working for Ford.

[lowbar]

I don't know what issues others are experiencing but my C-Max has been a great car.  A buy back is the farthest thing from my mind.

[Jus-A-CMax]

. nvm

Edited February 13, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[necrochaos]

I've opened a case with Ford for problems with my 2013 Ford C-Max.

 

It's going to the shop for a 5th time.

 

1st time was 3 weeks after purchase.  Engine light came on.  They said that it was an issue with one of the computers.  They said that they reset it.

 

2nd time was a few days after the first.  Engine light came on.  They kept the car for a few days.  They said that they went through all of the computers in the car and rest them.

 

3rd time this happened was a few times later.  Engine light came on.  They found that the purge valve was bad.  They ordered the part and didn't call me for 2 weeks.  I Called and it hadn't been ordered.  They put it in and gave me the card back.

 

4th time was a few days after I got the car back.  Engine light came on.  They kept the car for a few days.  They said it was a stuck O2 sensor and replaced it.

 

5th time this happened was 2 days after I got the car back.  Engine light came on.  

 

I called Ford Customer Care and opened a case.  Someone from the regional office called me the next day to let me know that they will be looking at the case.  I'm supposed to take the car to the dealer tomorrow to be looked at.

 

Hoping that Ford can figure this out.  It's leased from Ford.  I love the car, so hopefully the can finally fix it or replace it with another of the same model.

[wab]

Greeting and welcome necrochaos

 

 WOW hope your dealer gets some help from Ford, sounds like they need it.

Is your dealership a small one?

They can’t figure out what is causing your engine light and are throwing parts at it. Frustrating for everyone!

 

 Good luck and let us know

[ScubaDadMiami]

Tough break. Hoping all is resolved quickly.

[mbedit]

I have to echo the question from wab necrochaos? is you're dealer a small one? can you take it to another dealer? I had an Check Engine light indication myself last month, and brought it in, The dealer quickly diagnosed and ordered the part and fixed it. I had to wait about a week for the part, and they did reset the light, but while waiting it came back on the next day.

 

In discussions with friends and the service folks, what I found is that newer cars in general are required to use "smarter" valves instead of more reliable solenoids in much of the fuel emissions systems. according to engineer friends that have worked on these, they said emission laws require feedback that simpler but more reliable parts cant provide, but the short end is your essentially getting diagnostic failure info that isnt necessarily having adverse effects on the car. In old days, once a check engine light came on you might as well call the tow truck as it usually ment you damaged the engine, but now more of it seems to be linked to the emissions diagnostics.

 

Any way, I hope they can figure it out and get it fixed for you!

[necrochaos]

My dealer is in Kalamazoo, MI.  It's a good size dealership.

 

I've purchased 4 cars from them in the last 10 years.  They treat me well when I go in there.  I don't think they are jerking me around.

 

They got a call from my Ford rep.  They told me that they will be working with Ford to try and get this resolved.  They said that they want to make me happy as well since it costs them resources to have my car in the shop all the time as well.  

 

There is another dealer that is 10 miles away that I could take it to, but it's a smaller dealership.

 

I agree that the check engine light may indicate a failure and may not be something that needs to be handled immediately.  However, I'm leasing the car.  If the light is on and it's something important and I fail to have the work done, warranty won't cover my negligence.  I'm taking it in because the light shouldn't be on.  I don't want not being cautious to cost me in the end.

[mbedit]

Yep, your doing the right thing, in NC you can't pass an emissions test with such a failure, So I had to get mine fixed. Hopefully they get it sorted out for you. Good to hear its not the dealer, was just curious.

[pjurek99]

When I called the Ford Rep. - they told me that although I was leasing the car - they would not have anything to do/say/address since the car was leased. They told me to basically forget about a chance of getting any resolution with Ford or with "my" dealer. That is why I filed a Lemon Law case. It was an extremely disappointing experience. The leasing company would not answer neither... 

[mtb9153]

Why not work at improving your driving style to better your MPG?  Or is it that you are fed up with dead battery issues?  Personally I'd keep the car, I'm not big on using the "Lemon Law" procedure.  I just don't understand these buy back cases.  Despite the few problems I've experienced with Maxus, there is no better car out there for the money.  According to Fuelly.com I've spent $145.99 in fuel costs since joining in April of 2013.  I'd have spent that much with buying a couple of tanks of gas on my previous car, a Saturn Vue.

[salman]

Why not work at improving your driving style to better your MPG?  Or is it that you are fed up with dead battery issues?  Personally I'd keep the car, I'm not big on using the "Lemon Law" procedure.  I just don't understand these buy back cases.  

 

MPG is not a problem when your car does not start (infinite MPG? or zero MPG?). I don't think anyone in a buy back case has been complaining about MPG. 

 

Almost all the buy back cases have been about repeated dead 12 volt system episodes, typically at least 4 episodes and generally 4 or more repair attempts and often 30 or more says in the shop. If the problem is less than that (in # and severity), then it does not qualify under the terms of most State lemon laws.

 

In most cases that have been reported on this forum Ford has agreed pretty readily to a buy back or exchange, which means they recognize the problem is real, that it seriously impairs use of the care, and that they would lose if they insisted the matter go to court.

 

My own case was at long last completed today! A few months ago I changed my mind and  decided to take my chances with another CMAX and then had to wait for a 2014 SE to arrive. The contractor  to whom Ford outsources the final stage of the buy-back/exchange process also caused some delay . The lower level people there are not on the ball.  

 

My decision to try another CMAX was based partly on my high regard for the service manager and mechanics at the good service department I found at Airport Marina Ford in LA, and partly because I liked driving the CMax more than similar cars.

 

Now I have a new car with a new warranty and my fingers crossed.

[mtb9153]

Good luck to you and I wish you safe, happy Maxing.

[plus 3 golfer]

....

 

My decision to try another CMAX was based partly on my high regard for the service manager and mechanics at the good service department I found at Airport Marina Ford in LA, and partly because I liked driving the CMax more than similar cars.

 

Now I have a new car with a new warranty and my fingers crossed.

You know the old adage: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."  I like my C-Max too but I'm not sure I'd get another one if I had the battery issue. :)  

 

I liked my 2009 Jetta TDI too but after an $8k fuel system HPFP replacement at 44k miles covered under warranty and no apparent fix for the HPFP problem I was not going to chance keeping the car and risk another failure which might not be covered.  So, at 70k miles I traded it for the C-Max when it was obvious that VW in their last response to NHTSA on HPFP failures in Dec. 2012 did not acknowledge a design defect but continued to blame the issue on "bad" fuel.  HPFPs continue to fail on 2009 - 2013 Jetta TDIs.  Time will tell whether the battery issue will ever be resolved by Ford. 

[salman]

You know the old adage: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I like my C-Max too but I'm not sure I'd get another one if I had the battery issue. :)

 

 

Yes, thought about this long and hard, especially the question of possible long term costs post warranty.

 

Your VW problem involved a system that blows out after time, if I understand correctly, so that failure requires replacement of the system. (looked it up on a forum: Yikes!!! Cars stall out while driving, which is very dangerous. And VW has a mixed record of responsiveness, sometimes blaming impure gasoline. Ford's responsiveness has been very good, on the whole.)

 

The CMX 12 volt problem seems different: a persistent bug in some % of the cars that causes 12 volt problems in a relatively short time frame (not after years of driving, so far as we can tell, but after weeks or months).

 

If the problem exists on the new car it will likely show itself soon and re-occur every couple of months, and if that happens there is a backstop in place in terms of losses. I would not try a CMAX for a third time.....

 

I'm optmistic (not foolishly so, I hope) that I won't have to go through that.

Edited March 9, 2014 by salman

[plus 3 golfer]

I know different type of problem. The principle is the same but the severity of a dead battery hasn't put one in harms way like a HPFP failure nor has it been an expensive failure yet.

Fortunately, no one has been injured AFAIK by the HPFP failing and the car shutting down on the freeways. VW has been covering failures past warranty even most for second owners after the NHTSA investigation was opened. Many owners footed the bill prior to that point in time. Many including me believe that if NHTSA fails to act forcing a recall, VW will stop covering failures past warranty (here's one covered today with 143k miles). If this happens, the value of a used Tdi will tank (more than it has already). There are many new used Tdi owners that have had HPFP failures that were not aware of the issue when they bought the car used and thought they got a great car.

As C-Max owners IMO we need to keep this battery failure issue active. Otherwise, Ford gets off the hook too easy and may not cover such issue after warranty or if they ever definitively find the root cause.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[mbedit]

Good for you Salman for giving the C-Max another try.

 

That's exactly what I did, and though I've had some issues that required me to bring the 'Max in for repairs, they have all been quickly and efficiently fixed by my dealer. 

 

Trading in for another worked out fine for me, but I know how you feel after experiencing such issues and how apprehensive you will continue to be until the new vehicle proves its self. I went through that, and after having it run great for the last year my faith in the C-Max is restored. There is still very little out there that I would buy so I'm still a fan of the C-Max.

[necrochaos]

My dealer is in Kalamazoo, MI.  It's a good size dealership.

 

I've purchased 4 cars from them in the last 10 years.  They treat me well when I go in there.  I don't think they are jerking me around.

 

They got a call from my Ford rep.  They told me that they will be working with Ford to try and get this resolved.  They said that they want to make me happy as well since it costs them resources to have my car in the shop all the time as well.  

 

There is another dealer that is 10 miles away that I could take it to, but it's a smaller dealership.

 

I agree that the check engine light may indicate a failure and may not be something that needs to be handled immediately.  However, I'm leasing the car.  If the light is on and it's something important and I fail to have the work done, warranty won't cover my negligence.  I'm taking it in because the light shouldn't be on.  I don't want not being cautious to cost me in the end.

 

Update:  Received the car back from the dealer on Tuesday.  They said that they spoke with Ford and wanted them to wipe the computers and start from scratch.  They had the car for about a week and experienced no issues.  I had it back for 36 hours and the check engine light came on.

 

Called my Ford Regional Rep.  Let her know that I was unhappy with how things were being handled.  This is my 4th Ford and this purchase has tarnished my experience with Ford.  She said that she would escalate my case and asked me to get this to the shop as soon as possible.  They were working on my lemon law case in accordance with Michigan Law.

 

I hope to hear something soon.  6th trip to the dealer in less than 3 months of ownership.   I see that others have taken their chances with a 2014 Max.  I'm not sure if I can take another shot.  I love my car and the way it drives, but maybe it's time to look at another Make of vehicle.

[salman]

Update:  Received the car back from the dealer on Tuesday.  They said that they spoke with Ford and wanted them to wipe the computers and start from scratch.  They had the car for about a week and experienced no issues.  I had it back for 36 hours and the check engine light came on.

 

Called my Ford Regional Rep.  Let her know that I was unhappy with how things were being handled.  This is my 4th Ford and this purchase has tarnished my experience with Ford.  She said that she would escalate my case and asked me to get this to the shop as soon as possible.  They were working on my lemon law case in accordance with Michigan Law.

 

I hope to hear something soon.  6th trip to the dealer in less than 3 months of ownership.   I see that others have taken their chances with a 2014 Max.  I'm not sure if I can take another shot.  I love my car and the way it drives, but maybe it's time to look at another Make of vehicle.

 

 

FWIW:

 

When I first filed my case for a buy back I was sure I would not try another CMax. Opting to chose a different car would be a reasonable decision.

 

In your case, the trouble you are reporting seems unique. Maybe I've been too focused on the battery problems to see reports about other problems, but so far you have not written about the engine warning light problem in a way that suggests you know there are other cases. It is possible your car is an individual lemon, as opposed to the 12 volt problems that afflict a fair number of CMaxs. If I am right about that, then there is little reason to worry about a 2nd CMAx having the same problem as your car.

 

I've been reading the reports about the GM recall and it sure puts my dealings with Ford in a better light. At a few junctures the buy back/replacement process slowed down, but Ford was not fighting it like GM has appeared to fight off cases with much more dangerous problems. I appreciate that more now.

[necrochaos]

After going back to the dealer for the 12th time, Ford sent an engineer from Corporate to take a look at my car.  They diagnosed it with a throttle body issue.

 

They also flashed the firmware on the computers to the newest available (not yet available to the dealer).  1 day later things are still working.

 

I just heard back from my Regional Rep that they are going to replace my car.  I should be getting a formal letter in the next two weeks.

 

Needless to say I'm very excited.  Over the last 40 days, I spent 12 of them in a rental car.  I've been to the dealer 12 times (24 times if you count driving both ways) with a different error code each time.

 

Glad to see that Ford is going to resolve their problem.  I'm sure blasting them on Twitter, Facebook and Change.Org didn't hurt either, but at least they are trying to make it right.

 

I'll send some updates once I get the letter.

[mtb9153]

I'm sorry your experiences have been so bad up till now.  My Maxus has worked flawlessly for the last 20 months so it is hard for me to realize how some have had such a bad time with their CMax.

[BullDurham]

I just sent in the documentation to initiate a N.C. Lemon Law case because of the 12 v. battery problem.  I am using the BBB process that Ford has agreed to accept.  Under NC law, if there have been four attempts to fix the same defect and it continues to exist, the arbitrator MUST order a repurchase or replacement.  My C-Max has been at the dealership for the battery issue four times.  The last time, I contacted Ashley on this site, and she contacted the dealership.  I do not know exactly what they talked about, but the dealership kept the car for two weeks, trying everything they could.  They confirmed that something is draining the battery, but they could not correct it.  Michelle, of Ford Customer Service, called me and told me that the case had been "escalated" to Engineering.  That doesn't mean that Engineering is going to do anything with my car, but that Ford recognizes that the dealer can't fix the problem right now.  In fact the service advisor wrote on my receipt:  "SSM44559 Engineers are still working on a fix for this problem."  The service advisor told me orally that Ford hopes to have a solution by October.  Of course, that was what 13B12 was supposed to do.

 

For the sake of everyone who continues to own a C-Max, I hope Engineering does come up with a solution.  But NC law is clear:  there have been four attempts to fix it, and it ain't been fixed.  They will need to repurchase.  I just hope that this will go simply, and that Ford will do the right thing.

 

I will keep people posted.  

[DaveofDurham]

I just sent in the documentation to initiate a N.C. Lemon Law case because of the 12 v. battery problem. I am using the BBB process that Ford has agreed to accept. Under NC law, if there have been four attempts to fix the same defect and it continues to exist, the arbitrator MUST order a repurchase or replacement. My C-Max has been at the dealership for the battery issue four times. The last time, I contacted Ashley on this site, and she contacted the dealership. I do not know exactly what they talked about, but the dealership kept the car for two weeks, trying everything they could. They confirmed that something is draining the battery, but they could not correct it. Michelle, of Ford Customer Service, called me and told me that the case had been "escalated" to Engineering. That doesn't mean that Engineering is going to do anything with my car, but that Ford recognizes that the dealer can't fix the problem right now. In fact the service advisor wrote on my receipt: "SSM44559 Engineers are still working on a fix for this problem." The service advisor told me orally that Ford hopes to have a solution by October. Of course, that was what 13B12 was supposed to do.

 

For the sake of everyone who continues to own a C-Max, I hope Engineering does come up with a solution. But NC law is clear: there have been four attempts to fix it, and it ain't been fixed. They will need to repurchase. I just hope that this will go simply, and that Ford will do the right thing.

 

I will keep people posted.

Good luck Bull Durham. I hope the NC lemon law and the BBB process work quickly for you.

 

Where have you been having your C-Max serviced?

[BullDurham]

Good luck Bull Durham. I hope the NC lemon law and the BBB process work quickly for you.

 

Where have you been having your C-Max serviced?

University Ford, downtown.

[mtb9153]

Good luck Bull Durham. I hope the NC lemon law and the BBB process work quickly for you.

 

Where have you been having your C-Max serviced?

very sad :(