mbedit Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I thought someone posted that Ford found a bad relay and it seemed to fix there issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Mbedit some of us have speculated about relays in the CMax. one poster says there is some "consensus" about a bad relay among posters about troubles with 2004 Thunderbirds, but I have not looked into that. top right corner of the page there is a search function. I typed in "relay" and searched this thread. One poster, Bob999 (I think) provided some explanation for his hunch. No determination yet that a bad relay is the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewwx Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Dead Again Bad News: C-max is dead. (14th time in 1300 miles) fourth time to dealer. Good News died in a position where it can be towed. I just left a message with Ford Customer care, it will be interesting to her back from them. I am to the point where I hope they offer to buy it back from me like they did for Mbedit. I really like the car except for this. More later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwhitham Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Andrew, your average is battery failure about once for every 100 miles. Something is amiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Andrew The California Lemon Law uses 4 repair attempts as a guideline for determining when provision of a replacement car or buy back is legally enforceable. This is your 4th repair attempt. I hope you will look up the Lemon Law and then tell your dealer and Ford Customer Care that they are coming up against the Lemon Law in your case, and demand that they pull out the stops to fix your car. Let them know that you know about Mbedit's case in Wilmington NC (the town and reference to the buy back Ford offered & Ford's request to take his car back to Michigan is sufficient for Ford to locate the case file). In addition to the pressure this will put on them, they also should be comparing notes on these cases to isolate the cause or causes. My experience, sad to say, is that Ford is not communicating adequately with itself (dealers - customer care - engineering) to compile and share information to solve this 12 volt problem and another problem I have had with the Global Open feature opening the windows on its own. You have a special opportunity because 1) your dead car will be towed so they will see a dead car, and 2) being on the verge of being able to invoke the Lemon Law will give Ford added incentive to try to fix the car. Edited January 30, 2013 by salman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan3d Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Salman, when I first connected my charger, there wasn't enough power for the car to start. The interior light flickered. That's why I waited the 5 minutes, to give the battery some time to charge. But after 5 minutes, everything worked normally. The main battery was fully charged, too, so there's definitely something weird with the way they use the 12v battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedit Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 As Salman has said, make sure you know the law in your state. In NC, you have to give a "Final Notice to Repair" in which you state the defects and tell Ford that you want them to fix, replace or refund. Here they get 15 days after that. So it wouldn't matter if they exceeded the requirements, you still have to make those last hurdles, and in fact they required me to do that even after they agreed to replace it. I was actually talking with my dealer about the replacement today and things are moving now. I was pleased that when I got there to sign some paper work they said they had already located an exact match to my current C-Max (color trim ect.) and said they had en-route and I should be able to have it by Saturday. The disappointing bit may be that Ford (not the dealer) may charge me for the millage on the old one. To the dealers credit he called and told them they shouldn't, but I expect they probably will, and per the NC lemon law they can. Bottom line is they didn't really act until I said enough, and filled out the right papers, and even then they asked to ship it to dearborn to fix. Oddly, had they asked to do that back in Dec, I would have let them, but I was ready to be done with the current mess. The dealer said they haven't had any other reported issues, but they could just be giving me the sales pitch. I'll know once I get the new car, and I'm hopeful all will good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 What would they charge for the mileage? That seems a bit tacky considering the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedit Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 NC law has a formula: ( (Num Mile Driven) * (Purchase Price) ) / 120,000. In my case it might come to be < 400, but yes, I think its a bit tacky, but those are the rules of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelnLa Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Any idea when you will get the new car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Rachel he is supposed to get it Saturday. I wonder if they are giving him yours?<g>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelnLa Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Lololol. Too funny. I hope his new car is much better than the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedit Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 I'm in my new vehicle, and here's hoping I don't see a recurrence of these issues. I have to add though that I can't help but think something else funny is up with Ford and my original C-Max. When I picked up my new one today I asked if I could have a copy of the paper work with everything they did on the old one and I was told that they couldn't give me a copy as Ford had not closed out the repair ticket. I said, thats ok, give me what you have, and they just said no. I have to wonder if I'll ever see what it is they did... and it makes me wonder if they found something they don't want to disclose. Ah well I guess I need a good conspiracy theory for 2013. I'm feeling gun shy though... I think I'll get a jump box just in case... hopefully if I plan for the worst it won't turn out that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewwx Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 mbedit Please keep us updated with, hopefully your good, experiences with the new vehicle. Andrew erwhitham 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewwx Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Hi All: I just called Ford customer care. My rep has not called me back, nor has she updated her voice mail greeting since the 31st so she may be sick. I called and spoke to someone new who reviewed my case and said that they ford corporate and my ford service were talking and I will get a call tomorrow. I hope its good news...but this car does not seem to be a source of much good news... Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelnLa Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 How frustrating. Hope you hear good news and soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Andrewwx The Ford customer care rep I dealt with is Mark Coll. He handles Los Angeles, nearby to your in Venture. Please let me know if you get him as your new rep. Please keep us all posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Mbedit That is a very interesting story about Ford refusing to give you paperwork on their repair efforts. I suppose they are probably in their legal rights to not give you any more paperwork on a car they have bought back from you. But it doesn't sound very open of them, to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedit Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Yeah, the dealer said when Ford closes the ticket they would mail it to me, but it seems odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jld Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Same story. January 22 went to start car, no interior lights, no dash lights, everything dead. Dealer said not to jump start. Car towed to dealer. Dealer said bad 12V battery. Wouldn't hold charge. Replaced bad battery and everything fine until today, February 7. Went to start car, red triangle message on dash "stop safely now". After 5 or 6 attempts at restarting, vehicle started. Ran fine the rest of the day. Decided to check on the forum to see if anyone else had gotten the "stop safely now" message. Saw where someone had gotten this message and the dealer said there was a problem in the electrical wiring and had to replace a modulator of some sort. Don't know if the battery problem and the "stop safely now" problem are related or not. Will have to make trip to dealer tomorrow. Hope the "stop safely now" message is an easy fix since the C-Max is my wife's and she is not too happy with two return to dealer issues in less than a month! : ( Edited February 8, 2013 by jld Triple Ford Owner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike51 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 SHADD said: My battery died on my C-MAX this morning for the third time. This is after the dealership already replaced my original battery with a new battery after the first two times. The only thing I can think I did was leave my phone charger and usb plugged in over night. This happened to me as well. First time was when I went to test drive the vehicle in the dealer's lot-- dead. Second time, it had been sitting in my driveway for about 6 hours-- dead. Roadside assistance jumped it and it took it to the dealer the next day. They kept it two days. Neither the dealer nor Ford could figure it out, so Ford told the dealer to put in a new battery. The third time it happened, I jumped it myself and took it to the dealer. They kept it for 4 days and couldn't determine the problem. They even tried plugging phone chargers into the outlets. Triple Ford Owner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike51 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 My battery died the first day I had the car. But I left the headlamps on. Since my previous car had no warning chime when you left the headlamps on I got in the habit of making sure they are off. So it was hard for me to accept that I had killed the battery on the C Max. I have noticed that if I turn the ignition off while the lights are on the headlamps will go out but because the switch is in the on position the warning chime sounds when you open the door. If you get out and shut the door the chime stops and since the lights are out there is no visible evidence that you are draining the 12 volt. I still don't understand where the drain is if the lamps are not shining. And if the battery saver is acting properly it shouldnt matter what you left on. I suppose I need to do a little more troubleshooting to completely understand what went wrongI beat you: it happened to me when I went to test drive it! The headlights shouldn't matter-- when you turn the car off, the headlights go out; after a few minutes all other lights go off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Mike51 If you do not mind, please post a few more details. When did your three 12 volt failures happen? What is the name of your dealer where the dead battery happened on the test drive? This information will help us all if/when we need to talk to Ford again. It will allow us to give details about other cases of 12 volt failure. Moreover, the dealer getting hit with a dead 12 volt system should be a significant prod for Ford to act. Quite a few of us have had a hard time getting information out of Ford. Customer Service at Ford seemed very responsive at first, but when I started asking about other cases and supplied identifying information about those cases, then suddenly the flow of information from Ford turned false and then stopped altogether. Although I still believe Ford must want to figure out and fix these 12volt problems to protect the reputation of the cars they are selling, it also seems to be the case that they are not sharing information about the problem. Probably they do not want to admit that they cannot figure out the cause. RachelnLa and rfruth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike51 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Salman, I am not going to provide my dealer's name because first, it is a Ford problem not a dealer problem; second, the dealer has been in contact with Ford about the three instancesI have had and Ford has provided technical support; third, the dealer has bent over backwards to try to resolve the issue; and lastly, I have had a long lasting personal and professional relationship with owners of the dealership that I do not intend to submarine in this forum. Rest assured, however, that Ford has two more tries to get it right and then I absolutely will invoke the lemon law. There is nothing in this forum that I have seen so far that indicates a cure is on the way. I will not be another guy whose C-Max comes up dead 14 times. Until I discovered this blog, I thought I was the only one and was planning on turning in my car for another C-Max (that's how much I like it) when (not if) it becomes a lemon law problem. Now, I'm not so sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Mike51 Yes, it is a Ford problem. I do not think anyone who has posted on this board has blamed a dealership. The reason I asked for your dealer's name was not to blame the dealer, but so that all the rest of us can tell Ford that we know this problem has happened to a specific dealer as well as to owners in various locations and at particular times. The fact that it happened to a dealer taking a customer on a test drive is significant. It eliminates any blame-the-owner game. It potentially has a more direct impact on marketing. And dealers, if they know about this, would be more energetic in asking Ford for help (some dealers are energetic and aggressive in their testing of cars brought to them for service, others are not). My experience and that of several others is that Ford has been claiming that these are all isolated occurrences that are unrelated to each other. Information is important. Ford is not sharing much information, not with us and, as best as I can tell, not with its dealers and service departments. Having information about other cases and the extent to which many of us have tried to get the cars fixed and tried to get information out of Ford seems to have been very useful to you. Just as you learned from reading our posts on this forum and now know your case is not isolated to you, we all stand to possibly learn from information that you could share. There is no need to attack your dealership and I am not asking you to do that. Since your dealership has been so great, you would be singing their praises if you mentioned their name. but it is all up to you. That's why i prefaced my request for more information with the phrase, "If you don't mind." If you do not mind, it would be useful for the rest of us to have more information about when your events happened and any other details you can relate about what your dealership tested and how they tested it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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