Oil Changes

[NicksCMax]

10,000 for hybrid, "not more than 20,000" for the Energi.

20k for Energi...where'd you get this from...I'm curious because that's amazing!

[MikeB]

20k for Energi...where'd you get this from...I'm curious because that's amazing!

That's from the owners manual. But consider that the Energi could do that whole distance without any significant use of the ICE, it's not that impressive. Ford is probably guessing that around 50% of Energi miles will be done in EV mode, so they will need oil changes half as often. That 50% number is pretty close to my actual usage, and I seem to be about the middle of range based on forum posts and Fuelly entries.

[wab]

First oil change yesterday at 600 miles.  Oil was nasty looking, a very muddy, murky, greenish brown color, looked like swamp water.  I've changed oil hundreds of times in dozens of cars, and never saw anything like that.  There were metal shavings in the drained oil, largest ones about the size of the diameter of a 1.0 mechanical pencil lead.  There were also some small chunks of some type of gasket material.  Overall, this oil was pretty nasty and murky for only 600 miles.  

 

Not to get into an oil debate, but I used the Motocraft Filter, FL910S, from wally world for 4 bucks, and a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 5W20 full syn for about 24 bucks.   From the looks of the oil and presence of metal, I don't think I wasted 30 bucks. 

 

Couple of things.

1. Torx bit is a T-30, and as stated above, the drain plug is 15mm.  I was able to reach the drain plug with a regular Craftsman 6 point socket and wrench, though it is a little tight. 

2. Oil filter, can't miss it, right on the bottom, middle, forward, of the engine.  Not a lot of room around it, but able to get the wrench on it.   They must have had a 500 pound gorilla tightening oil filters the day this car was made.  YMMV. 

3. Out of the 8 torx screws, the two longest ones go to the outside.  The three in the front and three in the back are shorter.  Don't over tighten, they are just held by plasitc "nuts" and will strip. 

4. Engine was filthy underneath.  Covered with salt/road debris.  Engine looked like car was transported from Michigan in a snow storm with salted roads with the lower engine cover off.  Lots of parts already rusted though the car was built 3 weeks ago.  Glad I got in there and cleaned all the salt off and stopped some of the oxidation/rusting process.  Not sure how it got that dirty, but it was. And no, we didn't do it since the car hasn't seen rain or salted roads yet with us.  It could have come through the lower grill, maybe it was sitting in a bad spot on the trailer.  Anyway, it was filthy, and no telling how bad the salt would have corroded things by 10000 miles.  

 

Overall, pretty easy oil change, though.  

 

I just changed our oil at 1500 miles.

Looked like dark honey, NO other colors, or debris.

 

 

You probably need to drain a little oil and send it for an exam.

Blackstone Labs will do it for $25.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php

 

It was beautiful under our motor and we have driven in the rain.

 

Your car may have been underwater.

A quick check inside the air filter may reveal more mud.

 

MAYBE NOT but you need to check ASAP!

 

Good luck

wab

[darrelld]

Dealer sent me a free oil change coupon that I must use within six months, only reason I am changing before 10,000 miles.

[JohnnOhio]

My dealer just told me to bring mine back in 120 days or 5,000 miles which ever comes first for my first oil change.(on the house)

[wab]

Questions for the 7 to 10K first oil change side of the oil change debate.

 

What if the oil in your C-Max looks like Hatchman's? Post #73

If the car is showing 600 then the ICE probably only has 400 on it...OUCH!

 

 

When you buy a used car how soon do you change the oil?

 

What if you bought a certified 2 yr old 92 BMW 325i and on the way home told your wife?

"I think I'll put Mobil1 in this tomorrow."

The next day you drain 14 quarts (BMW's hold 7), the certifier forgot to drain the oil before adding new...OUCH! :censored: 

[Hatchman]

I just changed our oil at 1500 miles.

Looked like dark honey, NO other colors, or debris.

 

 

You probably need to drain a little oil and send it for an exam.

Blackstone Labs will do it for $25.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php

 

It was beautiful under our motor and we have driven in the rain.

 

Your car may have been underwater.

A quick check inside the air filter may reveal more mud.

 

MAYBE NOT but you need to check ASAP!

 

Good luck

wab

 

 

My car has been underwater?  All the way up to the air filter?  Are you serious?!!!

[wab]

My car has been underwater?  All the way up to the air filter?  Are you serious?!!!

 

"MAYBE NOT but you need to check ASAP!"

 

When was your car made and where did it go after that?

 

Chevy just donated 300 flooded NEW cars.

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2013/Feb/0228-first-responders.html

[Hatchman]

Car was made 2/22, arrived at dealership 2/28 so I don't think they had time to submerge it, unless they traveled back in time to Sandy back in October 25-30 2012.

The rest of the car is dry/unaffected.  There was just salt spray under the hood like it was towed on a trailer on a salty road or hit a puddle and splattered while driving it without the shield on.  The debris was in a spray pattern, splatters and spots, not submersion.  The rest of the car was clean and unaffected, there would be no time to dry the car out and get every bit of water and mud out of it if had been submerged.  The only spots with rust are under the hood, toward the front.  I said the oil looked muddy, not have mud in it.  To get to the air filter, the water level in the interior would have to be over a foot deep, no way that could happen without some residual signs and smells.

 

Besides, this car is an electrical nightmare.  No way it would ever run if it had been submerged.  

 

Anyway, back on topic.  Oil changes...

Edited March 21, 2013 by Hatchman

[roninsd]

My dealer had a "new owner" seminar (all ford models).  I wasn't able to attend the first time, but went to the second one I was invited to.  At one point, they took all of us new owners out to the service bay, where they had one example of each model all lined up.  Owners then went to the model they had purchased for more individualized info from one of the service personnel.  The service tech next to the C-Max, when asked, said that since the first oil change suggested in the manual is 10000, but the first tire rotation is at 5000, we should consider taking it in at 7500 for both, to save a trip.  He said that unless there was some problem related to the oil (or tires), that this should be sufficient timing for each of these services.

[Bob999]

My dealer had a "new owner" seminar (all ford models).  I wasn't able to attend the first time, but went to the second one I was invited to.  At one point, they took all of us new owners out to the service bay, where they had one example of each model all lined up.  Owners then went to the model they had purchased for more individualized info from one of the service personnel.  The service tech next to the C-Max, when asked, said that since the first oil change suggested in the manual is 10000, but the first tire rotation is at 5000, we should consider taking it in at 7500 for both, to save a trip.  He said that unless there was some problem related to the oil (or tires), that this should be sufficient timing for each of these services.

 

 

My reading of the Owners Manual (page 364) is that tire rotation is recommended at the same time an oil change is done--and for the hybrid that is at 10,000 miles or 1 year, which ever comes first.

 

The relevant section of the Owners Manual:

 

 

C-MAX Full Hybrid

Normal Scheduled Maintenance*

At every oil change

interval as indicated by

the information

display. Can be up to

10000 miles

(16000 km) or

12 months.

Change engine oil and filter.**

Rotate tires, inspect tire wear and measure

tread depth.

Perform multi-point inspection

(recommended).

Inspect automatic transmission fluid level.

Consult dealer for requirements.

Inspect brake pads, shoes, rotors, drums,

brake linings, hoses and parking brake.

Inspect cabin air filter.

Inspect engine cooling system and

motor/electronics cooling system strength and

hoses.

Inspect exhaust system and heat shields.

Inspect half-shaft boots.

Inspect steering linkage, ball joints, suspension

and tie-rod ends.

Inspect wheels and related components for

abnormal noise, wear, looseness or drag.

*Do not exceed one year or 10000 miles (16000 kilometers) between

service intervals.

**Reset your oil monitor system after each engine oil and filter change.

See the Information Displays chapter

[doodlebug]

My dealer offered "the works" at 5000 mi for $39.95 and a $10 rebate for future service.  Included oil change and tire rotation.

[Hatchman]

My dealer offered "the works" at 5000 mi for $39.95 and a $10 rebate for future service.  Included oil change and tire rotation.

 

That's a good deal for oil, filter, and tire rotation plus all the other inspection. Sounds good!

[KAL Cmax]

I just had Ford service my C-Max with 1,140 miles 525 engine miles (I just subtracted the EV miles from total miles). I went with full synthetic oil and will change it every 10k miles. Since I live in the North East, our weather and Boston driving is not considered "normal" conditions. So I will stick to the 10k oil change interval but with full synthetic.

 

I know changing the oil early sparks debate, but it gives me that warm fuzzy feeling knowing I did.

 

I average about 400 miles a week and far am getting 46 mpg without major driving habit changes. Staying under 65 mph is harderst though!

[obob]

post about WSS-M2c913-c deleted

 

UPDATE: I don't want to mislead anyone. I used the online manual which says something about WSS-M2c913-c oil which I gather is not as good a standard, prehaps older, as the WSS-M2C945-A mentioned in the next post and in the C-Max printed manual.

Edited June 6, 2013 by obob

[JAZ]

Owners Manual specifies Ford WSS-M2C945-A (page 347, 1st printing) and this requirement is met by Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20.  Currently on sale in my area at Auto Zone @ 5 qts. + Mobil 1 oil filter (M1-102) for $ 31.99.  Info gathered from Mobil 1 website and current Auto Zone sale circular.

[salsaguy]

today's engines are designed and machined work such tight tolerances there are no metal shavings or debris in them at breakin. they couldn't work properly if they did have these. this is not a 1960s car that Joe Smoe overhauls/rebuilds in his backyard.

this has been true for at least 5-10 years.

at least for the big auto makers and high performance cars.

 

 

Oil change in the first 1000 miles a good idea. That will drain out any dirt and metal filings left from the engine block machining process.

[salsaguy]

for those changing their own oil on ramps, how do you compensate for the car being on an angle since the dealer does it on a horizontal lift?

not all the oil will drain if it's on an angle.

[JAZ]

I suspect the slight angle is a non-issue and might even favor the ramp method.  Additionally, ever watch the guys/gals doing one of them quick oil changes?  Likely as not, the drain plug is replaced while oil is still flowing out of the pan.  Lastly, there are any number of cavities and depressions on the internal engine parts that will never drain while the car is right side up.  That slight bit of residual oil seems not to have been a problem in the millions of vehicles sold over the years...

[fotomoto]

for those changing their own oil on ramps, how do you compensate for the car being on an angle since the dealer does it on a horizontal lift?

not all the oil will drain if it's on an angle.

 

If you have an inclined driveway, you point the car down the grade so when it's up on the ramps it will be level.  I do this when changing out manual transmission fluid which have side drains that require a level vehicle for a proper fill level.   PITA method:  ramps on the front and jackstands on the back.

 

Mobil 1 0w-20 also meets the newer, higher 954-A standard.   I'm going to try it at 10K.  Currently using dealer filled mobil 1 5w-20.  

 

TIP:  if you run higher air pressures, tell them you want to keep them at those levels or they will put them back to factory spec.

Edited June 11, 2013 by fotomoto

[Hatchman]

If you have an inclined driveway, you point the car down the grade so when it's up on the ramps it will be level.  I do this when changing out manual transmission fluid which have side drains that require a level vehicle for a proper fill level.   PITA method:  ramps on the front and jackstands on the back.

 

Mobil 1 0w-20 also meets the newer, higher 954-A standard. 

 

 

This ^

 

And for those that say engine oil has no metal particles, that is not true.  Send your oil off to Blackstone labs and they will tell you that every oil sample has some metal particles in it, though they may be too small to see with the naked eye. 

[wab]

This ^

 

And for those that say engine oil has no metal particles, that is not true.  Send your oil off to Blackstone labs and they will tell you that every oil sample has some metal particles in it, though they may be too small to see with the naked eye. 

 

They even tell you what the amounts of metal in the oil means.

Edited October 26, 2013 by wab

[drdiesel1]

The Energi will give you EV mileage over total miles traveled.  If you keep the lifetime history and change the oil @ every 5K on the ICE, you'll be better off. I plan on resetting my lifetime data after 5K when I change my oil.

 

I did the first oil change at 1500 miles and 500 miles of ICE time. I don't like running my ICE more than 5K

between oil changes. I'll also put a time limit on it.  Probably about 6 months, due to acids in the oil.

 

If left unchecked, the acid will eat at the seals and can cause oil leaks. It's not worth saving 10 bucks to have oil leaks or the possibility of sludge buildup from letting the oil change interval be pushed beyond the normal requirements of an ICE engine.

Keep good data records so you can track it and protect your investment :spend: I log my service data on the Ford website.

 

Edited October 26, 2013 by drdiesel1

[Hatchman]

They even tell you what the amounts of metal in the oil means.

 

That is true, wab, what each metal is present, how much, what it means and what part is wearing.  Good info. 

 

 

Well, just did my second oil change and first tire rotation yesterday.  Oil change light came on at 10,250 miles.  Checking the history, the car has about 50% EV, 50% ICE operation, so the oil had about 5000 miles on it since I changed it out at 600 miles.  Come to find out, that "green" oil I had from the factory was a UV dye they put in some cars to check for leaks.  Would also explain why the car had water splash marks under the engine, they put the dye in and test drove on wet/salty surface and brought it back and checked for leaks.  Too bad they didn't clean the engine off prior to putting the splash shield on and sending her off to the dealership. 

 

Oil still had small pieces of metal, hard to see but could definitely see some "glitter" in the bottom of the oil drain pan once all the oil was poured out.   Used Mobil 1 5W20 and a Mobile M1-102 Extended Performance oil filter.  Reset the light was easy, hit start button without holding brake, then hold brake and accelerator down for 30 secs, turn car off.  

[wab]

Just did our 3rd.

 

Who can tell me how many miles it had on it???

My spreadsheet say the car has gone 7747 miles since the last change.

Most (????) of those miles were at 75+ miles per hour pre 13B07.

 

PLEASE

don't start with the "your car knows when to change" and it will tell you when.

Sounds good but what if we're 50 miles from home on our 675 mile one way trip to Colorado,

turn around,

stop at the next kill you motor oil change place in a jiffe,

carry the oil and do it at a roadside park

or wait till we get there (bad warranty idea)? 125 over the 500 then add 40 for the trip to get the oil.

 

 

After +or- 15 years I've found a use for "Trip 2" ;)

Reset at oil change subtract EV miles from miles equals miles on oil.

:happy feet: 

Edited October 27, 2013 by wab