valkraider

I have seen back to back articles in the news claiming AAA says gas prices will drop in 2013 and that AAA says gas prices will increase in 2013. All I know is I would be happy if the USA would stop subsidizing the oil industry and we started paying the real cost of gasoline. $6 or $7 gallons of gas might finally get people to stop wasting. But then I thought $4 gas would do that and yet I still saw people sitting in their vehicles idling in parking lots and people will still drive large SUVs through drive-up windows sitting in line with the engine running for 10 minutes to avoid getting out of the car for a hamburger...

Don't read this if you don't want party poo poo. But I'm gonna be a little bit of a buzz-kill with this post... Assuming these give a full 3mpg gain all the time: Using $4 a gallon gas price, going from 37mpg to 40mpg or going from 40mpg to 43mpg will save a penny per mile. $50 break-even would then be 5000 miles. $100 break-even is 10,000 miles. The gains get smaller with higher fuel economy. Going from 43 to 46 mpg saves less than a penny per mile at $4 gas. Realistically lets assume that with temperature, weather, and driving variations that these can reliably net an average 2mpg gain. Lets put gas at the $3.50 point which is roughly current west coast costs. It will take more than 20,000 miles to recoup the $100. I bet there is more petroleum product consumed in the production & shipping of the plastic for the covers plus the energy consumed to cut & shape them, then ship them to the driver will conserve by using the grill covers. Throw in a potential fight with a dealer if there is ever an over-heating issue and all associated cost and hassle... Sorry...

More tint shop...

Getting some shades!

Right, but on a dyno there is no wind blowing through the grill. So there is naturally less cooling effect going on regardless of shutters being open (or possibly Stuck). The dyno only simulates drag - it doesn't account for the cubic feet of air flowing through the engine compartment from at purely thermal perspective. This is all assuming that the thermal management of the engine is what is changing the fuel economy...

But they were made standard equipment before cell phones, complimentary roadside assistance, TPMS, small 12v air pumps, and much much advanced tire technology. For most people in 2013, a spare is simply not necessary.

Why would you think they are ignoring it? They have submitted cars to the EPA for testing and they are looking in to it at Ford labs as well. They are not going to send someone to each customer's house to play with their cars, nor at they going to even contact customers until they have established a pattern, diagnosed a potential problem, and possibly have a fix in place. It's not being ignored. The question is why are people freaking out about Ford when this happens to all hybrids? There is ample evidence that this is a problem with Hybrids and the EPA test procedures... Yet so many people are blaming Ford...

The EPA tests are done in warm temperatures and on a dyno in a lab where there is no actual wind (drag is simulated with the dyno). Assuming the shutters are primarily for thermal management, at warm temps with no real wind a malfunctioning shutter would have much less impact than real world use in a 60mph 30degree airflow... So yet another way real-world just simply doesn't match up with EPA test procedures.

<troll> Do android users actually purchase apps which aren't free? </troll> Haha, just kidding. It's smart arse Saturday! :)

They responded (quickly!) to an email and there is an update going out to fix the odometer/trip issue. :)

It doesn't match up with Fuelly settings. My car in feully is set up to enter Odometer mileage and the app asks for trip miles. On Fuelly this is a choice you make when setting up a car, and is not changeable after the car is in use.

Our TDI Jetta and TDI New Beetle would not shut it off while using them... They would reset when we power cycled the engine or shut off if we turned off defrost...

Damn, the recycle setting shuts off *quick*. What the heck is the time limit, 5 minutes? Maybe 10 minutes tops? This is really annoying. I have never seen a vehicle where the recycle setting auto shuts off *while in use*.

But the fan stays on - and the lowest fan setting is still pretty high... Vent mode is with no fan, the air is pushed into the vehicle via just the pressure when the car is in motion.

Don't blame the car for a shitty dealer. Go to a better dealer.

I don't want a Prius. So people can talk all they want. I had a decade to buy a Prius and didn't bite.... Now the first all electric VW hits the states and it's gonna meet my driveway toot sweet.

Based on discussion in another thread, I did some experimentation to get some concrete info. Here is what happens with electricity provided to the accessory outlets when you turn off the car (based on my experimentation): USB and the Inverter (the 110v AC plug for the back seat) lose power immediately when the car is shut down. The 12v outlet in the center console up front stays hot for 30 minutes after shutting down the car. The 12v outlet in the cargo area does not turn off, it is always hot. (I am still investigating the 12v inside the arm-rest cubby) Let us know if your experiences differ....

I have said this before, and will say it again. If there really is a difference on how the car behaves when the foot is on the brake during shut-down, they are going to have a lot (a LOT) of unhappy Ford customers. So many people have been taught their entire lives to press the brake when starting or shutting down the car. Heck, it was even a staple of our drivers ed courses. I highly doubt that having the foot on the brake during shut down changes anything. I have tried it both ways and I have found no difference in the car behavior between the two. Whether or not my foot is on the brake, all the accessories and systems function exactly the same in my experimentation. There has to be a ghost in the machine. Ford reliability ratings and support costs would be horrific if something as simple as putting a foot on the brake at the wrong time can cripple the vehicle.

It appears the 12v in the rear cargo area does not shut off, at least not as quickly as the one in the center console. It has been on over two hours now, so my assumption is it will not turn off. So don't leave things in the cargo area plugged in....

The 12v in the center console shuts off after a period of time (I didn't time it, but I went back to check after an hour and a half, and it was off).

Ahh, I see. That makes more sense. The energy used to overcome elevation changes, not the elevation itself. :) Got it. I have a just over 2 mile decent of almost 1000 feet where I can regen the whole way down. Before my C-Max that energy was all chewed up in brake pad dust. :)

The USB ports are not powered when the car is off. I have tested them. EDIT: I just tested the others: Both the 12v in the center console, and the one in the rear cargo area stay powered when you shut off the car. I will watch and see if they shut off after a time. The A/C inverter does not stay on when the car is shut off.

My daily commute goes from 400 feet, over 1100 feet, back down to 100 feet. Parts of it at a 31% grade. ;) When I was a kid my commute took me from 8000 feet (my home) to 5000 feet (my school) and all the ups and downs in between. I am a mountain boy, I always am amazed when flatlanders talk about 100 feet as though it is a big change. I have had driveways with 150 feet of elevation change. :) I am not sure that 2.3mpg holds accurate really. Certainly there is going to be some efficiency loss of course, there is no way around that. But I doubt it could be 2.3mpg at per 100 feet, because that would mean that by 2000 feet elevation or so we would be at zero mpg. There are people in Colorado and New Mexico who are getting similar economy as people at sea level. The engine oxygen sensor should be automatically adjusting up to a point (anything over about 7000 feet and a normally aspirated engine starts to really suck wind, and no amount of adjusting can offset that much lack of oxygen without turbo or supercharging). There are so many variables here. At higher elevations air is thinner which means reduced horsepower but also means reduced wind resistance. However at higher elevations air is colder which also can increase air resistance while additionally putting more demands on climate controls.

Except for if I direct air to the windshield. That seems to always turn on the compressor and usually the ICE. I found though that keeping the feet or face on at the same time will reduce the frequency of the compressor kicking in for the defog.