plus 3 golfer

Yes I thought about towing in neutral. But the difference is that in the 23 miles the HV system is likely charging and discharging the battery (using traction motor) many, many times in this downhill portion. There would be significantly more heat produced and significantly more load on the moving parts than when coasting. Poor lubrication of the "loaded" bearings / gears and so forth could cause abnormal wear that one would not see when coasting in neutral. A quick calculation shows about 3.5+ kWh of energy that would be available from the 2500 foot hill. This might get one 60-65% of the way. Assume on flat ground that ICE might run 50% of the remaining miles, So, that's maybe 4 miles on ICE and 19 miles of coasting in gear and EV operation with no fluid circulation. The question is how much does ICE need to run (frequency and time) to provide adequate cooling and lubrication.

Enter your VIN here under the vehicle tab for info on your car.

I see 3 factors that may not bode well for your transmission: 1) your daily 23 miles of downhill driving likely requires very little use of ICE; 2) when the car is in motion, the traction motor and generator (when ICE is not spinning) are always spinning along with the associated internal hardware and 3) the transmission fluid could be getting too hot from no circulation and there could be inadequate lubrication. From the Ford Service Manual for the Hybrid: "the transmission fluid pump is an internal pump bolted to the transmission case. The transmission fluid pump is turned by the input shaft and circulates transmission fluid through the transmission for lubrication and through an oil-to-air cooler mounted in the front of the radiator for transmission cooling. The transmission fluid pump only operates when the engine is running." To get around this for the Energi which can operate 20+ miles without ICE, the Energi has an external transmission pump to circulate fluid. So, it's possible that the transmission fluid gets hot (but not enough to trigger a DTC) when going 23 miles downhill with very little circulation of the fluid through the cooler. This my have contributed to the cause of the failure. I'd press Ford / dealer as to what failed and why?

Makes no sense to me. When I buy a product I expect it to work regardless of whether others offer similar products that have lesser features. Unfortunately, Ford didn't even get the basics right either - EPA Fuel Economy miscues, dependability (dead battery issue). Yes, Ford gets dinged when the Nav shows the position off the road in a field. Yes, Ford gets dinged when the MFT locks up, Yes, Ford gets dinged if the overhead light doesn't work and so forth. :) It's just too many dings, IIRC JD Powers 2013 IQS showed 222 defects per 100 vehicles,

I'd say "are very good" should read "should likely have improved." It won't take much to improve the JD Powers and CR survey results of the C-Max but we won't know results for MY 2014 for about another year and MY 2013 updates for a few more months. Absent such data, one can only look at past performance. Like I said in other posts, improvement in poor initial dependability, reliability may take several annual surveys to show up. Also, one needs to remember that the results of the surveys are compared against other brands and models for ranking purposes. So, IMO (based on past performance), it will be unlikely that Ford will make it to the upper level (ie, "very good") in dependability, reliability anytime soon. Ford needs to "get it right" initially not later. Time will tell. :)

It appears that you must finance through Ford Credit at the prevailing rate to get the $1000 Retail Credit Bonus and the$1500 Retail Customer Cash. You can also get the $1000 Retail Credit Bonus with special financing rates (for example, 0% for 60 months) but then must forgo the $1500 Cash. For leasing when I build and price under X-Plan, the,only incentive shown is the $1250 RCL Customer Cash. So, it appears you do not get the $1500 Retail Cash nor the $1000 Retail Credit Bonus under leasing.

This video will be nearly two years old in a few months. I watched it along with reading many, many reviews comparing the Prius and C-Max prior to my purchase in December 2012. My take at that time and after a test drive of both vehicles was virtually the same as what's in the video - the C-Max was a much better "driving" car with respect to comfort, performance and handling than the Prius. The negative of the C-Max was its fuel economy vs the EPA numbers. As I've said many times over the past 20 months (and as implied by MT's expert and virtually all reviewers) - something was amiss with the Ford 47/47/47 EPA numbers. Of course, many buyers at that time were duped into thinking the C-Max was a 47 mpg car by Ford's silhouette C-Max beats Prius V commercials. I knew based on my driving style that I would not get near 47 mpg but still bought the car and am averaging about 40,8 mpg in 27 k miles. Ford's initial deceptive FE claims coupled with the JDPower's IQS results, many recalls, and CR's poor reliability rating gave the C-Max a "black eye". IMO, the C-Max is a great car but unfortunately, it may take another year or so for the "black eye" to go away.

and a block heater and an oil pan heater and a spare tire and a jack and .....(better yet IMO) - FORD SHOULD BE BUYING BACK YOUR CAR. ;)

I also heard about a second check coming to CMax owners, but from what I found out that is a rumor . I spoke to my dealer and he said Ford is not sending out any more checks. The first check that was sent last year is it. Hate to bring bad news , but that's the way it is. Was kind of looking forward to getting another check too because of how hard the value has drop on these cars. Dealers were sent this Customer Satisfaction Program 14B03 letter on June 12, 2014. You might want to look for another dealer given their lack of " DEALER AWARENESS OF GOODWILL PAYMENT / CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION PROCESS". ;) 14B03.pdf

Paul, I'd be interested in your alignment check. Will this be your first alignment check? Recently (last several tanks) I thought my car was not always tracking as well as it had in the past. When on the freeways, the car seemed to "drift more" and the steering wheel seemed ever so slightly off from "neutral" position. There was no abnormal tire wear, but when I took the car in for the 14S04 recall last Wed., I had them check / do the alignment ($99 for alignment). The left rear toe was found to be at the edge of spec. at -0.01* (spec. is -0.01* to 0.39*) and the total rear toe in was below acceptable at 0.10* (spec. is 0.18* to 0.58*). So, after adjusting the left rear toe in, the total toe came in at 0.31*. The trust angle changed from -0.06* to +0.04* (spec -0.50* to 0.50*). Although not out of spec., the tech also increased the front toe in on both sides. Now after the alignment, I don't notice any tracking issues. I've 27 k miles on my tires with tread wear at 7/32" rear and 8/32 front (as reported by dealer). My measurements about 7.5/32" front and just under 8/32 rear or about 13 k miles / 1/32" wear rate average. So, I also expect to get around 65 k+ miles before I change them as I generally change at about 3-4 / 32" tread depth also. My rotation schedule (for all new tires) is at 5 k miles and then 10 k miles thereafter. I run 45 psi. Modern tires should run virtually flat (no abnormal tread wear) for a wide range of inflation pressures above recommended.

Kotsby, are you aware of this thread from over a year ago? http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1921-dead-12-volt-water-in-electrical-connectors/?do=findComment&comment=18888

There is nothing I can find in the Ford Service Manual that indicates the ac activates when the car is OFF and the cabin temperature reaches a trigger level. Just yesterday the ambient was 108F when I picked my car up at the dealer. I presume the car was in the sun from about 9 am when I got a call it was ready until about 2 pm when I picked it up. The climate system ran at about 4 kW for about 4 miles until the cabin temperature got about set point of 74F at which time the fan speed dropped and the usage dropped to less than 1 kW. Suffice it to say that the interior was very hot. Someone recently posted that their dealer indicated Ford believes the problem might be that the electric coolant pump may start / continue to run after shutdown discharging the 12 V battery. This seems consistent with Ford indicating that certain connectors in the front lower left had side of the engine bay may allow water intrusion causing a short to ground. IIRC, the connectors are for the coolant pump, grille shutters, and fog lights.

It's probably Infolinks. I've added Ghostery, Adblock, Adblock +, Facebook Disconnect extensions to Chrome which virtually block all ads and unwanted videos. Occasionally, you may have to pause blocking or whitelist a site to enable certain content on the site. My laptop is fairly fast so the overhead of these extensions is barely noticeable,

This is what the IRS says on EV Federal Tax credit: The following requirements must also be met to qualify for the credit. You are the owner of the vehicle. If the vehicle is leased, only the lessor, and not the lessee, is entitled to the credit. The credit is only available to the owner. This is the same issue I had with the Ford website and the incentives on the Ford Focus Electric and not knowing what RCL (Red Carpet Lease) meant. Even the salesman indicated over the phone that I would get the $7500 FTC AND the $11,000 RCL incentive on the Electric. If you leased and the finance guy told you that you would get the $4000 FTC, he lied or you misunderstood.

There have been several (maybe 3-4 IIRC) MY2014 with dead batteries.

Thanks for clearing it up. I added parentheses around "cash and and the tax credit benefit" in my previous post which should now be clear: $13,500 = $6,000 cash incentive + $7,500 FTC (provided one can use it) for a cash purchase.

I believe the $5757 includes the $4000 Fed. tax credit as the $5757 applies to the Red Carpet Lease not a cash purchase. At least that what it appears to be on Ford.com. Again the RLC customer cash balloon. ;) The X-Plan shows a savings of $1530 off MSRP. So, this doesn't appear to be a "Job Well Done Ford" as the Fed. Tax Credit doesn't apply to the lessee.

My Rogue is a 2008 AWD SL (virtually every option available is on it) that I bought used in 2011 for its higher ground clearance for travel on unpaved forest roads and desert roads in AZ to primarily get to off-road hiking destinations. So, the longest trip in it has been maybe 300 miles round trip. I've put 12k miles on it in about 3 years of ownership. The immediate difference I notice between the Rogue and C-Max when driving is noise level (although the Rogue is rated as a quiet car by CR). One can hear the CVT hum and significant road noise (quieter tires would probably help) at higher rpm and speeds in the Rogue. So, I would not want to use the Rogue for long trips. The two are very close on comfort for me with higher seating positions. The Rogue has rattles and squeaks when driving over rougher roads whereas I have none in the C-Max. I don't notice much difference in acceleration, braking, or normal handling. Both are acceptable but not world class. The Rogue wins on space (obviously) although I was able to just squeeze a new unboxed LG front load washer in my C-Max (1/2" headroom clearance). With the rear seats down and the roof rack on the Rogue, I've fit a 42x60" glass table top and 4 metal chairs inside the Rogue with the metal decorative base (48x33x29) on the roof. Although I haven't ridden in the rear of either car, people (golfers) say the Rogue is very comfortable. Also, I think the C-Max would have a hard time fitting 4 golf bags in its hatch area (not nearly as wide as the Rogue) without removing the longer clubs from the bags. I have loaded down both vehicles at least once. We went geode gathering with the Rogue and had 4 people plus maybe 500 pounds of geodes and equipment on the 125 mile trip home. The Rogue handled and performed well at 75 mph. On a trip home from Home Depot with the C-Max loaded with about 500 pounds of stuff plus 2 people, the C-Max seemed a little less sure than the Rogue with more body roll on quick direction changes. In summary, disregarding the noise level (and poorer FE of the Rogue), I prefer "driving" the Rogue. But noise level (and FE) are key considerations for me, so I would buy the C-Max over the Rogue as my main vehicle. Of course, this comparison is for a 2008 Rogue. The 2014MY is the second generation Rogue and is likely different than 2008MY.

I rented a Dodge Grand Caravan last summer. Specs say 19.6' turning radius (39.2' turning diameter) and CR says turning circle is 42 feet. Other than being larger than the C-Max, I don't recall any turning / parking issues with the Caravan that I didn't expect. Obviously because the Caravan is larger than the C-Max, the Caravan will be more problematic than the C-Max when fitting it in a tight space. I believe because of the size of the C-Max, I expect it to have a smaller turning circle than it actually does. But once you get use to its larger turning circle, the C-Max does fits nicely in smaller parking spaces usually found in parking garages and is much easier to park in a tight 90* space than the minivan. I also forgot to mention that in backing out of 90* parking spaces, many times I do multipoint turns as again the turning circle (41') is rather large whereas my Rogue makes it without multipoint turns.

I just went out an approximated the curb-to-curb of the C-Max at 38+ feet. So, 38.4 feet appears correct. But here's the issue: the front end of the C-Max extends well beyond the outer edge of the tire when completing the 180 * turn - I'd estimate over 2 feet. In addition, it appears that the outer edge of the C-Max tire is inside its body side line which adds a several inches to the start of the turn should there be an immovable obstruction on the outside of the contemplated turn. I also measured my Nissan Rogue curb-to-curb at about 36+ feet. The front end sticks out about a foot+ when completing the turn and the outer edge of the tires appears even with the side body panels. So, the difference between my C-Max and Rogue is about 20 inches curb-to-curb (as measured on the ground). This in itself is a big difference. But add to that the additional "overhang" of the C-Max and it easy to see why making a U-turn with cars parked on both sides of the street or making right turns into tight 90* parking spaces can be problematic. I've driven / owned other larger cars with 38+ foot curb-to-curb turning circles but don't remember any that seemed as problematic in such simple things as following the curbs of drive-thrus and not hitting the metal / concrete posts. :) Bottom line: the 41 foot turning circle can be a minor annoyance especially if one forgets what car they are driving. :)

IMO, yes. I don't recall any of my recent car that had such a wide turning circle of 41 feet (per Consumer Reports). When I pull into tighter parking spaces, many times I have to straighten up as I start the turn way to late and don't swing out wide enough when pulling in. My Nissan has a turning circle of 39 feet. My 2009 Jetta TDI had a 36 foot turning circle. The extra 2-5 feet makes quite a difference. Also, for comparison the Prius V has a turning circle of 39 feet. When Edmunds tested the car they said: "Although the C-Max's steering feels normal and not artificially electric as in some hybrids, the car feels like it has an exceptionally wide turning radius. We find ourselves doing multipoint turns just to get into the Starbucks drive-thru. When we look up the actual turning circle reported by Ford, we're genuinely surprised to see it's just 35.8 feet, a typical number for a car this size." I don't know how Ford measured this turning circle but it is no way the same as was my Jetta TDI and not even close to my Nissan. To be clear, ConsumerReports turning circle is " the bumper clearance needed to make a U-turn" which is the important number when one is pulling into parking spaces and making U-turns.

You should always be able to unlock the car with the key although I haven't tried it since I've never had a dead battery.

See the attached PDF here. http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/3173-oil-change-required-problem/?do=findComment&comment=40165

I think I could probably get it shipped for $600 or so from CA. But, it doesn't make economic sense for me as the mileage I'd being replacing is my around town C-Max miles (12k per year max.). So that saves about 300 gallons a year or around $1050 less around $270 for charging kWh. So, with additional routine maintenance saving, I might save $850 year with the Focus. Even bumping that up to $1000 as I'd get rid of my small SUV (1000 miles per year), the loss of $5k ($11k-$6k) adds around 5 years to simple payback.

I've owned two other Fords - 1965 Mustang and a 1986 Mercury Sable Wagon. I've never leased as I keep cars a long time. So, RCL meant nothing to me. :) I was suspicious of the price and that's why I called a local dealership. When I talked to the salesman, I said I have a question on the price and said "I can't believe that the Focus electric has a $11,000 cash incentive and I'll get the Federal Tax Credit of $7500 also. To which he said yes you also get the $7500 Federal tax credit. I said, this is unbelieveable that I can get $18,500 off the Fusion Electric. He said yes that's why there are none in AZ but maybe some in CA. I would have eventually discovered that it was a lease offer had he found one. The first pic below is what one gets when clicking Focus Electric on Ford's website. Note the clearly stated lease in the first pic. The middle pic is what comes up for build and price. No mention of lease in the middle pic but the $11,000 pops up.. The 3rd pic shows the "circle i" balloon. Again no mention of lease except the RCL. Had I clicked on the "circle i" balloon in the first pic, the lease math comes up with the numbers including the $11,000 cash incentive. Also, when one goes to Fords incentives web page, the $11,000 does not come up anywhere including under leasing offers. The $6,000 cash comes up under financing and retail offers. Again not very transparent descriptions of what is going on as one navigates the Ford site.