plus 3 golfer

hybridbear, you've found the official Ford answer to the 0W20 Motorcraft engine oil question but I would like to see the actual specs for Ford's 0W20 and 5W20. The Motorcraft document is as official as it gets. Mobil1 site says basically they don't have the specs for the 2013 / 2014 C-Max (probably the same for all 2L Atkinson Engines as I didn't check) so Mobil can't recommend an engine oil. I thought that was odd as the site at one time showed that their 0W20 was recommended for the 2013 C-Max. As I said before Ford's "front line of defense" is always the last to find out or can't tell until something has officially been released. :) It wouldn't surprise me if it takes a while for Ford to make the revision to the 2013 Owner's Manual. I'm about ready for my 20k OC and will use Mobil 1 0W20 as I did for my 10k OC.

Yes, the update supposedly better manages grille cover operation but with the covers you know you are minimizing air flow through the engine compartment and likely optimizing coolant temperature. Also, the covers should help by reducing aerodynamic drag. With about a 12 mile commute, your ICE may still not be up to operating temperature. Use Engineering Test Mode (do search for procedure) and you can monitor coolant temperature. Let us know what you see at various distances on a cold morning commute.

I doubt that there is anything "wrong". Fuelly.com show about 39.7 mpg overall FE. Of course we don't know your driving style but cold temperatures kill FE for several reasons: air density increases as temperature drops and can result in a significant FE hit from a summer 25C ambient temperature, Internal Combustion Engine warm-up time is longer, ICE may never reach operating temperature on short trips, use of heater, heated seats during cold weather drains High Voltage Battery, internal friction is higher with lower temperatures and so forth. Also, the magnitude of say a hit on FE due to cold weather is greater on a more fuel efficient vehicle (say 40 mpg) than on a vehicle that gets low fuel economy (say 20s mpg). There are a number of things one can do to help with winter FE (there are many threads / posts on the subject). Probably the most improvement will be seen if you can 1) temper the use of heating the seat and cabin until ICE is near operating temperature and 2) use grille covers probably year round in Calgary - ptjones sells them but you can use anything to seal off the lower and middle grille in the winter such as tape, split foam copper pipe insulation and so forth.

And the Ford rep will be the last to know (tell).:) I wouldn't expect them to say anything different. Maybe they can post PDF files of both specs? It wouldn't surprise me if the Mobil1 0W20 AFE meets both specs.

Ford has a new oil spec out for the 2014 C-Max as shown below. The spec for the 2013 C-Max is WSS-M2C945-A which is met by Motorcraft XO-5W20-QSP/QFS. The question: does the new spec supersede the old spec for the 2013s? On the surface it appears that the change is to the viscosity of the oil which likely helps in FE especially during warm-up. I can not find any other manufacturers' engine oils that meet the 2014 Ford spec. The new Ford spec. may be too new for manufacturers to list / develop an oil that meets the new spec. Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W20 meets or exceeds the requirements of WSS-M2C945-A.

Unless Ford changed the Oil Life Monitor the attached pdf should still apply. oil life monitor.pdf

See post 1100 - it's in the service manual.

You can by putting the left display in Engineering Test Mode. Do search for procedure. Also, you don't have a conventional alternator, starter, or transmission. Motor / Generator (MG1) inside the eCVT is primarily used as a generator to charge the high voltage battery. MG1 is also used as the starter motor powered by the high voltage battery to crank ICE. The 12 V battery is charged from the high voltage battery via a DC/DC converter. The DC/DC converter also supplies the 12 V system load (there is no alternator).

With regards to Installing a 12V battery other than the BXT-67R, the following from the service manual "urgently recommends" that a replacement battery for the BXT-67R have the same specs as the OE battery. Apparently the software makes assumptions about the battery for use in charging relying on the accuracy of the Battery Monitoring Sensor. In addition, it appears that there is a reset procedure to be done on the BMS when the 12 V battery is replaced. So, the preceding discussions on replacing the BXT-67R with a higher capacity battery may be moot. Also note that if one wants to disconnect the negative from the battery, one should do what Alex Sams did and disconnect at the chassis ground point.

I've also been using full synthetic in all my cars since late '70s. I've owned mostly MB and VW diesels and used Mobil Delvac 1 in my early diesels. There was virtually no access to lab testing back then as there is now to do Used Oil Analysis (UOA). I gradually increased my OCI in my early diesels from every 3k to around 10k adding about a quart of makeup oil every 2-3k miles. When I got rid of my 1978 and 1982 diesels they had 250k and 275k miles and compression was still well within spec. No wear evident on the cams. The only thing I ever did to the engine was put an offset woodruff key in the 1982 (chain was stretching) to better adjust timing. The biggest difference I noticed with synthetic vs dino oil was starting in the winter in PA and my initial 5 miles or so until the engine warmed up. Within 1/2 mile of my home I had a steep hill that I could only get up to about 40 mph (due to curve) before I started climbing. My speed would fall to less than 30 mph in my '78 with dino oil while with synthetic I could maintain 40 mph up the hill floored. I haven't kept any gas cars quite that long. I'm a fan of synthetic oil but not UOAs as I have been doing research on this subject for many recent years wanting to ensure longevity of my recent diesels. TBN is the most relevant number not wear metals. Your TBN is low but you don't know what it started out at. Also, read this on variability in TBN testing. I did a quick search and couldn't find anyone that tested virgin QSP for TBN. I'd look for an oil with higher initial TBN. I really don't think much of Blackstone or any labs comments. They are canned and offer little value. IMO, the labs are in the business to make money and will promote continued UOAs with their comments by putting a little apprehension in the comments. As far as comparing wear metals to averages, wear rates decrease as oil ages (more miles). Ford participated in a study a few years ago (when I have time I'll see if I can find it) on a taxi fleet. The bottom line was that more frequent oil changes resulted in more ppm wear. The reason is believed to be due to the detergents in new oil stripping the protective boundary layer (which one wants between surfaces) and then when the detergents are depleted (within a few k miles), the boundary protection is built back up (I'm not a tribologist so likely not using proper terms). So, by changing oil more frequently one is operating their engine with less "protection" more of the time than one that is changing their oil less frequently. Many car owners believe that UOAs are a proactive way to catch and correct likely failures down the road. Below are a few quotes and links. IMO, the best use of UOAs are to optimize ones OCI (hopefully extending it) by monitoring TBN. The benefits of extending OCI are both environmental and economical but at $35 a pop, that's a lot of $ to make up by extending OCI. From AVLAB: From Doug Hillary (from my research in the past on UOAs, this summarizes my conclusions of the research):

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2990-13c07-ignition-door-chime/?hl=13c07 In / out in one hour.

bemyaz, you don't have to have a Ford dealer do service / scheduled maintenance work (not warranty / recall work) on your cars just because you own Fords. There's got to be independent mechanics / shops that provide excellent customer service in your area. Your own words: "Once you find a worm in your salad, you jus never go back to that restaurant." ;)

One doesn't need the cranking amps of this Odyssey battery in the C-Max because engine cranking is not supplied by the 12 V battery in the C-Max. One needs reserve capacity (RC) to handle parasitic loads on the battery when the HVB is not charging the 12 V battery in the C-Max. The Odyssey RC is only 78 minutes shown below under the specs (not much better than the stock C-Max battery of 65 minutes). This Odyssey is a perfect example of a battery with very, very high CCA and a relatively low RC. The Ah rating of 44 for the Odyssey is rather low. The RC of the Interstate 96R battery that I linked to above is 95 minutes. Again, IMO the cranking amps of the 12 V battery in the C-Max is not the issue. It's that a parasitic load is draining the C-Max 12 V battery after shutdown. If there was normal "sleep" mode current draw on the 12 V C-Max battery, the battery voltage would not be dropping to low 12 V or lower as some who have had the dead battery issue have observed. IMO, the Interstate battery or a Ford BXT-96R is a much better choice than the Odyssey battery for the C-Max. The question still remains what batteries will fit in the C-Max beside the stock BXT-67R. PC1200MJT Specs:1200 cranking amps for 5 seconds1090 cranking amps for 10 seconds900 cranking amps for 20 secondsShort circuit current over 2600A44 amp hours78 minute reserve capacity with 25amp loadSAE Brass Automotive TerminalsMetal jacketLength 7.87"Width 6.66"Height 6.80"Weighs 38 lbs

After looking at the 12V battery compartment again (I looked at it long time ago), there does not appear to be sufficient space (especially lengthwise) to put in a much larger battery as there are auxiliary plates that attach to the positive and negative terminals which will likely interfere and also not a lot of space at the bottom of the battery tray for a much larger battery including hold the hold down. We may be stuck with the BXT-67R size and no alternatives at this time. If you look at the link, you will see that the 96R size with a 95 RC is about 0.7 inches longer than the 67R and may not fit. Edit: if I look at the link that Bill-N posted, it appears that a 96R battery should fit in a C-Max. I guess someone needs to try it out. :)

CCA may not be the appropriate rating I'd look for in determining battery capacity for a car not having a conventional starter as there is likely not the same proportional relationship between CCA and more appropriate ratings between different battery manufacturers. IMO, Amp hours (Ah) or Reserve Capacity (RC) would seem to be a better measure if one wants to buy a battery that may extend the time until the battery is discharged to the point that the voltage is no longer sufficient to power the C-Max electronics to start the car via the HVB and MG1. I'd find a battery with the highest Ah or RC rating although many times manufacturers may not supply both ratings. Here's an Interstate battery with 590 CCA and a RC (at 25 A draw) of 95 minutes. The Ford C-Max BXT-67R has a RC rating of 65 minutes. Sears Diehard group 36R battery shows 650 CCA and 130 RC (although it may be slightly longer and not fit).

Might be a good idea as the C-Max flexible belly pan in only about 4 1/2" off the ground. Trying to drive through deeper snow could prove problematic without a plow on the front end. :) I guess the 5 1/2" of ground clearance (specs) assumes the belly pan bends upwards one inch when hitting objects. I have straddled truck tire rubber in the C-Max at high speeds thinking I should have cleared it only to hear it hit the underside (reason I know the "real" clearance of the C-Max).

Looks like someone removed the Hybrid badge that should be below the SEL badge, the "E" in SEL, and moved the "L" to the "E" location.

Here's my thoughts on full grille covers when you are using AC. You want air flow through the condenser to remove heat. Otherwise, the electric compressor has to work harder. IIRC, the grille shutters are normally operated during normal AC operation allowing air flow through the condenser and radiator. The electric fan may also come on to lower coolant temperature especially during AC operation and higher coolant temperature and also would have to work harder because of the air flow restriction of the grille covers. So, is the net effect of grille covers worth it in terms of FE savings and potential earlier replacement of equipment? I have a set of grille covers and planned to use them on our trips across country normally made in late October / November time frame when not using AC. But this year we went in late August and returned in mid September. My intent was to run with the full covers once I got out of the valley of the sun. So, in Show Low, AZ (6000') and temps in the 70s about 10:30 PM, I put the full covers on and shut the ac off. I have DashCommand and Engine Link loaded on my IPad so I could monitor coolant temperature (along with other stuff). This is what I noted. 1) Gold Canyon (1835' elevation) to Show Low (150 miles of up and down mountains to 6000' elevation) ambient about 90F at start with AC on - coolant temperature ran around 200F going downhill and about 212 going uphill at speed of around 65 mph. This to me indicates that the shutters were likely operating. In Show Low, I put both full covers on and turned AC off as ambient was in the 70s and it was nighttime. 2) Show Low to Quemado, NM still climbing to the 7000'+ elevation with ambient in the upper 60s - low 70s with grille covers on. Coolant temperature was between 222F and 235F depending on downhill vs uphill speed about 65+ mph except through towns. About 15 miles outside of Quemado, I stopped and took off covers as I was about to head to I 40 (about 75 miles) at higher speeds on a very good two lane, fairly flat, rarely traveled road as I didn't want to continue running with average coolant temps around 230F once I got on I 40. Coolant temps immediately dropped to the 200+F range at about 70 mph. 3) Once I got on I 40, I ran at with Eco-Cruise set at 78 mph (Garmin GPS) and still going up / down mountains. Coolant temperature averaged around 210F. 4) About 7am (East of Albuquerque) I needed to turn AC back on and coolant temps dropped on average 10*F+ degrees to around 200F. So it appears that the PCM was likely regulating grille shutters to keep coolant temperature around 200*F with AC on. In any event, I don't want to run full covers when I'm using the AC. Also, I don't want to run covers with coolant temperature averaging 230F even though there in no alarm message. On the trip East I got overall 40.4 mpg - door to door with an average speed of 68.4 mph (gps miles / gps moving time). My average speed on interstates (about 1600 miles) was 72.3 mph. On the trip back home, I averaged nearly 74 mph on interstates mainly because I drove very little during darkness so I set eco-cruise about 1-2 mph higher. I also battled a strong quartering wind from MO into AZ and rain in AZ high country and my overall return mpg dropped to 38.3 mpg. Overall, door to door round trip, I averaged 69.1 mph and 39.2 mpg with me, wife, our black lab and luggage (maybe 450 - 475 pounds). As far as the economics, I assume that had I run the grille covers for the entire trip I would average no more than 2 mpg better. So, (4080 miles / 39.2 mpg) = 104 gallons actual fuel put in the tank with no covers vs. (4080 / 41.2) = 99 gallons estimated had I used full covers. So, is the cost of saving at most 5 gallons of fuel worth the risk of running the coolant at 230F for 4k miles? It may be for some but not for me.

Changed mine today at 19.5k miles (before watching the video) and it took less than 10 minutes. My second one will take considerably less time (assuming I can still bend over and then get back up from the awkward position). :) My CAF was not nearly as dirty as fotomoto's CAF (I'll probably wait longer next time - at least to 20k). I wonder what Ford's shop time is for this? Do they charge in 15 minute TU? Local Ford parts guy wanted to sell me a CAF for about $25 plus tax compared to less than $20 including shipping online. When I said I can get one from a Ford dealer online shipped free priority mail for less than $20, he said he couldn't discount his. Ordered CAF Friday afternoon and arrived Tuesday around noon. Also, so one doesn't have to spend 25+ minutes watching the video, one can follow the steps below. You'll need a T20 bit / screwdriver (a T15 will be a loose fit but will work) and a light to see. 1) put passenger seat all the way back, remove passenger floor mat (if you have a mat over the carpet it might interfere with procedure) and locate fiber cover between under side of dash and floor held in place by 2 plastic caps on posts projecting down from under dash. 2) remove two plastic caps from posts (turn / pull caps from posts), slip post holes in fiber cover over posts, and pull fiber cover out 3) locate CAF cover with plastic squeeze tabs to the left near firewall under the passenger dash on the center console vertical surface.and remove screw at bottom of CAF cover with T20 bit 4) compress plastic tabs on CAF cover and while compressing pull cover off (pull down and out while compressing tabs) 5) grab CAF and pull / wiggle out of slot (note the foam seal is to the engine compartment) 6) squeeze new CAF on flexible pleated sides to make rigid top and bottom come closer together as you insert top then bottom into CAF slot making sure the foam seal is towards the engine (it's not as hard as the video makes it appear) and then push / slide / wiggle remainder of CAF into slot 7) reverse steps 1) - 4)

Old news. A seach in the google box above for "virginia hybrid tax" shows this link two links down: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/3454-va-repeals-the-hybrid-tax/?hl=virginia

IMO, three things are affecting potential buyers of a used C-Max: reliability, FE, and Ford's discount on new ones. Reliability and FE have been beat to death. So, anyone doing research on the C-Max will likely account for those two factors in their purchase decision. But just as important is Ford's heavily discounting of new ones now and throughout the sale of MY2013s. For example, when I purchased my SEL in Dec. 2012, MSRP including destination was $29,240 (only option was ext. protection package). X-Plan pricing brought my cash price down to $27,950. Taking into account the $1000 incentive at that time plus the $1000 brochure Private Cash Offer, I ended up paying $25,950 + taxes and fees. KBB shows my SEL with 19k miles at $20,329. That's a drop of about 22% in value which I do not consider unusual for the 1st year of ownership. I would have no issues selling my car for $20k now if I wanted to get rid of it. Very early adopters that paid about sticker of course will see a larger drop in value.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml

Your free subscription will lapse and unless you renew you need to do nothing. If you renew, you will automatically be billed at the then going rate once the renewal expires. So, prior to your renewal expiring, you need to call and cancel. What I do (when I want a subscription for Sirius), is to allow the renewal to "get into" their system (I allow one week) and then call and cancel the renewal effective at the end of the renewal period. Thus, I don't have to remember to call later and cancel. I've have never had a problem doing this. Also, you will likely get offers to renew either in the mail or email. If you wait and let some time pass, you will likely get offers like 6 months for $25 or 5 months for $20 (my latest offer a few weeks ago). I have yet to renew Sirius since my free subscription expired in June 2013. Also, you can likely negotiate one of those deals if enough time has passed since your subscription expired. C-Max Sea, the idea of one thread with everyone posting sounds good but I believe someone (the originator?) needs to summarize the results in a document and post or link to it in the first post. Otherwise, I doubt most will read through XXX pages of likely mostly "garbage" :) and the thread will end up being mostly useless. I've seen this happen on many forums. The ones that survive virtually always have a keeper of the data. My 2013 Hybrid SEL has: grille covers, gas pods, 3M clear bra, ELM 327 WIFI, EngineLInk and DashCommand for IPod / Iphone, sisal floor mats, Garmin 3590 LMT, and Intro-Tech Ultimate Sun Shade.

The "official" EPA numbers are in the EPA database and on the Monroney Sticker (window sticker). Ford could always change them but better have a very good reason as their credibility will sink even lower. I also doubt EPA will be thrilled with a change especially if higher. Here's a snippet of selected data from the EPA database. Note the viscosity of the oil for the 2014 HEVs. I don't know what the 225.10 means but it is has similar numbers as MB oil specs.

This has been asked and answered before.