Edsel Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Unless you guys know something they don't, I'm going to trust the Ford engineers on this one. All the changes sound logical to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Unless you guys know something they don't, I'm going to trust the Ford engineers on this one. All the changes sound logical to me. Trust the engineers.... :headscratch: I asked them about the 62mph limitation back in Feb 2013 at the Irvine pow-wow and they said it could NOT be done, not enough battery. So now we can do this? Poof...jus like that... :stirpot: hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotomoto Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 However....I had sometime to think about this when driving home tonight...and these are my concerns: 1. 62mph threshold I think (OK, I hope) this higher EV threshold will allow more blending of EV motor power at highway speeds making it easier to achieve better hwy FE. I have a big highway trip scheduled for mid-August. If the update is available by then, I'll gladly be a Guinea pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Trust the engineers.... :headscratch: I asked them about the 62mph limitation back in Feb 2013 at the Irvine pow-wow and they said it could NOT be done, not enough battery. So now we can do this? Poof...jus like that... :stirpot: Ok, don't get the upgrade and continue to drive 35 MPH. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPRifleman Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 The engineer in me is scratching my head over this. There is no such thing as a "free" mileage gain. There has to be something that is given up. It might be something (or a bunch of things) that is minor and not noticed but I wonder what that is. hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testdriver Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 The engineer in me is scratching my head over this. There is no such thing as a "free" mileage gain. There has to be something that is given up. It might be something (or a bunch of things) that is minor and not noticed but I wonder what that is. I hear ya. Some things are pretty obvious. The AC and heater will probably not cool/heat as fast. Hopefully shortening the engine warm-up time doesn't wear down the engine, but I'm not sure what other drawbacks there would be for that. I'm not sure if there's any drawbacks to optimizing the shutters either. hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 The engineer in me is scratching my head over this. There is no such thing as a "free" mileage gain. There has to be something that is given up. It might be something (or a bunch of things) that is minor and not noticed but I wonder what that is.The penalty might be a slight decrease in performance under normal driving and even a FE penalty is one drives aggressively. It appears Ford is optimizing powertrain efficiency (similar to what tuners might do for an economy tune) especially for higher driving speeds. The update also appears to be reducing the overly conservative operational margins of various systems like grille shutters, coolant fan speed, ac compressor and so forth. I think several of us have shown the operation of the grille shutters appears very conservative. These updates are, in essence, "free". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemax71 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 In my situation, I think allowing EV-only mode above 62 mph will improve mpg's in hilly areas.There are several places I drive with long downhill stretches (speed limit of 65-70 mph) that would allow EV-only mode requiring very little battery or even provide regeneration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizM Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I absolutely love the way my A/C cools down so fast compared to any other gas engine vehicle I have ever owned. I would hate to give that up now that I've had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnrobitaille Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 There is a minor issue everyone is missing, that the C-Max Energi only has a range of 21 miles on EV Mode with the speed limited to 85 MPH max. Have the engineers also figured out a way to increase mileage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaDadMiami Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I am willing to bet that the capability has always been there; it's just been a matter of testing to make sure that the changes wouldn't fry the batteries, or some equivalent. Probably, they concluded longer range testing, and they can now unleash the full capability of the batteries without damage. Some of the other enhancements are also the result of testing over longer terms, like warm up, etc. Just a guess. I don't know anything special. salsaguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlapean Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 All of the tweaking points seem to make sense but I'm not a car engine expert, so I'm just alittle concerned about the last point,.......minimizing AC Compressor usage. I understand cutting back energy use in the Wintertime, but would this mean that in the summertime you may not get the Cold AC you expect, when you really do need/want it,......you know, on those Humid 95 degree days when you really want good air conditioning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adair Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Let's hope it's not a case of *Be careful what you wish for...........* hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I am willing to bet that the capability has always been there; it's just been a matter of testing to make sure that the changes wouldn't fry the batteries, or some equivalent. Probably, they concluded longer range testing, and they can now unleash the full capability of the batteries without damage. Some of the other enhancements are also the result of testing over longer terms, like warm up, etc. Just a guess. I don't know anything special. That about what I was thinking. Maybe the SOC thresholds will be changed. hybridbear and ScubaDadMiami 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Ok, don't get the upgrade and continue to drive 35 MPH. ;)Makes no difference to my route, given the traffic conditions it's about 10-13 mins diff and over 10+ mpg difference. I know which one I'd take. However on my Mammoth trip it will make a diff as it's all freeway and hence my concerns over the ice high mpg which gives me 40-45mpg at load. We shall see :) Might do a Laurel here....hmmh. Edited July 17, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-N Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 May I respectfully suggest that this thread me moved back to the "Fuel Mileage" category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wamba2000 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) My reaction is slightly different: I thank Ford for not just rolling this new update into only the 2014 models or after a certain point in production.Discussion had taken place about how they had to apply 3.5.1 update to MFT programmatically rather than replacing a component- likely took more work to achieve the results.Too often manufacturers issue new features with a new model and leave the early adopters with the "so what" when they want the upgrades. IMO, Ford wants a better legacy for the Hybrid products, and that is a good thing. Edited July 18, 2013 by wamba2000 Edsel, gehrls, hybridbear and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmckinley Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I'd like to volunteer to rewrite Ford's press release as follows: At Ford Motor Company we are always striving to improve our products. We are happy to announce the following changes to our Hybrid Vehicles: At the initial release of our 2013 models we made sure to maximize fuel economy on the EPA test so we limited electric only propulsion to 62 mph, the max speed on the EPA test. While this was good for advertising, we forgot that this limit negatively impacts normal freeway driving fuel economy so we are now changing the limit to 85mph so the hybrid system will actually help fuel economy on interstate highways at normal freeway speeds. This was no big deal since the Energi models already had that speed limit.We equipped our hybrids with Active Grille Shutters but forgot to program them to reduce aerodynamic drag under most driving and temperature conditions or to help the engine warm up quickly. In fact, we had no idea what they were supposed to do, only that Chevrolet advertises them all the time on the Cruze. We are reprogramming the Shutters so that they will actually do something, including faster warmups in cold weather, during air conditioner use and when the engine coolant temperature is higher.Our Hybrids are equipped with electric radiator fans but we forgot to tie the fan speed to coolant temperature or any other useful parameter. We are now reducing the electric fan speed as a function of coolant temperature to minimize the fan's energy consumption which we should have remembered to do in the first place.Someone noticed that it takes forever for our Hybrids' engines to warm up and in some cases never actually reach proper operating temperatures. Many owners have resorted to Duct Tape or other Southern Engineering schemes to block off grille openings to promote faster warmups and proper operating temperatures. After only twelve months of production, we finally noticed this and are now shortening engine warm-up time by up to 50 percent to enable electric-only driving and engine shutdown at stops sooner after cold starts.Our Hybrids' air conditioner compressors run most of the time, not necessarily related to demand for cold air. We are now optimizing the climate control system to minimize use of the air conditioning compressor and reduce the energy used in cold weather operation.We are confident that these changes and the secret changes implemented as part of the previous 3.5.1 upgrade will help improve customer satisfaction and help us sell more of these cars at profitable prices instead of having to give them away to the rental companies. PWBarrett, plus 3 golfer, DaveofDurham and 8 others 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybridbear Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 In my situation, I think allowing EV-only mode above 62 mph will improve mpg's in hilly areas.There are several places I drive with long downhill stretches (speed limit of 65-70 mph) that would allow EV-only mode requiring very little battery or even provide regeneration.Since these cars have DFSO (Decel Fuel Shut Off) the ICE may stay on above 62 MPH but the injectors stop spraying fuel into the cylinders when the ICE isn't needed even though it is technically still on. I don't see how increasing the EV threshold will help. It will take away ICE High mode which has proven very efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaPieR Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 You could still do high ice mode, it'll just he really tedious like when using it at speeds between 50 and 62 mph. You'd have to feather the throttle to keep the electric motor from kicking in. It gets old fast, I like being able to just hit eco cruise. But maybe the programming changes will reduce charging at high speed and hold ice unless you are going through an incline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnOhio Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Love it !!!! Most of my driving is on the freeway. This will help me break into the 50's. :love_shower: I'm getting 46 to 49 mpg now in the warm weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Since these cars have DFSO (Decel Fuel Shut Off) the ICE may stay on above 62 MPH but the injectors stop spraying fuel into the cylinders when the ICE isn't needed even though it is technically still on. I don't see how increasing the EV threshold will help. It will take away ICE High mode which has proven very efficient. Learn something new everyday. Never heard of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemax71 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Since these cars have DFSO (Decel Fuel Shut Off) the ICE may stay on above 62 MPH but the injectors stop spraying fuel into the cylinders when the ICE isn't needed even though it is technically still on. I don't see how increasing the EV threshold will help. It will take away ICE High mode which has proven very efficient.The manual says that DFSO only occurs only during closed throttle deceleration. Like when you are exiting a freeway and take your foot off the pedal to slow down or going down a steep hill.The tachometer should indicate whether the ICE is running. hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnMarty Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I imagine we'll have to bring our cars into the dealer for this upgrade, right? Won't be able to download it online and install ourselves, right? Any indication on time frame here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhackwyatt Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Since these cars have DFSO (Decel Fuel Shut Off) the ICE may stay on above 62 MPH but the injectors stop spraying fuel into the cylinders when the ICE isn't needed even though it is technically still on. I don't see how increasing the EV threshold will help. It will take away ICE High mode which has proven very efficient.I've learned that from the new Hybrid display screen. Sometimes the Engine remains on but the Fuel stops flowing. I imagine we'll have to bring our cars into the dealer for this upgrade, right? Won't be able to download it online and install ourselves, right? Any indication on time frame here?Yes, Yes. August (at least from everything I've read) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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