Ford to Offer Free Updates to Boost Hybrid Vehicle Efficiency

[salsaguy]

i wonder if this fix/patch is coming out of the talks/negotiations with the EPA and the legal/lawsuit problems of the low mpg complainers, or just from their good hearts :)

Edited July 18, 2013 by salsaguy

[salsaguy]

can you ask them what month / build code this will take effect on? since we have a few members here with new cmaxes now on order and arriving soon so it will be nice to know who to track to see how their mpgs differ from other brand new owners from the first batch in 2012.

I asked on the C Max facebook page if this would be done to my car being built on 7/18. Alan answered saying yes, as of today it is being done at the factory.

 

I feel lucky. Almost like getting a 2014 model

Edited July 19, 2013 by salsaguy

[salsaguy]

maybe Jus can pick some Ford reps brains this weekend at the eco boost challenge event in Los Angeles during or after the hypermile part and find out more about all of this.....

Edited July 18, 2013 by salsaguy

[nsteblay]

I will be curious how this impacts the ICE High Mode or Negative Split Mode.  The C-Max only get in this mode when the battery is fully charged.  I've never been able to get the car in this mode unless I travel over 62 MPH for several minutes.  

 

The Negative Spit Mode has been efficient for me.  Once in this mode I get low 40's between 65 to 75 MPH.

 

If the EV can kick in up to 85 MPH I can't see my car ever getting into the Negative Split Mode.  

 

... from previous post ...

 

4 Modes of Operation

 

Series Mode

• Used only when vehicle is not moving and the engine is running
• Engine may be running for battery charging, cabin or battery temperature control, or catalyst warm-up.

Positive Split Mode

• Engine is ON and driving the generator motor to produce electricity
• Power from the engine is split between the direct path to the road and the path through the generator motor
• Generator power can flow to the battery or to the traction motor
• The traction motor can operate as a motor or a generator to make up the difference between the engine power and the desired power
• This is the preferred mode whenever the battery needs to be charged or when at moderate loads and low vehicle speeds

Negative Split Mode

• The engine is on and the generator motor consumes electrical energy to reduce engine speed
• The traction motor can operate as a motor or a generator to make up the difference between the engine power and the desired power
• Typical highway mode
• Occurs when the engine needs to be on, the system can not be operated in parallel mode and the battery is charged near its upper limit

Electric Mode

• The vehicle is propelled by stored electrical energy only
• The engine is turned off
• The tractive torque supplied from the traction motor
• Preferred mode whenever the desired power is low enough such that it can be produced more efficiently by electrical system than engine
• Preferred mode in reverse because the engine can not deliver reverse torque
• Separate electric pump maintains power assisted steering

The ICE High is Negative Split Mode.  These modes are described in the OBDII Theory and Operation available here.

 

 

[HPRifleman]

Too many people believe the myth that car companies are free to advertise whatever mileage values they want for their cars.

[RaPieR]

You can get into the negative split mode even when you are within the 62mph ev treshold. The only problem is that it is very tedious. Hopefully the eco cruise programming will automatically handle that at +65mph speed and maintain high ice. I don't think cycling between ev and ice at high speed similar to the management at lower speed city driving will really help much if at all.

[homestead]

I will be curious how this impacts the ICE High Mode or Negative Split Mode.  The C-Max only get in this mode when the battery is fully charged.  I've never been able to get the car in this mode unless I travel over 62 MPH for several minutes.  

 

The Negative Spit Mode has been efficient for me.  Once in this mode I get low 40's between 65 to 75 MPH.

 

If the EV can kick in up to 85 MPH I can't see my car ever getting into the Negative Split Mode.  

 

You will still be able to get in the Negative Split Mode you just have to drive 90 MPH to do it. :)

[wab]

Is this upgrade going to send the hybrids back to the EPA for a new test?

[slampro]

can you ask them what month / build code this will take effect on? since we have a few members here with new cmaxes now on order and arriving soon so it will be nice to know who to track to see how their mpgs differ from other brands new owners from the first batch in 2012.

 

I have not been able to fully verify this yet. Alan from Cmax facebook page is the only one to give me a direct answer either way. I have also been talking with Eric at Ford, who also contacted me through that facebook page. Eric is unable to give me a 100% answer. He told me to contact my dealer. My dealer is "looking into it". I do not have confirmation yet. I sure would like any and all these updates to be done while it's built today, rather than have to wait for dealer to do it.

 

Either way, I am very happy that today is the day it will be built. Excited that we will have it in just a few weeks! :woohoo:

[11StiLimited]

Latest news (I Think):

 

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2013/07/ford-to-improve-fuel-economy-of-existing-hybrids.html

[ArizonaEnergi]

Latest news (I Think):

 

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2013/07/ford-to-improve-fuel-economy-of-existing-hybrids.html

Well, this is just great. The Energi version, being about 10% (guess) of the C-Max market, isn't important enough to include in the update?

The changes affect the Ford Fusion Hybrid and C-Max Hybrid models, although they do not affect plug-in versions of those cars "which have different hardware and different operating characteristics," says Ford spokesman Bill Collins.

[plus 3 golfer]

Is this upgrade going to send the hybrids back to the EPA for a new test?

According to Ford, no.

[obob]

What are the negatives of each of these upgrades?     What do we lose, to gain this additional mpg?

 

Basically I don't know the answer to that, however, one concern I have are those 2 and 3 and 4 mile drives I make to the store or to pick up pizza.  I usually get 30 something miles/gallon.  If the engine is warmed up faster via running rather than via intake louvers being closed, I am thinking those short trip mpg might take a hit.

Edited July 18, 2013 by obob

[Edsel]

Well, this is just great. The Energi version, being about 10% (guess) of the C-Max market, isn't important enough to include in the update?

That stinks.

[plus 3 golfer]

Too many people believe the myth that car companies are free to advertise whatever mileage values they want for their cars.

Have you read this.  Manufacturers can give other estimates of FE along with the EPA numbers.  

 

Below is an excerpt, which IIRC, I referred to in another thread.

 

 

 

© Fuel economy estimates derived from a non-EPA test may be disclosed provided that:

(1) The advertisement also discloses the “estimated city mpg” and/or the “estimated highway mpg,” as required by § 259.2(a), and the disclosure required by § 259.2(a), and gives the “estimated city mpg” and/or the “estimated highway mpg” figure(s) substantially more prominence than any other estimate; 7 provided, however, for radio and television advertisements in which any other estimate is used only in the audio, equal prominence must be given the “estimated city mpg” and/or the “estimated highway mpg” figure(s);

[StoBro2]

If Ford wanted to, they could perform a stunt like what VW did recently with their Passat TDI and have some super hyper-miler do something like travel the length of some historic road (preferably one with a low speed limit and plenty of stop and go driving to cater to the strength of hybrid technology) and publish that number in addition to the EPA numbers.

 

Didn't Ford do something with the 300HP V-6 Mustang a few years ago? I seem to recall a steady 45MPH around a track yielded a very high MPG figure.

 

Just don't expect Ford or anyone else to advertise any figures that are lower than the EPA estimate. Why would they spend money to advertise that?

[plus 3 golfer]

Exactly, it wouldn't look good if Ford also pointed to the CR tests in their Prius V vs C-Max commercials:

 

Prius V -- CR's city/highway, mpg -- 37/47

C-Max  -- CR's city/highway, mpg -- 35/38

 

But then aren't the Prius V vs C-Max commercials that cleverly promote the EPA ratings misleading to the consumer who spends $25k for a car based on these Ford commercials? So now bad FE reviews by others and consumer complaints on FE aren't good for Ford's image.  How does Ford build / regain consumer confidence?  Offer free FE upgrades. ;)  

[plus 3 golfer]

How about the old VW 1960 vintage ads on the beetle.  IMO, gives a very accurate range of FE.

 

[obob]

Exactly, it wouldn't look good if Ford also pointed to the CR tests in their Prius V vs C-Max commercials:

 

Prius V -- CR's city/highway, mpg -- 37/47

C-Max  -- CR's city/highway, mpg -- 35/38

 

. ;)  

 

Not going to happen.

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/about-us/no-commerical-use-policy/index.htm

 

Years ago, 1960's or perhaps early 70's, Remington Shavers used the fact that CR rated their shaver #1 in Christmas TV ads and CR pretty much band them from further reviews.

 

"Businesses understand that if they violate our No Commercial Use Policy, it may have a serious impact on their own reputation for honesty and integrity (indeed, we have written about violations of our policy in our publications and in some cases, even encouraged consumers to write to those companies expressing their concern and disapproval.) Manufacturers, retailers and other businesses realize that adhering to our No Commercial Use Policy is in the best interest of their customers, the marketplace and their own commercial enterprise."

Edited July 19, 2013 by obob

[darrelld]

My Passat TDI daily exceeds the city EPA estimates and highway EPA is very close even traveling at the Texas 75 mph speed limit. It doesn't seem to matter to the Passat TDI whether the climate conditions are cold or hot. You can look at my Passat TDI fuelly stats over the past 2 years and see very little seasonal deviation.

The C-Max per tank has almost never exceeded EPA ratings during highway or city and climate extremes seem to skew the below EPA deviation dramatically. I have never been unhappy with the fuel economy and of course will be happy with an increase but I hope its not at the expensive of performance. The last thing I want is a lethargic C-Max that gains a couple of mpgs as a trade off. If this Ford update does that I will probably trade for another Jetta TDI or Jetta Hybrid both have spare tires for road trips.

[Jbtbga]

Having just received my C Max back from the dealer after 3 ATTEMPTS to do the 3.5.1 upgrade, I am more than a little nervous about this. Sill, better highway mileage and quicker warm ups would be appreciated

[plus 3 golfer]

Not going to happen.

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/about-us/no-commerical-use-policy/index.htm

 

Years ago, 1960's or perhaps early 70's, Remington Shavers used the fact that CR rated their shaver #1 in Christmas TV ads and CR pretty much band them from further reviews.

 

"Businesses understand that if they violate our No Commercial Use Policy, it may have a serious impact on their own reputation for honesty and integrity (indeed, we have written about violations of our policy in our publications and in some cases, even encouraged consumers to write to those companies expressing their concern and disapproval.) Manufacturers, retailers and other businesses realize that adhering to our No Commercial Use Policy is in the best interest of their customers, the marketplace and their own commercial enterprise."

The point is not whether Ford can use the CR data.  It's that an independent test that Ford could commision would likely result in Prius V besting the C-Max and similar numbers to the CR tests. ;)

Edited July 19, 2013 by Plus 3 Golfer

[bigalpha]

 I hope its not at the expensive of performance. The last thing I want is a lethargic C-Max that gains a couple of mpgs as a trade off.

 

I agree.  The CMax is fairly peppy for such a heavy car.  

[obob]

The point is not whether Ford can use the CR data.  It's that an independent test that Ford could commision would likely result in Prius V besting the C-Max and similar numbers to the CR tests. ;)

 

I see your point.  I think I was getting a bit loopy about the firmware update to get better mileage.  

[CassidyB]

Any time the update is mentioned on the ford cmax Facebook page, it disappears... Strange......