ArizonaEnergi Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Apparently the software makes assumptions about the battery for use in charging relying on the accuracy of the Battery Monitoring Sensor. In addition, it appears that there is a reset procedure to be done on the BMS when the 12 V battery is replaced. So, the preceding discussions on replacing the BXT-67R with a higher capacity battery may be moot. I think this is a good reminder that we're not driving our father's 1970 Buick anymore! Edited February 8, 2014 by ArizonaEnergi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Sams Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Ok, if the PCM reads the battery.... why can't we get it on the display? I'd like to know if my 12v wasn't charging, or my alternator/starter wasn't working. Louise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Ok, if the PCM reads the battery.... why can't we get it on the display? I'd like to know if my 12v wasn't charging, or my alternator/starter wasn't working. You can by putting the left display in Engineering Test Mode. Do search for procedure. Also, you don't have a conventional alternator, starter, or transmission. Motor / Generator (MG1) inside the eCVT is primarily used as a generator to charge the high voltage battery. MG1 is also used as the starter motor powered by the high voltage battery to crank ICE. The 12 V battery is charged from the high voltage battery via a DC/DC converter. The DC/DC converter also supplies the 12 V system load (there is no alternator). Edited February 9, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottWally Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Bob Would you please post your experience on a separate thread so we can track the number dead batteries after the 13B12 update has been applied? I will start the thread, titled 12 Volt Battery Failures After Customer Satisfaction 13B12 Update I hope people will only post basic info about battery failures after getting the 13B12 update and leave all discussion for other threads. That will make it easier to see the data. Above request done, but there are only a couple of posts in the 'new' thread - is everybody else doing okay after the 13B12 update? Especially interested in the cold weather climate members. Our car is garaged 85% of the time (100% at home). We did not receive a new battery at the dealer during the 13B12 update (was assured it was fine) but since this was a 2013 model purchased late in 2013, I wonder what shape that battery was in considering it sat on the dealer lot so long. They practically gave the car to me as they had so many sitting on the lot, but as I work at a hospital, reliability is most important to us. We were so proud to finally become an all Ford/US auto family for the first time in over 30 years - a little bummed now. Scott Edited February 9, 2014 by ScottWally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdefny Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Quote"The Battery Monitoring Sensor continuously monitors the condition and the state of charge of the 12V battery and provides the BCM with this information. The Battery Monitoring Sensor also estimates losses in the battery capacity over time. The Battery Monitoring Sensor should only be reset when the battery is replaced. It is urgently recommended that the replacement battery has the exact same specification as the original battery. If it does not, the accuracy of the Battery Monitoring Sensor outputs will be compromised." This may explain a similar problem I had in the Prius. Like on the C-Max, the battery was tiny and the OEM battery could only be gotten fro Toyota at great expense, so all of the folks in the forum were switching to a Miata battery. When I put that battery in, I immediately got the "Triangle of Death" (not a good thing). It went away if I put the original (almost dead) battery. Somehow the car didn't like the greater capacity battery, but it did eventually accept it. drdiesel1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdiesel1 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I would think the reset function would enable the system to calibrate itself to the replacement battery. That's what it was designed for ;)The capacity might be different, but voltage would be the primary signal that's monitored. Without knowing the systems design strategy, it's hard to tell :hat_tip: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Ryan Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 So, I'm joining the legions who have woke up to a dead battery on my new C-Max. I called the roadside assitance, and they promptly came out jumpped it with-in 30 min, but I thought it odd and suspected a defective battery so I called the dealer and took it in. They poured over it and called in for tech help, but ultimetly said there wasn't anything wrong with it and reccommended not plugging in accessories to the USB, 12V or inverter when the vehical isn't being operated. I expressed some disbelif at that suggestion and, in fact, if my iPod being plugged into to the USB port can Kill the car, I told them thats a pretty big design flaw as far as I was concerned. Even the Ford Service manager seemed to agree and said he didn't know how they could stand behind that solution. I can't help but think there is an issue like other members have reported that is slow draining the battery. Very frustrating - 3rd time I have come out to find a dead car, one of these is after the recall fix to software specifically to address this issue I was also shown a bulletin form Ford that if you have an apostrophe or any punctuation in the name of our cell phone, the sync can get stuck and not shutdown, keeping the computer / battery on all night. Silly but it was form the dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 A couple of clues have been put under our noses: 1) there seem to be at least some cases of dead batteries occurring soon after doing the 13B12 firmware update. Some of these cases might be the first dead battery problem encountered by the owner, others are the first episode after a long hiatus from problems. This might suggest that there is something in the firmware update or the updating process that triggers a dead battery event. 2) this quote repeated from Tdfny is also a clue (what was the original source?) "The Battery Monitoring Sensor continuously monitors the condition and the state of charge of the 12V battery and provides the BCM with this information." The BCM is the Body Control Module that A) regulates many electronic processes and B) has TSB out on it that talks about a bad ground connection causing random electrical events, such as things turning on or off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) ....2) this quote repeated from Tdfny is also a clue (what was the original source?) "The Battery Monitoring Sensor continuously monitors the condition and the state of charge of the 12V battery and provides the BCM with this information." ...See post 1100 - it's in the service manual. Edited February 10, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHaylett Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Hi everyone ... I'm not a C-Max owner, but I was reading this thread because I've been trying track down battery drain issues on my 2013 Edge SEL, which is currently in service after the second low battery issue in 7 weeks. The first one happened 8 weeks after I purchased the car. They said they couldn't find anything wrong, but put in a new battery. Obviously, that is not the issue. I know it's not the same car, but from reviewing this thread, it seems that you guys are referring to battery issues in the 12V battery, which is the "conventional" non-hybrid component, correct? If so, would Ford Edge owners who are having the same issues be suffering from the same malady? The service guys are saying they can't find any TSBs and have also insinuated we should drive more, too. It seems ridiculous. So, am I barking up the wrong tree here ... anyone want to chime in? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdefny Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) My brother used to have a device that sat between his battery and his car that would shut everything down if the charge got below a certain level. It sounds like Ford needs to incorporate that sort of technology into its cars. A new car should not have this problem even if the user makes a mistake like leaving the lights on. I would rather have to use the emergency key to get into the car and under the hood to a reset switch than need to call a tow truck because the battery died. Fortunately mine has been reliable, but these issues have soured so many people on this excellent car. This isn't what he had but you get the idea http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Prog-Brain-T1-Protector/dp/B000T3236M/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1392064434&sr=1-3 Edited February 10, 2014 by Tdefny obob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 My 2013 Early C-max just came back from attempt #5 by FORD to find out why it suddenly dies. They changed the battery this time. Does anyone know of an automotive engineer (not employed by Ford) that is familiar with this problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Hi everyone, This is just another reminder that I'm here to assist with this concern. If you haven't been to your dealer yet, make an appointment and send me your name, phone number, VIN, mileage, and dealer info. If you've already been to the dealer and you're still having trouble, just send me over your info. Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Louise No, I do not think anyone here has had a non-Ford mechanic or engineer work on their car, or reported any infrmation about non-Ford engineers analyzing the C-Max in general. Warranty issues would kick into play and, at this early date, everyone is still dependent on information from Ford. The idea of one of us with battery trouble donating our car to science to have its anatomy studied by an independent engineer is an attractive notion, as long as it is someone else donating their car. . . So that leaves us dependent on Ford. But there are a bunch of tips you can pick up reading these forum pages: 1) read about all the releveant Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) Ford has issued related to the 12 volt problems and make sure your service department has checked each one of them. There are relevant TSBs on the electrical grounding of the Body Control Module, water tightness of electrical connectors on the main wiring harness, and several TSBs about software related to battery charging and the shut down of electrical items. 2) evaluate whether your service department is good. If they've already checked all the TSBs they are probably good. If they check a TSB that you bring to them and report back to you with full information about what they did, then they are good. But if they have not looked up TSBs or refuse to check things in TSBs or tell you the problem is the way you drive the car, etc, then find another Ford service department. Remember that even the best service departments and mechanics are also dependent on Ford for authorizations to do warranty work and help in diagnosing problems (esp problems that tie into the complex electrical and computer systems of the C-Max). 3) Look up your state's lemon law and keep good records. C-MaxSea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisismyforumname Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Well, I've had my battery replaced twice because it was killed, and had the TSB to keep the display from waking from sleep mode already done. This morning I woke up to another dead battery. Edited February 17, 2014 by thisismyforumname Louise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike McGee Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 For what it's worth, ours has 12K miles, had the battery fail issue early on; first switched out the battery; problem persisted; then the dealer evidently applied the 13B123 patch; problem persists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdiesel1 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 These vehicle with continued battery problems all need to be checked for parasitic amperage draw problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I agree, been having my CMax over a year and have 18,000 miles on it and do not have any battery troubles even when leaving park in garage at weeks at a time. I read on another Forum that the cause was because of (Certain radios that were installed was continuing to stay on and vampire the battery), paraphrase here but do not recall the place I got it , but def could be an issue. Also I do not leave anything plug in my car when it's not running and always turn my radio off manually when leaving car. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdefny Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I leave the USB card inthe drive for music and that doesn't seem to be a problem, but it appears that the Energi tops off the 12 V battery after charging the traction battery so I might not be a valid data point for the Hybrid owners. Unfortunately, some Energi owners have also had some problems despite the regular charge, but nothing like reported here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumike Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Just checking back after a few months of no problems. The battery was replaced in Oct 2013, 13B12 done in Dec 2013. Thus far no more battery problems. Mileage went up to 46, from 44, in town. So far this is the longest stretch yet. I'll keep monitoring this site, and if anything changes, will report back. lumike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Well, I've had my battery replaced twice because it was killed, and had the TSB to keep the display from waking from sleep mode already done. This morning I woke up to another dead battery. I'll be following your story. It's identical to mine . Please keep posting and include the date of manufacture which is on your door sticker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedit Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 These vehicle with continued battery problems all need to be checked for parasitic amperage draw problems. When I had the issue on my 1st C-Max, this is what my dealer did, and apparently they saw something, but could not resolve it, which led to me simply trading it for a different one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Here we go again dead battery in my 2014 CMax SE which is a lemon law replacement for my 2013 CMax. Got the car last week, approximately 200-250 miles on it. Drove it about 40 miles yesterday. Dead this morning. never used blue tooth or sync. shut the lights off, etc and so forth. need to retrace all the steps taken with the 2013: check software, check electrical connectors for water intrusion, check Body Control Module for proper ground. My money is on the last item. Lesson for us all: the 2014 model has not corrected the root cause(s) of the dead battery syndrome. Will have more information next week. My service rep is out until Monday. JAZ and obob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedit Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 so sorry to hear this Salman :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Oh brother salman! I can't believe this is happening to you again. I am so sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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