Battery dead

[salman]

Administrative support could be helpful if your dealer service department is not authorizing a rental, if it is dismissing the 12 volt issue or not calling the engineer hotline, and it is also helpful to establish a paper trail with Ford Corporate that you would refer to in the event of a buy back case. 

 

There is no definitive fix yet. That is obvious. The latest targets (water pump, shifter lever) have just been tried. The only way to find out if they solve the problem is testing over extended time to see if there is a re-occurrence. The problem is not getting a system to work. If that were the problem, results would be instant (Eureka! It works now! Therefore we know the problem is fixed.) Instead, this is like a durability problem. The success of a fix can only be known after the elapse of a substantial period of time to see if there is a re-occurrence. 

 

The trouble shooting is being done both by engineers in Michigan and field service engineers and by mechanics at the dealerships. Information is getting shared in multiple directions (though sometimes it doesn't get shared as it should because a dealer service department is sub-par or an engineer on the hotlines is sub-pars - some are better than others, and it can take time for information about the latest trouble shooting to be widely shared, as we see here on this forum). 

 

It helps to bring your car to a good service department not only because they might play a role in finding a fix, but also because the repair record from a good service department will make a buy back case easier if it comes to that.

 

I asked the regional Customer Service Rep if I could please speak directly with one of the engineers working trouble shooting the problem. She said that was impossible, but transferred me to her supervisor who said he would at least ask. But then he became suspicious and mischievous, and  asked me if I was trying to repair the car myself . . .  .. NO!!!!! that may possibly invalidate the warranty, and that is the last thing I would want to risk - I made sure that was clear to the supervisor. They are supposed to call me back. I think it is unlikely that a contact with an engineer will be arranged.

[jaczac56]

Since my dead battery incident if I need to use the car the next day I put it on a battery tender. I have a number of vehicles and when not being run for a week or more I keep battery tenders on each. After running these vehicles and hooking up the battery tender in less than half an hour I get a green light (battery fully charged). Not so with the C-Max. It has taken a minimum of 6 hours each time to get a green light. Not sure of the significance, but I do find it odd that the only vehicle I own that has a battery problem exhibits this phenomenon.

[mikeg]

Just a quick update on our case: I had my C-Max in the shop for 9 days. They did everything that Ford Hotline told them to do - accessed, inspected and applied electrical grease to connectors C1812, C1651, C140 and C134. They also inspected PCM Connectors C175B, C175E, and C175T. No issues found. Based on hotline's recommendation they replaced coolant pump and connector and retested. In other words, we will see if any of this solved the issue or not. They told me that if it doesn't start again, I should call in and they will check if the hotline has any other recommendations on their list... I am of course hoping that some of this did the trick.. They provided us with a free rental - and I must say that I was very happy to move back to C-Max after those 9 days in a Hyundai. ;) I will keep monitoring this conversation here to see if any other new recommendations show up over time. Really hoping that we won't have any more jump-starting cases. Thank you everyone for your support & recommendations. 

[Maxy]

Update on Recall 13B12. I had this done this week on my c-max, after another dead battery. Battery checked out fine, was not replaced. They also " reprogram the front control / display interface module". They said it will fix the problem. I try to be positive and now the waiting game begins.

[salman]

Mikeg's service department seems on the ball.

 

I'm not so sure that Maxy's is. Had they called into the hotline they would have been advised to check electrical connectors, look at and maybe replace the coolant pump, and same with the shift lever. And they would not have said that reprogramming the entertainment display module will fix the problem, but it has not had a good track record of fixing the problem

 

Some service departments are better than others. Some, maybe many, will do a better job if you bring them information, such as TSB numbers and information about other repairs being done for the same problem on other cars. Ask them if they have called the service tech hotline. If they haven't called (well, it's is actually e-mail) and won't contact the hot line, then you know you need to take your car to a different service department

[Maxy]

Mikeg's service department seems on the ball.

 

I'm not so sure that Maxy's is. Had they called into the hotline they would have been advised to check electrical connectors, look at and maybe replace the coolant pump, and same with the shift lever. And they would not have said that reprogramming the entertainment display module will fix the problem, but it has not had a good track record of fixing the problem

 

Some service departments are better than others. Some, maybe many, will do a better job if you bring them information, such as TSB numbers and information about other repairs being done for the same problem on other cars. Ask them if they have called the service tech hotline. If they haven't called (well, it's is actually e-mail) and won't contact the hot line, then you know you need to take your car to a different service department

 

Thank you salman for your input. I totally agree with you that my service department is not following as they should nor do the Ford Customer Service. I cannot say I do not try to make my point every time I go there. Take my notes, print out infos from the forum and my roadside assistance slips. I even got a name of my local Ford Customer Representative who I've told again about my case and give her the date and time I was taking the car in. She was supposedly making sure that things were taking care of. But I think it was only to the extent to the actual recall 13B12 and obviously nobody "looked beyond" the 12v battery. She called me to follow up on "how was my service visit"? Even after I've mentioned about the complaints that the new "fix" is not working for everybody, they all assured me it will fix my problem.... I can tell the way they talk to me they just have no clue what is really going on. And this dealership supposedly is the best around here. I have to say everybody has been super nice and seems like they really want to help, but.... So, I am not even sure if going to another department would change that, but next time I willing to try.

[jes_ma]

I just brought (April 25th, 2014) my 2013 ruby red Ford C Max Hybrid SE into a Massachusetts Ford Dealer for 10,000 mile oil change and recall requiring reprogram.  I was running errands in the car next day in pouring rain and it ran fine.   The next morning (April 27th) I went out to car to start it and there was no power with the key.   None of the gauges lit when door opened, dome light did not work, locks did not work, etc..  I could not even move transmission lever.   It was like battery was totally dead.   A friend came by and actually jump started the vehicle and the engine started.   

 

This has never happened to me in over a year of ownership prior to the Ford Dealer reprogramming last Friday.   It is very disturbing that the vehicle would do this and then not even being able to shift into neutral to move the vehicle.   My original thought was that it would have to have been something with a high power draw to discharge the hybrid battery.   I did run the electric hatch opener with the car parked and used the button to close the hatch.

 

Once started the battery gauge for the hybrid indicated it was over 80% full and have not had any problems in two days of driving.  

[ptjones]

I just brought (April 25th, 2014) my 2013 ruby red Ford C Max Hybrid SE into a Massachusetts Ford Dealer for 10,000 mile oil change and recall requiring reprogram.  I was running errands in the car next day in pouring rain and it ran fine.   The next morning (April 27th) I went out to car to start it and there was no power with the key.   None of the gauges lit when door opened, dome light did not work, locks did not work, etc..  I could not even move transmission lever.   It was like battery was totally dead.   A friend came by and actually jump started the vehicle and the engine started.   

 

This has never happened to me in over a year of ownership prior to the Ford Dealer reprogramming last Friday.   It is very disturbing that the vehicle would do this and then not even being able to shift into neutral to move the vehicle.   My original thought was that it would have to have been something with a high power draw to discharge the hybrid battery.   I did run the electric hatch opener with the car parked and used the button to close the hatch.

 

Once started the battery gauge for the hybrid indicated it was over 80% full and have not had any problems in two days of driving.  

It's the 12v battery that is going dead and not the Hybrid battery. Electronics run off the 12v battery and if it's dead nothing works. I would get trickle charger or jumper battery and then complain to FORD about your problem. :)

 

Paul

[FordService]

Hi everyone,

 

This is just a reminder that I'm here to help if you're having a concern with your battery. Just send me a PM with your name, phone number, VIN, mileage, and dealer info. I'll see how I can help.

 

Ashley

[ceemax71]

I just brought (April 25th, 2014) my 2013 ruby red Ford C Max Hybrid SE into a Massachusetts Ford Dealer for 10,000 mile oil change and recall requiring reprogram.  I was running errands in the car next day in pouring rain and it ran fine.   The next morning (April 27th) I went out to car to start it and there was no power with the key.   None of the gauges lit when door opened, dome light did not work, locks did not work, etc..  I could not even move transmission lever.   It was like battery was totally dead.   A friend came by and actually jump started the vehicle and the engine started.   

 

This has never happened to me in over a year of ownership prior to the Ford Dealer reprogramming last Friday.   It is very disturbing that the vehicle would do this and then not even being able to shift into neutral to move the vehicle.   My original thought was that it would have to have been something with a high power draw to discharge the hybrid battery.   I did run the electric hatch opener with the car parked and used the button to close the hatch.

 

Once started the battery gauge for the hybrid indicated it was over 80% full and have not had any problems in two days of driving.  

It is the 12 volt battery that was dead.  The battery guage on the dash only displays the hybrid high voltage battery (HVB) status.

 

My experience has been that the dealer does not connect a charger to the 12 volt battery during reprogramming (as required per the service bulletin) and it becomes discharged during the reprogramming process. 

It will likely be OK after they recharge the battery.

[wab]

I just brought (April 25th, 2014) my 2013 ruby red Ford C Max Hybrid SE into a Massachusetts Ford Dealer for 10,000 mile oil change and recall requiring reprogram.  I was running errands in the car next day in pouring rain and it ran fine.   The next morning (April 27th) I went out to car to start it and there was no power with the key.   None of the gauges lit when door opened, dome light did not work, locks did not work, etc..  I could not even move transmission lever.   It was like battery was totally dead.   A friend came by and actually jump started the vehicle and the engine started.   

 

This has never happened to me in over a year of ownership prior to the Ford Dealer reprogramming last Friday.   It is very disturbing that the vehicle would do this and then not even being able to shift into neutral to move the vehicle.   My original thought was that it would have to have been something with a high power draw to discharge the hybrid battery.   I did run the electric hatch opener with the car parked and used the button to close the hatch.

 

Once started the battery gauge for the hybrid indicated it was over 80% full and have not had any problems in two days of driving.  

 

 

“I was running errands in the car next day in pouring rain and it ran fine.”

Check this thread, looks like you may need to take your cmax to the dealer.

"SSM 32298 - 2013 C-MAX, Fusion/MKZ Hybrid/Energi - Possible Water Intrusion In Connectors"

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2428-ssm-32298-2013-c-max-fusionmkz-hybridenergi-possible-water-intrusion-in-connectors/

 

 

[mikeg]

Unfortunately, I don't have good news. As I wrote above, our shop did everything they were told to by the Ford Hotline - including replacing the pump. However, our C-Max was found dead this morning. When we tried to get in using the electronic key, we could not - the car was locked, so we had to get in using a manual key. Nothing went on in the car when we tried to start it. Totally dead. Nothing was plugged in to the car via any of the ports. We had Bluetooth audio on for the drive down to a different city - so a long drive (50+ miles) on a free-way at over 70 miles per hour, but Bluetooth audio was not on for the drive back. For now, I would say that driving in the dark is the cause. That’s the only pattern that I noticed between these dead battery occurrences –a late night drive / battery dead next morning – the car is ALWAYS in the auto setting for lights to be on. The time the car showed when it was jump started was 7:53AM – and we got back at 10:30 PM. I am not even taking it to the shop since they wrote back, "I have gotten with my shop foreman and he is getting with Ford to see if there’s anything else. I would say to hold on to vehicle for now, unless it happens again. Once I get any news I will be back in touch with you. If anything else arises please contact me." We are at around 20k miles now..

[ptjones]

Unfortunately, I don't have good news. As I wrote above, our shop did everything they were told to by the Ford Hotline - including replacing the pump. However, our C-Max was found dead this morning. When we tried to get in using the electronic key, we could not - the car was locked, so we had to get in using a manual key. Nothing went on in the car when we tried to start it. Totally dead. Nothing was plugged in to the car via any of the ports. We had Bluetooth audio on for the drive down to a different city - so a long drive (50+ miles) on a free-way at over 70 miles per hour, but Bluetooth audio was not on for the drive back. For now, I would say that driving in the dark is the cause. That’s the only pattern that I noticed between these dead battery occurrences –a late night drive / battery dead next morning – the car is ALWAYS in the auto setting for lights to be on. The time the car showed when it was jump started was 7:53AM – and we got back at 10:30 PM. I am not even taking it to the shop since they wrote back, "I have gotten with my shop foreman and he is getting with Ford to see if there’s anything else. I would say to hold on to vehicle for now, unless it happens again. Once I get any news I will be back in touch with you. If anything else arises please contact me." We are at around 20k miles now..

When you got home did you hear anything running when you shut it off? If you got home late at night there was less time for the battery to run dead you would think. Can you check the battery voltage when you shut it off? And also check it in the morning. Either  the battery is not charging very well or something is drawing a lot of amps. Sure is frustrating, I would put a trickle charger on it to see what happens, if still goes dead then some thing is drawing more than the trickle charger can put out. ;) 

 

Paul

[Zathrus]

@mikeg: I too have had drained battery (twice).  Like ptjones suggests, I monitor 12V battery and use this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EVWDU0/ref=pe_344980_118252440_em_1p_0_ti

 

It monitors both charging voltage and 12V battery. If used in center console 12V outlet, car must be "running" to measure charging voltage. My charging voltage is usually around 14.5 to 15V. With car off, key must be in "accessory mode' to monitor 12V battery in center console 12V outlet. 

 

Rear 12V outlet is directly connected to 12V battery, so if used there, you can continuously monitor 12V battery with car off. That is where I leave mine connected, and check it for low voltages about 10 minutes after turning car off. I think car does some HVB maintenance after turnoff, so you will see 12V fluctuate up and down as much as 10 minutes after car shutoff. If everything shuts off the way it should, you should see 12V slowly rise after 10 minutes. If something is still on 10 minutes after turnoff, you will see voltage steadily dropping. I witnessed this continual voltage drop once upon shutoff...battery voltage was 12.75V at shutoff, but 10 minutes after shutoff, it was down to 12.1V (and still falling). [Note that 12.7V is 100% charged battery, and 12.1V is less than 50% charged battery]. So, I started car, ran for about 10 min to charge, and shutoff. Voltage stayed at 12.72v and did not drop. So, what ever was left on, was reset and turned-off.

 

Since I have used this monitor, I have avoided a drained battery. Of course, this does not fix the problem, but does allow one to somewhat monitor 12V battery. Hope this helps.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Zathrus

[mikeg]

Paul - Agree, all previous dead battery cases were related to the car sitting around for longer than usual (leaving the house in the afternoon instead of right away in the morning). We park in a garage, and so I park the car and leave. There is no way to hear anything from the house. However, I have heard stuff in the back in the past after the car was sitting for a couple of minutes already - but I was told that it was normal - cooling the battery off.

 

Zathrus - Thank you for sharing. I think that I will go for this. I will plug that thing in and try to see the impact of using Bluetooth, and also if it makes a difference how I leave the car - 1) go to park, take the keys out, leave it unlocked. 2) go to park, take the keys out, lock it, 3) go to park, turn the radio and bluetooth audio manually, wait 5 seconds, and then take the keys out..

[wab]

@mikeg: I too have had drained battery (twice).  Like ptjones suggests, I monitor 12V battery and use this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EVWDU0/ref=pe_344980_118252440_em_1p_0_ti

 

It monitors both charging voltage and 12V battery. If used in center console 12V outlet, car must be "running" to measure charging voltage. My charging voltage is usually around 14.5 to 15V. With car off, key must be in "accessory mode' to monitor 12V battery in center console 12V outlet. 

 

Rear 12V outlet is directly connected to 12V battery, so if used there, you can continuously monitor 12V battery with car off. That is where I leave mine connected, and check it for low voltages about 10 minutes after turning car off. I think car does some HVB maintenance after turnoff, so you will see 12V fluctuate up and down as much as 10 minutes after car shutoff. If everything shuts off the way it should, you should see 12V slowly rise after 10 minutes. If something is still on 10 minutes after turnoff, you will see voltage steadily dropping.

 

I witnessed this continual voltage drop once upon shutoff...battery voltage was 12.75V at shutoff, but 10 minutes after shutoff, it was down to 12.1V (and still falling).

[Note that 12.7V is 100% charged battery, and 12.1V is less than 50% charged battery]. So, I started car, ran for about 10 min to charge, and shutoff. Voltage stayed at 12.72v and did not drop. So, what ever was left on, was reset and turned-off.

 

Since I have used this monitor, I have avoided a drained battery. Of course, this does not fix the problem, but does allow one to somewhat monitor 12V battery. Hope this helps.

 

 

I bet there are SOME Ford engineers WISHING they could have been there to observe this REAL WORLD 12v battery going dead!!!

 

[Maxy]

Well, did not have to wait too long. Two weeks after the battery recall check I have a dead battery. Waiting for roadside assistance right now. Getting a little bit annoyed. This is my 6th dead battery event. Tomorrow morning I will be calling Ford customer service to get a new case number yet again!

[Maxy]

How do I send Ashley a PM?

[kostby]

Look for FordService in forum User profiles

[wab]

How do I send Ashley a PM?

 

Here's a short cut

 

Scroll up to post # 1209

Click on the “GENUINE FORD PARTS” icon,

this will take you to the FordService Profile, look on the left middle of the page for

“Send me a message”.

Edited May 16, 2014 by wab

[Maxy]

Thank you guys! Also just another quick note. For the first time, after roadside jump start. My clock and settings were correct. I did not have to reset anything. But interestingly my AC came on at "75*". I know I did not have the AC on this morning when I was driving to work. There was no reason for it.

[salsaguy]

Didnt this happen in the past last year where someone had siad they drove their cmax thru water/puddle and water spashed up and a connector was found to have water intrusion causing a short and thus draining the battery?

 

Also there is a way to move the shift lever to neutral, you have to open a little hidden latch to disengage the xmission lever

check your manual

 

 

I just brought (April 25th, 2014) my 2013 ruby red Ford C Max Hybrid SE into a Massachusetts Ford Dealer for 10,000 mile oil change and recall requiring reprogram.  I was running errands in the car next day in pouring rain and it ran fine.   The next morning (April 27th) I went out to car to start it and there was no power with the key.   None of the gauges lit when door opened, dome light did not work, locks did not work, etc..  I could not even move transmission lever.   It was like battery was totally dead.   A friend came by and actually jump started the vehicle and the engine started.   

 

[mikols]

Purchased a C-max SEL(302a)  2013 on April 7 of 2014 (built on Nov 24, 3013).  Mon, May 12, went out to start car and everything was dead.  Called Ford and got a jump start.   Called the dealer I got it from and they said to get it in to service ASAP to have it checked out.  Service said they could get the battery to fail for  them also and they ordered a new battery.   Did not have one in stock and  will have it installed on Monday.

 

Have had a problem with the radio not coming on using the dash button, since the car was new.  This usually happens first time I use the car for that day.  Have to go through voice command to get it to work.  Many times after that, on same trip, the dash button  might work.  The Service manager said the radio worked fine for him.   This is because I had had it on when I drove there.  Service does not seem to believe about the radio unless he can get it to not work also.   When I drive it in to get a new battery, I will be sure to not turn the radio on so they can become believers.  I know this is very minor, but wonder if it could be connected to the battery problem, somehow. 

 

Anyway after reading all these posts about the battery problem, I am feeling mighty discouraged about the battery being the 'final" fix.  Has anyone had the battery problem fixed with just a change of batteries?  

 

My husband and I are in our 70's and not "handy" with cars, so all the information from these posts has helped big time.

[wab]

Greetings and Welcome

 

 SEL’s don’t seem to have very many battery problems.

Have you seen and voted on this POLL?

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1294-for-those-who-have-had-12v-battery-problems/page-10?hl=poll& 

 

Defective batteries do happen, sometimes from day 1.

A friend works for GM, one of his jobs (several yrs ago) was to replace the dead batteries that wouldn’t even start the car to drive it off the assembly line.

[BobJustBob]

Hi Mikols,

 

Sorry to hear about your dead battery.  And so soon after you purchased your C-Max.  Ouch!

 

I am one of those unfortunate C-Max owners who has suffered multiple dead batteries.  My advice to you is to notify Ford about each instance of a dead battery.  Open a ticket with Ford Customer Service at the corporate headquarters (their number is in you owner's manual).  It is only by keeping the pressure on Ford that this problem will be fixed.