plus 3 golfer

Yes, the old news is BT. :) I can't find anything on when C-Max production will end. Ford's proposed "Model E" will be available in 2020 as a full electric SUV. Given the poor sales of the C-Max, I doubt Ford will continue its production too much longer. I will seriously consider buying a used, low mileage C-Max (maybe even an Energi). IMO, they will be "dirt cheap" when the Model E arrives. "Automotive News EuropeJanuary 3, 2017 17:17 CET DETROIT -- Ford Motor will cancel its $1.6 billion assembly plant in Mexico, instead investing $700 million in the U.S. to bring to market 13 electrified vehicles. The plans include an F-150 hybrid pickup, a Mustang hybrid and a full electric SUV with a 300-mile (480 km) range. The SUV will launch in 2020 and will be sold in North America, Europe and Asia. It will be built south of Detroit in Flat Rock, Michigan. Ford is expected to call the SUV the Model E. Tesla CEO Elon Musk wanted to use the Model E name for the Model 3, but he was unable to secure the naming rights from Ford, which has owned the patent for some time." http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/news/economy/ford-700-jobs-trump/index.html?iid=EL http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170103/COPY/301069999/ford-will-build-electrified-vehicles-in-u.s.-after-canceling-mexico http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/17/ford-goes-forward-with-plans-to-build-plants-in-mexico-after-all/ http://www.mexico-now.com/index.php/article/1678-ford-plant-in-irapuato-construction-90-complete

Here's prices for CR2032 in local Walmart and online at BatteryPlus. Pay about double at BatteryPlus but they install free in your two FOBs. Walmart Energizer two pack = $4.37 BatteryPlus Rayovac two pack = $7.99

raadsel, have you looked at the Niro torque and hp curves in your link above in detail? It looks "fishy". At 1000 rpm the Niro combined torque is shown to be 195 ftlb or 264 nm from 1000 to 4000 rpm. The electric motor specs from Kia shows only 125 ft -lb (169 nm) of torque. So, it's highly likely that the the motor torque is constant 125 ft lb from 1000 rpm to 4000 rpm (this would be typical for an induction motor). The curve at 1000 rpm then should likely start at around 168 nm not 264 nm as shown in the curve. The Niro curve should then likely ramp up to 264 nm at 4000 rpm because of ICE torque be added to the traction motor torque as rpm increases. I saw this curve prior when looking at the C-Max curve and didn't post it because I believe it is in error. If the Niro is quicker or the same as the C-Max at low speeds up to 30 mph as you believe (is there any data on this?), it's likely because it's significanatly lighter than the C-Max. I agree that the ICE torque in the C-Max vs the Niro will likely allow the C-Max to accelerate faster than the Niro at higher speeds. The problem with curves from this linked sight is that the curves are derived from manufacturers' specs which is put into a software program to simulate the curves. This certainly can lead to erroneous curves.

The reason likely relates to the fact that the C-Max eCVT allows ICE to operate at virtually peak torque throughout the 0-60 mph run. With the dual clutch transmission on the Niro, ICE rpm will vary with speed and the gear the car is in. This means that ICE in the Niro only develops peak torque for a significantly less amount of time during the run. Here's a software developed curve of the C-Max torque and hp. So, on take off in the C-Max, ICE can virtually instantaneously ramp up to the 4000 rpm (peak torque) whereas the Niro takes time maybe a second or two to reach its peak torque upon it's initial acceleration. Also, once the Niro reaches around peak torque, the sport mode algorithm should upshift resulting in a lower torque than peak. This upshift would be repeated through all gears. So, the Niro apparently, even though it's peak torque is greater than the C-Max, accelerates slower in the 0-60 mph run.

That's what YouTube is for. :) I use a sharp knife and pry the case open starting on a side where the key ring attaches (narrowest part of case). You have to be somewhate careful and work down around the sides of the case until it pops off. Snap the case back on starting at the bottom (widest part of fob). If you don't want to DIY, go to a Batteries Plus store and they will probably charge double the cost for a battery (IIRC CR2032) at Walmart but replace it for you at "no charge".

I believe only ICE. Try this. Pull fuse 22 out in the rear junction box. Open up the hatch, lift up the lid on the back part of the deck. On the left wall is a cover. Remove cover for access to the the rear junction box. You may have to look in the manual to see which fuse is 22 but the fuses should be numbered. The DMCMC is now disabled. Drive the car over the same course and see if you notice and difference in ICE noise level with and without Fuse 22. Also, make sure the audio system is off for comparative purposes.

I think you mean 2012? I changed my fob battery over 2 years ago at the same time I put new a new battery in an fob for my other car even though I had no issues with the C-Max. Are you getting the message "no key detected"? or something else when you say "getting hard to start"?

It will be interesting when CR gets enough miles on it to do its FE tests. :) Here is the methodology that CR currently uses for its FE tests. "We perform our own fuel-economy tests, independent of the government's often-quoted EPA figures and the manufacturers' claims. Using a precise fuel-flow measuring device spliced into the fuel line, we run two separate circuits. One is on a public highway at a steady 65 mph. That course is run in both directions to counteract any terrain and wind effects. A second is a simulated urban/suburban-driving test done at our track. It consists of predetermined acceleration, and deceleration rates, as well as idle time. Consumer Reports' overall fuel-economy numbers are derived from those fuel consumption tests."CR I'm fairly sure that their original test of 2013 C-Max in addition to the two tests above also used a 150 mile open road test and then used three tests to get an overall FE. CR nolonger does the 150 mile test which used "several drivers taking turns around a 30-mile loop of public roads that include a highway section, secondary roads, and rural byways. CR's overall fuel-economy numbers are derived from those three fuel consumption tests."

Not that I'm aware of but perhaps, some work was done on your car which required PMI (see below) which wasn't performed. "Noise Cancellation Microphones Three headliner-mounted active noise control microphones (2 front and 1 rear) measure the amplitude and phase of the engine noise inside the passenger compartment. The monitored sound is converted into analog signals by the microphones, and sent to the DACMC . "The DACMC receives engine rotation speed data and active noise control microphone input signals and calculates the targeted frequency needed to cancel engine noise within the passenger compartment. The DACMC outputs the engine noise cancellation frequency to all audio system speakers as fluctuating AC voltage." "DACMC The DACMC is a digital signal processor that consists of an internal analog/digital converter, amplifier, and tone generator.... The DACMC operates with the ignition in RUN, ACC, or OFF. Active noise control functions only operate with the ignition in RUN. The DACMC receives audio signals from the ACM when audio is being played. ... The DACMC amplifies these signals and sends them to all of the audio system speakers as fluctuating AC voltage. If the engine is running and the audio system is in use, the DACMC mixes the engine noise cancellation frequency signal with the audio signals from the ACM . The mixed audio signals are then sent to all of the speakers as fluctuating AC voltage. The DACMC requires Programmable Module Installation (PMI) when it is replaced."

korax 234, since you already have a scanner and perhaps the connection device is an ELM327, you might want to invest in the ForScan App. Even if you have to buy an ELM 327, total cost will be less the $30. IMO, ForScan is a must for a car enthusist.

If you are coasting in gear down hill (assume ICE is in closed loop operation), then ICE and the traction motor are not being used for propulsion by definition and are off no mater what the speed. As soon as either the traction motor or ICE supplies power for propulsion the car is no longer coasting. The traction motor can supply propulsion by itself up to a speed of 85 mph depending on load requirements. ICE may need to startup if the traction motor can't meet load requirements. When the EV limit was 62 mph, ICE would always startup with speed greater than 62 mph when not coasting (the traction motor always spins proportionately to the speed of the vehicle). Most have seen the actual limit slightly higher than the 62 mph. I could stay in EV mode up to about 66 mph when the limit was 62 mph. IIRC, according to Ford the change from 62 to 85 mph was done because consumers wanted to see their car in EV mode more often. IIRC, Ford never touted this as a fuel savings change. Having said this, a hypermiler now has another tool to use (EV only speed up to 85 mph) and perhaps by learning how to best use this tool, the hypermiler can increase their FE above 62 mph.

Thanks homestead. I also use the Motorcraft filter and will pick up a filter and a 5 qt jug of Mobil 1 today at Walmart. Looks like the Motorcraft FL-910S is $3.97 at Wamart.

That's very likely based on the EU fuel economy testing which is different than the EPA testing and likely results in higher estimates.

It wouldn't surprise me if your Cd is under 0.27. When I ran coast down tests with / without grille covers, I estimated a drop in Cd to 0.279 using grille covers. IIRC, this 7% reduction in Cd from 0.30 at highway speeds should result in a reduction of 3 - 5 % in RLHP. All you need to do is to run some coast down tests but it requires about a mile of flat road to accelerate to around 70 mph, coast down in N to around 35-40 mph and repeat in the opposite direction over the same part of the road. Run tests multiple times with and without grille covers and wheel covers while recording speed vs time via the OBDII port with an APP like ForScan. Load data into Excel and analyze. :)

The most significant factors affecting the Niro's FE over the C-Max FE are likely CdA and weight not how the hybrids operate. So, I would assume that drivers (no matter what their driving style) will get better FE in the Niro than a C-Max. Below is a table showing the weight and estimated CdA difference of the C-Max and Niro. Based on previous analysis of coast down data and EPA RLHP coefficients, the Niro EPA ratings seems to be consistent with the C-Max EPA ratings given that the C-Max is significantly heavier and has a significantly higher CdA.

FYI, I had some time to look at the Service manual. "Brake Pedal Position (BPP) SwitchThe BPP switch is a normally open switch that, when closed, sends a signal to the PCM when the brake pedal is applied. The PCM strategy uses this signal input to aid the PCM in determining the correct function and operation of the vehicle cruise control, the electronic throttle control (ETC), and the transmission and regenerative braking systems. The BPP switch is hardwired to the PCM and supplies positive battery voltage when the brake pedal is applied. When the brake pedal is released, the BPP switch opens and no battery voltage input is sent to the PCM." "Brake Pedal Travel Sensor The brake pedal travel sensor (also known as the brake pedal angle sensor) is a Hall-Effect device used by the ABS module to monitor the speed of application and the direction of travel of the brake pedal. The sensor contains 2 opposing sensors that send the information directly to the ABS module. Four circuits connect the brake pedal travel sensor to the ABS module; one circuit is for the 5 volt sensor supply, one circuit is for sensor ground and the other 2 circuits are for sensor output. The sensor supplies a PWM output to the ABS module." The Ready to Drive is initiated by the TCM. "Power Up SequenceThe TCM conducts a power up sequence every time the ignition is turned from the OFF to the START position, if the gear selector is in PARK or NEUTRAL. During the power up sequence the TCM: initializes and begins controller area network (CAN) communications with the PCM and the BECM.requests the BECM to close the high voltage contactors.illuminates the green ready indicator indicating the vehicle is ready to drive in electric, gasoline, or a combination of electric and gasoline modes.if required, requests the PCM to start the internal combustion engine. The internal combustion engine will not start if the gear selector is in NEUTRAL. The internal combustion engine starts if it is required for cabin heating, windshield defrost or the outside temperatures are low. The internal combustion engine also starts if the high voltage battery charge is low.If a concern is detected during the power up sequence, the TCM may initiate LOS mode and store a DTC."

Since the ready message doesn't come on but the car turns "on" (like accessory mode with keyed ignition), I believe you should get a message to "push brake" to start the car if the brake pedal sensor would be malfunctioning (same message one gets when the brake pedal is not pushed). Do you get any messages? If not, then maybe (although I don't know the algorithm behind the "ready to drive"), the IPC is not receiving appropriate data from other modules over the CAN to illuminate the ready to drive since the issue might be data / components associated with other modules like the TCM. Also, I don't recall anyone reporting that their brake pedal sensor failed. Maybe you can get a loaner from Ford and leave your car at the dealer and have them drive it for several days to duplicate the problem as if the issue happens about 1/3 of the time, then it should happen in several days of the dealer driving the car.

Apparently, you don't know how to google. ;) Follow the links in this link for plugins. Hybrid vehicle tax credits expired years ago.

I used 3M Dual lock fasteners to attach sunscreen material to aluminum window frames with no issues for over 3 years in Phoenix. You need the VHB adhesive. I only ran my grill covers in Phoenix for 4-5 months or so a year with no issues. Also, obviously the tape and one part of the tab remained on the car year round. http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/All-3M-Products/Tapes-Adhesives/Industrial-Tapes-and-Adhesives/Double-Sided-Bonding-Tapes/3M-VHB-Tapes/?N=5002385+8710676+8710815+8710960+8711017+8713604+3294857497&rt=r3 http://www.steambrite.com/solar-screens-frameless-scotch-brand-black-p-12550.html http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/3546-velcro-adhesive-problems-with-grill-covers/?do=findComment&comment=40579

Use 3M 5952 tape if the velcro is not thick enough to raise the velcro to attach velcro firmly. If that doesn't work, replace the velcro with 3M dual lock tabs.

From the manual, the Instrument Panel Cluster module gets hardwired data from the shift selector. So, there would likely be no DTC (and no stored DTCs) if the "no move" issue is related to the shifter or cable to the transmission. I wonder if ICE will start when the "no move" condition occurs. If you push and hold the accelerator to the floor, put your foot on the brake and push the start button, ICE will start. If ICE doesn't start, something is likely wrong with the IPC and perhaps the PCM is not getting proper data from the IPC and not allowing the TCM to "move" the car even though it is shifted to D. You would have to do this every time you start the car to see if ICE starts. If ICE starts, shift to D and see if the car moves every time you start ICE. If ICE doesn't start, also shift to D and see if the car moves. IMO, a more likely cause is something in the shifter to the transmission. The cable that runs from the shifter to the transmission can be adjusted. One other thing to try is to shift to L from D when the no move condition occurs. Perhaps the car will now move and thus would likely indicate the issue is in the shifter / cable system.

So, the ready to drive message is lit on the dash but the car won't move when shifted to D and nothing changes on the dash displays? If yes, then I'd say the issue is with the gear shift mechanism / sensors. I'll see what I can find in the service manual as to logic / hardware. Are you aware of ForScan? You can monitor real time data and likely be able to see something abnormal when the issue occurs which should point to the potential issue. A smartphone and about $25 for an ELM327 OBDII interface module and ForScan App is IMO worth it.

If you look on Kia.com, the Touring model weighs the most - about 170 pounds more than the base model. The Touring has 18 inch rims and 225 tires while the base has 16 inch rims and 205 tires. Hence, this likely accounts for the most of the decrease in FE of the Touring vs Base. Also, the Touring is slightly taller (0.4 inches) than the base due to roof rails which the Base doesn't have. So, don't know where the 600 pounds comes from. Also, when comparing the height and width of the C-Max (63.8" tall and 72 " wide, excluding mirrors) with the Niro at 60.4 / 60.8 " tall and 71.1 " wide (assume excluding mirrors), the frontal area of the Niro is likely about 8% less than the C-Max. So, it's easy to see why the Niro with about 3% less Cd (0.29 Cd vs 0.30 for the C-Max), 8% less frontal area than the C-Max, and weighing about 534 pounds less than the C-Max, the Niro is rated at 52/49 MPG vs 42/38 for the C-Max.

So, you are still shown as current with V3.6 on Ford's website? My guess is the dealer still won't upgrade as your car is up to date with V3.6. Why should we have to convince the dealer we are entitled to V3.8. I don't understand why according to Shay Ford pulled the update because of install issues and can't fix the issue / reinstate the V3.8 update on their website. I didn't have any issues updating the software myself using V3.8 software I got in the link posted in the other thread. It still makes no sense other than by not listing V3.8 update on Ford's site for those with V3.6, Ford will likely save money by not having the dealer do as many installs and fix failed install by owners. In a few more years, we won't be entitled to the V3.8 update as IIRC, 12M02 extended the warranty for 5 years (I assume from the 3 / 36 B2B warranty).

Thank you for the update. Yes, I knew I could go to the dealer and I also knew that v3.8 came out not because Ford notified me but because of this forum. But that still begs the question as to how would we ever know that v3,8 was available under 12m02? As I said before, most owners likely do not visit forums and would likely never know that that were running an outdated version rather than v3.8. ;)