plus 3 golfer

On the internet. ;) Here's the pdf for MY 2013. SEL & C-MAX Energi Available Equipment Groups Equipment Group 301A – Voice-activated Navigation System + Audio System from Sony® with 9 speakers + HD Radio™ Technology Equipment Group 302A – Includes all content of 301A + power liftgate with foot-activated feature + rear view camera Equipment Group 303A – Includes all content of 301A and 302A + active park assist + Forward Sensing System (Parking Technology Package)

Version 3.8 came out about one year ago but like many owners, Ford sites don't show this update as available for their vehicle. See this post and thread. http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/5475-mft-update-to-v38-has-been-released/?p=63495 I've since updated to 3.8 as described in the thread.

Check Horn Fuses (F20 and F24) and Horn Relay (R2) in the fuse box under the hood. C131 is the 2 pin connector for the horn located on the passenger side front. You'll need to remove the front lower cover (looks like 6 push pins and 7 screws). Check horn by applying 12 V to horn directly. If above okay, spend less than $30 for an OBDII ELM327 module and the ForScan App and scan modules for DTCs. There are many for the Horn which should help isolate the issue from the horn switch, clockspring, BCM, relay, and to the horn itself.

I leave my ELM 327 plugged in most of the time. I don't think your OBDLink is the cause of your issue. Specs say battery saver mode is 2 mA which is not enough drain to cause an issue. Even if it the Link didn't shut down 62 mA normal load should not cause an issue for many days of not starting your carunless your battery is "weak / failing" . For example, 100 hours of drain would only be around 6.2 Ah lost. Did you have the battery tested? Ford or any battery shop should test it for no charge. Ford replaced my 12 V battery for IIRC about $138 total.

So, since you didn't mention the dash going dark, I'm assuming you had 12 V power. I'd be somewhat concerned as you apparently didn't get a warning message. I don't recall anyone having this happen to them. If "D" went dark and the battery symbol went to zero and the 12 V system apparently was up, it may be an issue with the SOBDMC (the hybrid power control module) or the BECM (battery electric control module). Unless you want to pay the dealer $100 or so for a diagnostic scan, isn't it time to invest in the ForScan App so you can scan these and other modules as I indicated to you when you ask about the PID for the transmission fluid temperature in another thread. :) There may be DTC stored as maybe a module lost power, couldn't communicate with other modules and so forth.

I finally found the article I read years ago on using GPS data to control the power train. Here's the link. In case the link gets broken, I copied and pasted it below. I think it is clear that the future goal is to use location data to employ fuel savings techniques and enhance safety. I highlighted the Ford comments and other salient points in red.

Does it help to switch between the EV later, EV now and EV auto modes while driving to essentially extend EV range by trying to use ICE more at perhaps at higher speeds (higher power requirements) and save EV for lower speeds (lower power requirements) and so forth? I doubt Ford uses different parts of the HVB for HEV operation and a different part for EV operation to spread the load around. That's counter to operating batteries in general when cycling but it could be done. It seems that would highly complicate equalizing the charge on the individual cells which is one of the most important functions for battery long life - making sure all cells are balanced and have an equal charge. I would envision one battery for control operations and that the control algorithm simply apportions a slice of the entire HVB to Hybrid operation based on the control mode (EV later, now, and auto) as the HVB is being discharged. The slice would then not be a fixed portion of the HVB but in essence "move" depending on the SOC. Of course once one depletes the HVB near it's lower limit, the bottom portion of the HVB would then be operated just like the Hybrid. One more point on this thread in general to get back on topic of the thread. If I calculate the savings from using EV+ vs not using EV plus for Energi owners, it seems it would likely be less than a $10 bill annually. Of course it is highly dependent on electricity vs gas prices. But the amount of gas that would be saved for the last 1/2 mile or so say 365 times a year is not much (maybe 4-5 gallons) and the amount of electricity used (maybe 50 kWh) make the difference rather insignificant in the operation of EV+. Also, I doubt for Hybrid owners that use EV+ saves much fuel, if any, as fuel is the only source of energy. ICE must run on cold startup to reach the operating temperature for closed loop operation anyways. Again I'll bet the fuel saved, if any, is less than a $10 a year. IMO, EV+ as it currently exists is marketing hype by Ford. Now expand EV+ for say the last 5 miles with many intermediate locations along the route including the controls to optimize the use of EV and ICE over those last 5 miles, and one may achieve meaningful economic benefits. We can argue as to whether use of EV+ extends the life of the HVB, but IMO the real benefit of the EV+ algorithm is yet to come.

Yes, same experiences. It also happens in rain when going over slick surfaces like metal or those white, raised crsoss walk surfaces. I believe it is normal abs engagement during regerative braking when a tire loses traction.

Let's just say it's quicker than a Prius! :) My 2009 TDI Jetta and 2008 Nissan Rogue are virtually the same as the C-Max. Seven seconds is pretty quick. The C-Max is likely quicker up to 30 mph or so than a lot of cars with the same or better 0-60 times but after that it's okay but not a rocket ship. Here's a link for 0-60 times. Energi Plug-In Hybrid Wagon 7.9 sec 16.1 sec @ 88 mph Car and Driver Energi Plug-In Hybrid Wagon (Electric Only) 16.1 sec 20.2 sec @ 65 mph Car and Driver Energi Plug-In Hybrid Wagon 8.5 sec 16.7 sec @ 87 mph Motor Week Hybrid SEL Wagon 8.8 sec 16.7 sec @ 86 mph Car and Driver Hybrid SEL Wagon 8.1 sec 16.2 sec @ 86.8 mph Motor Trend Hybrid SEL Wagon 8.1 sec 16.2 sec @ 88.3 mph Motor Trend

I'm guessing the power control algorithm for the traction motor will provide a straight line maximum torque from zero up to several 1000 rpm of the traction motor (motor rpm is around 9500 - 10,000 rpm at IIRC around 75 mph). Whether that's up to 30 mph or something lower or higher I don't know. With ForScan one should be able to record data on full throttle acceleration from stop and observe what happens. But I'm fairly sure that after that speed is reached, the motor torque will not be maximum but decline with speed. I believe the HP may be held constant after that point and thus torque will be reduced. It may be to prevent damage to the motor or gears / bearings at high rpm, high power or perhaps simply because it will discharge the HVB very quickly. At higher speeds when cruising in EV, ICE can be virtually instantaneously fueled to it's maximum torque under full throttle acceleration since a holding torque can be applied to the generator very quickly ramping up ICE. When I watch ForScan data, the transferring of load from the traction motor to ICE by stopping the generator / motor from spinning happens in milliseconds. EV assist can supply additional torque. I have continually searched for a torque curve for the C-Max traction motor vs speed and but have yet to find one. You're seeing how I believe the torque control operates in the C-Max powersplit system. Do you use grille blocks? I find that grille blocks really help FE in the winter to warm up the engine and to keep it at a higher operating temperature. So, once ICE is up to operating temp, FE isn't that bad for longer trips except for the density of air being higher when colder than warmer and thus increasing aero drag.

I wonder also as IIRC you mentioned this in another thread. So, maybe as the battery ages and the nominal storage capacity declines, Ford reduces the operating range in kWh but in displaying the data for the battery symbol still uses the 1.4 kWh initial nominal range. For example, if the storage drops 5%, the top end of the nominal operating range drops 5% but the bottom of the range (in kWh) probably stays the same (don't want to drop below the knee of the curve). So, the battery would fill quicker. Also, then if the displayed battery symbol still used the 1.4 kWh in the conversion from actual SOC to the displayed, one would then see the battery symbol show full at a lower %. IIRC, I had about 45 - 55 k miles on my car when I recorded the data and got the 65%. hannahWCU logged the data below where SOC is the actual and SoC is the battery displayed. I wonder how many miles hannahWCU had on his car when the data was observed around May 2013. Note that hannahWCU data if plotted on my graph would be to the right of my data. The slope he gets is about 38%. It would be interesting to see how your car compares to hannahWCU's data as you have significantly more miles. When SoC reads 100 - SOC reads 69.7 When SoC reads 80 - SOC reads 62.1 When SoC reads 70 - SOC reads 58.0 When SoC reads 50 - SOC reads 50.4 When SoC reads 30 - SOC reads 42.7

My recording of data shows 65% SOC = full on the battery symbol (see graph above).

livesmith, on 17 Aug 2016 - 10:05 AM, said: Please provide documentation that Ford's intent is to do that. ICE not running (or ICE running less at that time is an outcome) not the rationale for developing EV+. Second, Ford would not implement the algorithm for EV+ if it harmed the HVB. Lowering the SOC of the HVB and cycles is a benefit. Because consumers want to see more EV use (Ford press releases), it made sense to Ford to implement the algorithm in EV+. I posted the press releases from Ford before on EV+. Ford has a patent on the EV+ algorithm. Ford's intent is to demonstrate that Ford can use a predictive algorithm to control the powertrain using small amounts of data storage and GPS. I see this as a way in future vehicles to increase the hybrid powertrain efficiency while driving by altering the use of EV and ICE knowing what's ahead. By being able to identify and predict load requirement as we drive, the software can better optimize the storing and use of energy in the HVB. Is it better to use ICE or the HVB to climb a hill - it likely depends on what's on the other side of the hill. There's no question that long term storage is better at 40 % than 70%. But also, charging to 70% vs say charging to 50% will shorten the cycle life of Li-Ion batteries. The cycle life of Li-Ion batteries increase if the maximum charge level of the cell is lower. So, if EV+ reduces potential higher SOC levels, cycle life will be increased. For me, that might be 3 - 6 reduced higher SOC levels a day. This makes a lot more sense than what Livesmith and Smiling Jack believe - that EV+ is used so ICE doesn't have to run. Also, in normal driving it's not likely one will get to 70% SOC. Generally, one needs to go down a longer steeper hill to get to 70%. What I observe, is that SOC above around 57% occurs during long stretches of regenerative braking. Also, the elevation change to your EV+ location and the SOC before reaching the initiation of EV+, can significantly affect SOC at the EV+ location. My SOC going to the YMCA (an EV+ location) is downhill for the last mile. So my SOC is always 55 - 60% when I arrive at the Y and I'm generally in EV mode the entire last mile. Going home, EV+ triggers over one mile (street-wise) from my home which is about 0.35 miles (the typical distance that EV+ triggers as the crow flies). This last mile is about 100 feet uphill. So, my SOC at home is generally below 40% and sometimes ICE comes on during the last 200 feet up my steep drive way. Perhaps in future hybrids, the powertrain control algorithm will know that my last my mile to the Y is downhill and alter the use of ICE and HVB prior to that last mile to get my SOC down from the 55-60% to below 50%.

Here's the Key Life graph and the graph on HVB SOC vs Displayed SOC on the Battery Symbol. So, your 25% displayed SOC is really 36 % SOC of the HVB. h.

A lot of this has been discussed before. In summary, the HVB has a nominal storage capacity of 1.4 kWh. The operating capacity is limited to around 30% - 70% of the 1.4 kWh. Ford studies (there's a key life graph) supports a very long life. The bottom line is given this operating range, the battery should last (stay above 80% storage capacity IIRC) for a few 100k miles. Yes, there are studies on LI-Ion batteries where somewhere around a 50% charge is ideal for storage. The charge on my HVB varies by EV+ location from around 55+ SOC to 40-%. Also, the displayed battery symbol does not represent the SOC of the battery, but the SOC based on operating range.

What work wouldn't they do??? Like stevedebi says there's a disconnect on the Hybrid also. See this link and page 12 for the disconnect for the Hybrid.

If you look at your Climate Control screen you'll see that upon startup the compressor motor will likely run between 4-5 kW when the temp is high. In Phoenix, at 105 F (but will lower humidity than Houston), I'd have to drive at least one mile before the load would drop to maybe 1.5 - 2 kW eventually settling down to around 400 Watts or so. I'm sure that removing more water from the more humid air would increase the total load and energy usage on the HVAC in Houston over Phoenix. At 4-5 kW, the compressor motor IIRC spins at about 3500 rpm. At 400 watts or so, the rpm drops to IIRC around 950 rpm. Bottom line is the HVAC load at slower speeds, shorter distances in hot / humid climates will significantly affect FE absent the HVAC load. Not much you can do but shut off the AC and roll the windows down. Also, I just completed a 3900 mile round trip from TN to Phoenix. My overall average was 38.7 mpg. My average moving time speed per Garmin was 73 mpg. From Pnoenix through Texas on I40, I ran with cruise at 78-79 mpg (75 MPH speed limit). The rest of the trip was with cruise at 73-75 mpg (70 mph speed limit). Of course there were cities like Albuquerque, Amarillo, OK City, and so forth that the speed were less. To get on topic, it's trips like this that pull my overall FE down to around 41 mpg. At least half my 74 k miles on my car are with such trips. Now if you want to increase FE on long road trips, try drafting. I did on recent trip for about 20 miles. Here's the results of drafting behind a semi vs not drafting on I40 between Memphis, TN and Jackson, Tn. The C-Max is a 47 mpg car on the highway at 72 mph. ;) Also, my results virtually mirror MythBuster results on drafting.

Supposedly, "Ford plans to launch a corresponding customer satisfaction program for vehicles outside the scope of this recall. For example, if a vehicle exhibits a broken door latch, Ford will provide a one-time replacement at no charge for the life of the vehicle." per the consumer reports link above. Also, my car spent about 34 months in the Phoenix area and now over 9 months in TN. Like you say "how much heat is too much". I assume Ford has access to where the vehicles were titled and of course their own service records. So, we'll see if my 34 months is enough time in AZ to get the letter.

APIM module has altitude. A Smartphone and around $25 or less for an ELM327 and APP gets you altitude and the ability to access DTCs and other data. ForScan.org

Have you changed the battery in the key FOB? Is the key FOB in your pocket behind a smartphone or set of keys?

The issue is when the problem has already been brought to Ford's attention (by dealer) AND Ford has denied the claim, the rep is likely not going to give "a little guidance" as was requested by the OP. The rep though should get back to the OP but will likely simply say your issue is already in our system and you can follow the procedures in the limited new car warranty document (see below). That's likely all the rep can say. It appears the OP has "completed" the first three items show below in Ford's warranty document. The issue now is well above the reps pay grade since the OP received the e-mail. The ball is now in the OP hands. The guidance I'd give is to seek legal advice if the OP is not comfortable in presenting his warranty claim denial in arbitration. It sounds like that is the direction Ford wants to go. It wouldn't surprise me if Ford came back with a "good will" reduction in the cost to fix to avoid arbitration. We really don't know what the dealer "found" and the only way to find out now is likely in arbitration first and law suit as a last resort. Your satisfaction is our #1 goal. If you have any questions or concerns, orare unsatisfied with the service you are receiving, follow these steps:

LOL, I wouldn't expect anything more. No different than the latest Sync update (IIRC, Oct. - Nov. 2015) not showing up on the Ford Owner's website for many of our C-Maxes. Quite frankly, they likely are not permitted to respond to any controversial subjects / requests as it's above their pay grade. Silence is better than telling "everyone" they can't help in the matter. ;) IMO, the Ford rep is just like a CS rep on the phone. The rep is not on our side although IMO, many here might believe that they are truly here to represent "us".

I removed the cover and stored it in the glove box. Thus, It's very easy then to plug in and remove the ELM 327 from that port. There is a second port that is way under the driver's side dash (no cover) but difficult to get to.