plus 3 golfer

Thanks, your data is what I was afraid of. I just checked mine. The car was driven less than 10 miles by my wife (2 trips) and then left off for about 2 hours. From now on, I'm going to measure the actual voltage using the BCM data point. It should be slightly higher than the posts under the hood. So, early this morning before any trips, SOC read 48% and battery voltage under hood was 12.34 V. So, about 1 pm today, I measured the following in the BCM. Car put in ACC Mode:and Car is charging slightly V=12.90; I= +1.12 A; SOC=24% Car then turned on and after 2 minutes of charging: V=14.3; I = +13.06 A; SOC=26% (both volts and current were falling with time. I saw 14.5 volts for several seconds.) Car turned off and battery began discharging: V=13.4; I = - 1X.XX and falling quickly to state below Car Off after about 2- 3 minutes of discharging: V=12.65; I= - 5.44 A; SOC=26% Car Off (ForScan won't connect) about 5+ minutes V=12.35 at battery posts under hood since I can't measure BCM It will be interesting to see how high the SOC will get in our batteries. I have a feeling that because my battery age is thought to be so high that the algorithms are adjusting the charging voltage / current assuming my capacity is a lot less than it actually is. I need to continue to monitor and think about this and perhaps record the data. I'm beginning to believe that since my actual losses with the 2+ year old battery is significatly less than the accumulated losses after 1708 days used to establish charging parameters, my battery is being consistanly under charged. In other words, the algorithm believes that a SOC near say between 24% - 50% represents a "good" charge on a 1708 day old battery service. But my battery is less than 800 days old. So, the issue I have is how can I get Ford to make any adjustments??? and at no cost to me??? - probably won't ever happen. Second, even when ForScan is done Beta testing their Windows version and makes the version final, I likely will be able to reset the battery monitor as Ford could do. The reset will likely not work since the losses will likely be zeroed out and coulomb counting will start over. Either way my battery will likely fail sooner than it should -- undercharging as I suspect currently or likely overcharge if I reset the battery monitor. :ford: :mademyday:

I looked at the BCM data related to the 12 V Battery. The attachment shows the data. What is bothersome is that my battery age is shown as 1708 days or basically the same age as the car even though the battery was replaced about 2 years ago. Secondly, the SOC shows at 32%. I searched and found on the fusion hybrid forum a pic showing 98% SOC, IIRC. When I first started watching this display, the SOC was 20% climbing to 32% after about 75 minutes of driving. The charge current shown was around 1.8 A at 20% SOC and the desired charge voltage was at 14.4 V. As the SOC increased to 32%, the current decreased to about 0.75 A. The desired voltage declined to 14.2 V. It certainly looks like my battery monitor was not reset when my battery was replaced. The reason for the 20% SOC might be that in the last week we didn't make any long trips. We will traveling over labor day quite a distance so I'll monitor this data. It would be great if others with ForScan can check their battery data. I forgot to mention that I used my Android smartphone and then a Beta version of ForScan for Windows to watch the data. I noted in the Beta version that it has several service procedures listed including Resetting the Battery Monitor and PATS programming of additional keys. I don't believe these are working in the Beta version as nothing happened when I selected the Battery Reset. I measured the SOC this morning and it was 47%. Battery voltage was 12.34 V. So, the numbers are virtually the same as indicated in the graph below.

I haven't seen it in the manual. If I understand correctly, what is being reset is the loss of 12 V battery capacity over time. So, the algorithm could monitor voltage vs time. There will always be up to about 50 mA draw when undisturbed (car off). The algorithm after 8 hours would check that discharge curve against the discharge curve of a new battery (hence the reason for a new battery being the same Ah capacity as the old). If the curves "match" (battery voltage essentially the same after 8 hours), one could assume that the battery was replaced and reset the battery loss. Seems to make sense although I'm not a battery expert. :)

Yes, the monitoring of the C-Max 12 V battery needs reset when a new battery is installed. I posted the following before from the service manual: "The Battery Monitoring Sensor continuously monitors the condition and the state of charge of the 12V battery and provides the BCM with this information. The BatteryMonitoring Sensor also estimates losses in the battery capacity over time. The Battery Monitoring Sensor should only be reset when the battery is replaced. It is urgently recommended that the replacement battery has the exact same specification as the original battery. If it does not, the accuracy of the Battery Monitoring Sensor outputs will be compromised. The Battery Monitoring Sensor is clamped directly to the negative terminal of the battery and grounds to the vehicle at the chassis ground connection point through the negative battery cable and eyelet. It is part of the negative battery cable and cannot be serviced separately. External customer loads must only be connected to the vehicle at the customer battery connection point. If an external customer load is connected at the negative battery post, the Battery Monitoring Sensor accuracy cannot be guaranteed. It is recommended that the Battery Monitoring Sensor pole clamp is not removed unless a batteryreplacement is required. Should the battery need to be isolated, this should be done by disconnecting the ground eyelet at the chassis ground. Body Control Module (BCM)The BCM monitors the Battery Monitoring Sensor and provides the PCM with battery state of charge information."

I believe many of experienced what you I began experiencing similar about 2 years ago. I believe it was due to 15b04 CSP - Diagnose and Charge Battery. The following modules were reprogrammed as part of 15b04: Direct Current/Direct Current (DC/DC) converterInstrument Panel Cluster (IPC)Gateway Module (GWM)Front Control / Display Interface Module (FCDIM), if equippedAfter I got that update on 6/10/2015, I began noticing similar changes which I attributed to the update. My battery was replaced on 7/18/2015 and the changes noted still were occuring. I never did time how long the center display stays on before one gets the System shutting down message. Ford possibly changed the programming to do different things once the car is shut down based on the SOC of the 12 V battery like how long the radio / center display stays on. It would be easy for Ford to tell us what the SOC of the 12 V battery currently is (in Ah) vs the Ah of a new battery. That would certainly help in deciding when to replace the battery. I'll have to look at DC/DC module with ForScan to see if there is anything on the SOC and so forth on the 12 V battery.

Our battery has very low CCA and very low reserve capacity compared to most car batteries. A bigger battery would certainly allow for more reserve capacity if there is a battery drain (headlights left on and so forth). And a deep cycle battery would allow a greater depth of discharge cycles before failing. But all lead acid batteries will fail. Perhaps a battery like the Optima would last longer but it likely costs 2X as much and Optima doesn't make one for the C-Max. Also, one has to remember that the C-Max has metering on the 12 V battery (coulomb counting). "State-of-charge (SOC) estimation is one of the most important issues in battery applications. ... Among which, accumulation of the currents flowing into and out from a battery is one of the common indicators that used to estimate battery SOC, namely coulomb counting method or ampere-hour counting method." I don't know what algorithms might be affected by using a different battery in the C-Max. I believe the DC/DC converter adjusts the charging current and voltage based on SOC of the 12 V battery. It may be as simple as adjusting the AH rating in the algorithms for the installed battery with a Ford Scan Tool. The life of the 12 V battery should be extended by applying the appropriate charge to the 12 V battery,

You might want to replace it as with the C-Max there is virtually no warning like slow cranking in a conventional car that indicates a dying battery. In the C-Max if battery voltage is sufficient to operate the control modules, the car starts. There is no starter motor for the 12 V battery to turn. When my C-Max wouldn't start in my garage on two consecutive days (without jump starting), I had the battery replaced by the dealer. Your battery might last another 6 months, 1 year or 1 day. :)​ As a hedge against the inconvenience of a no start, I carry a set of jumper cables in the storage compartment under the driver's seat. Others carry a small "jump start" battery. Of course most will likely roll the dice and hope the battery no start condition is at home. Yes, the expected life goes slightly down in extreme cold because the CCA declines with cold temperatures. There's a point reached when the declining battery capacity as a battery ages (is cycled) can not produce enough CCA in extreme cold to turn the starter. "Heat is a killer of all batteries, but high temperatures cannot always be avoided. This is the case with a battery inside a laptop, a starter battery under the hood of a car and stationary batteries in a tin shelter under the hot sun. As a guideline, each 8°C (15°F) rise in temperature cuts the life of a sealed lead acid battery in half. This means that a VRLA battery for stationary applications specified to last for 10 years at 25°C (77°F) would only live 5 years if continuously exposed to 33°C (92°F) and 30 months if kept at a constant desert temperature of 41°C (106°F). Once the battery is damaged by heat, the capacity cannot be restored." - http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_heat_and_harsh_loading_reduces_battery_life

I forgot to mention that the poll is somewhat useless without the climate conditions. High ambient temperature shortens battery life and cooler ambient temperature extends battery life.

2 1/2 years in Phoeniz, AZ. Very hot weather "kills" car batteries.

My post was lost in the hickup the site had. Here's the two attachments i discussed. So, you should be able to test the headlamp assembly using the wiring diagram and multimeter for a problem with the circuity in the assembly. I don't want to run through it again.

The map upgrade sd chips are used by the APIM to display the GPS data. I believe the GPS module is separate. The APIM software has to be at a certain level for the newer chips to work. You can check the level on the system software display page and should be able to find the appropriate level required for the chip to work correctly. A quick search shows Sync v3.8 should work with the A7 and should show up on the display as 15128 or higher level. If level is good, then gps module could be bad. The OP needs to look at his service order and report exactly what it says was done. I believe this is the latest update for Sync 2. Attached is a img of the appropriate dispay in my car showing 15128.

What the SA may be saying is that there is a short to ground diagnostic trouble code in the control module (likely BCM), and have traced the short to the headlight assembly. I can't look it up until next week. A couple of thoughts, you can buy the assembly for less than $416. Before I would replace it, I would remove it and troubleshoot the assembly for the short to ground. Again, I won't be able to look at the manual until next week. The dealer won't try to find issue / fix assembly. They only replace parts.

David, does Ford owners website show that your 2014 is covered under12M02 - extended 5 year warranty on the APIM (includes software updates). If so, you need to pursue this under 12M02. I don't know whether MY 2014 was included as MY 2013s are included.

Although this is not the ESP contract, I have attached the latest pdf of Ford ESP Premium Care that I could find. Perhaps early years were different. But, when you look under high tech, it clearly says "SYNC® MyFord Touch® (Excludes SoftwareUpgrades)" David, you need to get the contract you signed and read it to see what is excluded. 64172_671b_FordPremium_2017_v5.pdf

F61 Page 204 of the 2014 Owners Manual

Nowhere could I find that the ESP covers software upgrades to the navigation. Below is what Ford says about the A8 card. I assume Ford said the same about the A7. Some e-bay sellers indicate that the software may need updated for the A7 chip. "Your vehicle may require a software update prior to installing this update. If your software version is greater than or equal to 12285, this update is compatible. If your software version is 10337, 11038, 11063, 11081, 11134, 12023, 12156 – please visit owner.ford.com or owner.lincoln.com to update your SYNC software. If your software version is 10212, 10308, or 12058 – your vehicle requires a software update from a dealer."

I think the test cycles are based on how the "normal" driver accelerates, brakes, and so forth. EPA has made changes to the cycles including adding cycles over time. If one could show that Hybrid owners drive differently than the non-hybrid owners, perhaps additional cycles could be added just for hybrids. But IMO, the acceleration at 2 bars is a lot slower than most drive (I even see Prius drivers accelerating quickly). :) It appears that the fuelly data supports the C-Max, Prius, and Prius V EPA fuel economy numbers. Remember a few years ago when the EPA fined Kia $100 million (iirc) for over reporting their FE numbers. We'll see if consumers can get the Niro and Ioniq FE they claim. EPA likely won't change their current methodolgies if the consumers get reasonably close to the EPA ratings especially for hybrids.

I took a look at the EPA FE test data for the 2017 C-Max, Priis, Niro and Ioniq for comparative purposes. Based on the data, I constructed the following table of "expected" FE for the Priis, Niro, and Ioniq based on the differences between the road load HP coefficients for the vehicle ahieving the highest FE used in the dyno FE testing. Of course, one can always operate vehicles to achieve more / less FE that expected and the oveall efficiency of the powertrain will affect actual FE. The interesting observation is that the Prius and Prius V numbers below are in sync with the Priis EPA ratings. Not so with the Ioniq and Niro. The Priis and C-Max data also appears to be in sync with the average FE being shown in Fuelly. For example, if you drive the C-Max and get 40 mpg in the C-Max, you might expect to get 48 mpg in the Ioniq, 44 in the Niro and so forth based on the difference between the C-Max and other vehicles RLHP. Kia does IIRC claim there ICE is 40% efficient. I don't believe the C-Max or Priis engines are that efficient. Time should tell as people report their FE to Fuelly. This data is based on the RLHP curve data attached (sorry I can't upload in gallery as I reached my limit so I have to attach).

So, your refrigerant charge is likely okay. One would think that the dealer did check the charge pressures when running. No, I don't know what to check other than the resistance values of the sensors especially the evaporator core temperature sensor. The best thing to do would be to drive to the dealer when this happens and leave car running so the the SA / tech can see what is happening when it happens Do you notice the issue to happen more frequently orquicker timewise when you have higher humidity? Are you covered under a Ford extended warranty for the AC? If you are, you may be able to open a case with Ford. I don't know what rights the customer has under extended warranties to get a problem like this fixed. The evaporator core (under the dash) removes water vapor from the air. What is suppose to happen is that when the air across the evaporator core reaches a temperature just above freezing, the compressor is turned off and cycled such that the water being removed doesn't freeze on the coils of the evaporator core. If the sensor is faulty, ice can build up on the coils and reduce the cooling capacity. Thus, the temp of the air coming out of the vents will rise and air flow will likely be reduced. Eventually, ICE can virtually block all the air flowing through the core or enough such that the AC system could shut down or operate at significantly reduced cooling capacity due to the refrigerant pressure not being proper. I would think there should be Diagnostic Trouble Codes when this happens. But since this is not a critical system, the DTCs may be cleared and not be saved once the ICE melts and the AC system starts to operate properly. I don't know whether you are aware of the ForScan App for smartphones for monitoring Ford data - IMO, a bargain for about $30 including an OBDII adapter. I will check the data available to see what AC system modules data is available for monitoring like the evaporator core temperature.

With respect to the AC, did the dealer run the normal diagnostic checks? Sounds to me like the evaporator may be icing up. There are a number of potential causes. Try this: get a thermometer. Start the car and turn the AC on maximun. Measure the temperature out of one of the dash outlets. After a minute or so, the temperature should be less than 50F and likely lower. I'll look up what temp you should expect. See this post for temperature out the center vent.

Read the attachment "thumping". Thumping (1).pdf

Now you are describing something different. There are hybrids built with two clutches but are not really a DCT. Here's a link to Nissan's block diagram of a hybrid using two clutches and a snip attached below. This could be the way the Niro is built where the torque converter of a conventional transmission is replaced by the electric motor and two clutches. Then, your statement makes sense. But then the Niro does not have a true dual clutch transmission where odd gears are on one shaft and even gears on other shaft. So, we really need to see a diagram of the Niro's transmission.

It doen't matter whether the traction motor is connected to the drive shaft or like shown in the Honda video (it's always connected to the wheels in the video also). Niro ICE torque is 109 lb ft, motor torque is 125 lb ft, and total torque is 195 lb ft. A quick search shows dry DCTs greater than 195 lb ft. It is also hard to believe that KIA is limiting the ICE torque because they put in a "sub-standard" DCT. Regardless if they did, the total is speced at 195 ft lb. I completely understand how a DCT works as I owned one. You are missing the point though. What I'm questioning is the reasoning behind your statement: "I'm fairly sure that Hyundai/Kia also limits the acceleration, even in Sport mode, to protect the transmission and to keep the clutch from slipping -- that the transmission cannot handle (or at least that Hyundai/Kia don't allow it to handle) the full amount of torque the electric motor can provide" The electric motor torque does not affect the clutches. If you meant ICE instead of electric motor affecting the clutches, then KIA is stupid for putting in a sub-standard DCT.